boots dms

Ah you beat me to it, just dug out my Clothing Regulations Pam. No.13 covering ACF & where CCF is mentioned it is qualified by Army Section.

Thanks very much anyway.

Just after posting I noticed an original thread concerning these,(Doh.):red:,which answers all my questions,ie not Adult for the designation but Army department.And even the NP 8901 picture quoted.Perhaps I ought to check the threads before posting next time,there is,nt much thats not covered on here.

Re the attachment, I was wondering what the designation AD after the garment description referred to.Could it mean adult issue as its a size 5,fairly large.I know these were used by the Royal Marines in the seventies and eighties,there is a picture on the net( I am sure most of you have seen it) of the smock being worn in the Falkland islands by Naval party 8901.These smocks although intended for cadet use and widely used as such are a good little garment and I suppose found uses other than their original intended use.

Both up for sale already I see?

Yes afraid so , got to have a bit of a clearout so last in first to go.Having been made redundant three times in the last 8 years and now only part time working I can,t seem to warrant keeping all this kit.These two items I aquired recently,the first for ages, will probably flog off some more pieces soon,although I don,t really have a large collection,plus her indoors was,nt to keen on me keeping these.Shame really but thats life.

Hi

Does anyone know when the makers name on combat clothing labels eg windproof smock etc,was replaced by the designation CT followed by letters and numbers etc.I do have an example on a genuine issued smock,however I can,t make out the numbers? letters ? following CT. If that makes sense.:undecided:.Thanks.

Thanks all for comments, and wdbikemad thanks for info on [sas] smock.

Couple of items I could,nt resist , even though well worn and repaired in the case of this 1960 pattern dpm smock size 2 (james smith and co .)This fills a gap in the collection until something better comes along (finances allowing.).I really like these first pattern smocks,both in design and colours.This has a new zip fitted and is well battered including a couple of patches and what appears to be a long slash repair to the back.I know when kit was handed in if it was deemed unusable it was common practice to slash them and class them as rags ,therefore un reyclable or re sellable.Having said that in the seventies combat clothing seemed to be reissued over and over and repaired constantly before replacement , unlike later when it could be more easily replaced.

Also got this at the same time ,I know unremarkable,but even so a nice probably early nineties smock combat windproof , sometimes referred to as an sas smock.This was an issue item and has a ct number as opposed to makers name.I know these were popular private purchase items and prefered to the arctic type with wired hood.Does anyone know were these only issued to special forces(hence sas smock) or were they issued to any other units also for whatever reason.I know the arctic version was intended for winter warefare (norway) but was used in virtually every other theatre (unofficially).Anyway couple of nice additions to the collection for a very low price.Ha Ha.

Theres something about a good well used item like this , especially a rarer smock as this one. A nice example thats seen some life. Most of the kit I collect is used , some well used like your Para smock , I only have a couple of fairly, almost new items.

They do not fetch the same prices as the olive 60 patts by and large - iirc one sold for £160 late last year. This is versus a size 9 olive smock selling for £350+ on eBay some months ago!:shocked:

Ha, thats good to know I have two size 5 olive 60 patt smocks and a pair of size 2 trousers,all the later pattern ie oval arm patches etc.I am very fond of these,one smock is virtually new £15.00 at Beltring,the other and the trousers ,are slightly faded,but can,t complain for £3.50 at a local summer boot fare about three years ago.Shan,t be parting with these.As an aside I can remember back in the seventies the 60 pattern olive smocks were ten a penny , I had one I wore to destruction on my motorcycle.

A very large quantity of 60 pattern DPM smocks and trousers were made by James Smith & Cookson & Clegg Ltd between 1970 and 71 under at least 4 separate contracts.......and judging by the number surviving today, they are not all that rare..........but they hold the distinction of being the very 1st issue pattern DPM combat garments........I unearthed a new Size 8 today that I didn't even know I had........[ATTACH=CONFIG]72693[/ATTACH]

Funnily enough,I sold a size 8 about four years ago on e bay and got about £90.00.If I remember rightly I paid about £30.00 for it.But my biggest regret was selling two size 5 around the same time , in retrospect I would still have them now regardless of value.

