Barney

Steve, the brake rings look great. The old lathe is interesting, no tailstock and the toolpost looks as though it belongs on a capstan lathe; presumably it was intended to do a simular job as you have done on the brake rings with repeatable accuracy on large batch machining. John

Steve Most of the spinning videos on YouTube are for domed shapes but this one is for a pot shape and it's about the size you require. Hope it helps. John

Steve This spinning is a bit big for your lathe but I found this video very interesting for the number of different tools used, the two man operation and how they form up, roll and flatten the rim, shown near the end. A long video I admit but if you get bored you can study the pictures on the wall John

Watching this video it is interesting to see how much the finished cylinder wall thickness is reduced from the original plate thickness in the drawing process. Compare the plate at 0.32 and the cylinder, after cutting, at 2.11. I estimate nearly half the thickness has gone. The Stanley Brothers in America built their steam car boilers by drawing. The boiler was 18" in diameter by 13" high and the plate started at 1/2" thick. After drawing the wall thickness was about 3/16" and the brothers thought this too thin a safely margin to use with the 600psi that these cars worked at. In order to satisfy their concern they wound three wraps of carbon steel wire around the boiler and welded the ends to the shell. In a test the unwound boiler exploded at 1,200psi but the wire wound boiler withstood 1,800psi at which point the expanded and ferruled copper tube ends started to leak. John

Sorry Sean I should have said 107E not 100E which had a side valve engine. The 107E had a 100E body and the new 997cc engine that was later to be fitted in the slope back widowed 105E Anglia. I have now added an addendum to my original post. John

That's an interesting article Flandersflyer. Wikipedia states that only 7 out of 140 devices tested under strict conditions improved the engines efficiency. Of course the designers and manufacturers knew this but their continuing sales relied on the fact that no man would admit that he had been duped by a fuel economy device. I the early days of motoring history carburettors were very basic and the old up-draught types did waste a lot of fuel due to the inefficiency of their design so Hulley’s device might well have made some slight improvement at that time. I remember that the Ford 100E of the late 1950’s had a Solex or Zenith carburettor and the Austin /Morris vehicles had the brilliant SU carburettor and the difference in the fuel consumption figures was surprising. The A35 and the Morris Minor could easily get 40mpg whilst Ford’s 100E could barely get 30mpg. I can remember Ford’s efforts in trying to keep pace with Austin/Morris. Ford’s 100E economy device was a button fitted in the floor right next to the throttle pedal. With the natural position of the foot pushing down on the pedal it would contact the button and stop the throttle