Just spotted this on e bay,£50.00 starting bid or £250.00 !!! buy it now,PHEW. I would like one, but not that much.These really seem to go for very big money these days.

Whilst i have got the camera out I thought I would post this as it may be of interest although its not actual issue kit.It is a smock windproof olive green from Springfields supplies I obtained it several years ago.It is on close inspection exactly the same cut and material to the issue windproofs I have.(maybe made by an mod supplier for private purchase and civilian use). I brought it as I have allways liked the windproof design and comfort,and as a fairly serious walker its ideal,its remained 100% proofed even in heavy downpours.It also appealed to me as although I greatly admire the windproof smock and indeed own a couple in the collection,I am a bit adverse to wearing dpm for walking the downs.

Picked this early 1968 pattern dpm smock up recently,what attracted me to it was the modification of the cuffs,using hose tops as a substitute . I can say hose tops with some certainty as I have a couple of pairs and the knit is different to the issue socks(the usual donar).No label , but I reckon size 5 as its identical to my others.

I'm pleased to say I've bought nothing simply due to the supposed value, only because it was either reasonable, I needed it for the book or I just liked it.......:-D

 

Some of my acquisitions are clearly now rather attractive, but I'm fortunately not in need of the money and would far rather swap than sell (the odd bit goes, but only if unnecessary and I have several of them)...........is this a bad thing....?

No, not at all a bad thing , I entirely agree with your sentiments. I on the other hand, as I say rather foolishly, sold a couple of items hoping to make a few bob when in fact I would have been better off keeping them.so from now on the pleasure from possesing and interest of items will overide any financial temptations.Much to the wifes dismay,lol.

I think I have around 4 DPM 60 pattern smocks (Sizes 1, 3, 5 and 8 ?) plus a similar number of trousers....all but one mint, and none cost me more than £30 each, all within the last 3 years........perhaps I was just lucky....

 

Although they are historical, from the perspective of being the first ISSUE DPM garments (circa 1970-71) and of limited production span (a little over a year), I'd personally far rather seek out the pre-60 pattern 1950's era combat clothing, arguably far rarer today than any DPM 60 pattern.....

 

Each to their own however.......

 

Top of my "rocking horse" list, is a "Combat Smock" in green gabardine from 1951 to early 52 manufacture.....I have the hood, trousers and parka, but to date, the smock eludes me......I have around 3 in sateen, but none in the original gabardine, far lighter in weight.......

I have two of the later pattern olive green 1960 pattern smocks size 5,one mint £16.00 at Beltring 6 years ago and one used but good £3.50 at a local boot fair.Yet on e bay these go for very high prices, but as I have learnt from past experience these will remain in my possesion. Personally I think collecting this sort thing should be for the pleasure and interest rather than any financial gain.And what can be valuable at one time can drop without warning in the future.I suppose it all boils down to where our own personal preferences and interests lay.

Who spotted the size 6 DPM P60 smock that went for a cool £107 a few days ago?

 

Whilst it's a less desirable size, it makes the size 7 one I got earlier this year for £35 off eBay (badly listed) look like a relative bargain.

I was watching that size 6 as well, which was why I was suprised the size 5 still got no bids,as somebody allways seems to have plenty of disposable income and or a desperate need to own the aforementioned. I would dearly like to replace my foolishly sold 1960 pattern , but not at that price unfortunatly,( lottery win being the exception):-D

Whilst discussing price of dpm I have been watching a very good 1960 pattern dpm smock in a size 5 on ebay.(only £95.00)!!, I must admit I am tempted,but too afraid of the Mrs finding out and the subsequent fallout,lol. Ironically I used to have two of these which I aquired for about £20 or £30 if I recall and the sold them a couple of years later on e bay for not very much more.Something I regret very much as I have a real soft spot for these early dpm smocks. Still we live and learn as they say.

As a postscript to the above , these seem to go for very low prices now on e bay , where as a couple of years ago they could fetch up to £50 pounds or so , even well used.

Nice example. I have an arctic smock 180/104 (metric sizing.) and that is in the earlier lighter ,might I say softer feel material.This has the field dressing pocket as well as the other arm pocket, but it also has front and rear rank tabs.

I have a couple of "Beaver" smocks, all early manufacture.........seemingly, the company name is still trading today (along with "Windsmoor" of 60 pattern suit manufacture) although both are no doubt today simply a "name" rather than the original manufacturing concern.........

 

I think there were probably fewer manufacturers of 68 pattern gear than there were of the earlier 1950's Korean-era garments.......I am hoping to put a list together of all known manufacturers of the various patterns in the book.........

I remember not too long ago seeing an outdoor civilian field or shooting jacket on e- bay that was described as made by Beavers of Bolton,bought as new but too large,hence sale. So as you say it seems ( unlike lots of other mod contractors) they are still going in some form,albeit probably not the original concern.

Best not to show the wife...mine is now numb to the whole milsurp malarky! She has, in fact, gotten quite good at opening the mail and describing the recently arrived items when I am away travelling...

 

I remember your post of the size 5 smock you mention...two size 5s in good nick for £15 is a steal.

 

From what I can tell - Beaver of Bolton only had one contract run of 68 smocks. I have never seen trousers by this manufacturer.

Nope, nor me, though I,m pretty sure I have a hood stashed away with some others that was Beavers, I,ll have to check some rainy afternoon.( which is probably quite soon).

And another lesser known manufacturer...super condition and decent size:

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]69661[/ATTACH]

Nice smock. I obtained a size 5 Beavers of Bolton which I posted on here a little while ago.Then blow me a couple of weeks later I came across another by this manafacturer also size 5 in good condition,and just had to buy it ( for a tenner:laugh:).My wife thinks I,m mad,and shes probably right.lol.

Ah ! I HAVE seen another such smock factory-fitted with the earlier '60 pattern drawcords (at Sabre Sales a couple of years ago now)......can't remember the maker but it had all the signs of an early production example, circa 71-73......

 

I guess this was a simple variation by a manufacturer using up stock of the earlier cord (usually cut from a huge roll).....

 

I have LOADS of NOS 68 pattern smocks and trousers in storage, of all dates, variations and colours........many will be featured in the book in due course........:-D

Thanks, i must admit I find the whole subject quite fascinating,and your book is something I look forward to seeing.

Theres a nice early 1968 pattern smock on e bay item no 221153153932.

Looking at the pictures it appears to have the old thicker drawcords as per the 1960 pattern smock.( I did,nt copy pictures as i am not sure of copyright etc.).I have seen many of these smocks but never one with these drawcords.Just thought it may be of interest.I did bid myself but its gone above what I would pay ,plus I already have 5 of these all size 5 in various shades pattern etc , time to call a halt methinks.The auction finishes at 1820

You are not wrong !! The size reference quoted was the NATO sizing that featured on labels (in addition to the UK "numbered" sizes) from as early as 66 onwards but more commonly from the late 60s when items were NSN coded.......however, the actual sizes didn't change.......a 1 to 3 were basically "small, medium and large" within a specific height range, followed by 4 to 6, and 7 to 9 (each range getting gradually taller......and wider)...........

 

Remember though, that as an overall jacket the garments were cut to fit OVER undergarments.......so should, in theory, be reasonably generous........:-D

 

Sizes do vary however, between different manufacturers, and used garments, particularly those made from cotton-drill, may have shrunk in earlier washing cycles............all worth bearing in mind......

I see, thanks very much for info, there is so much more to this subject than I realised.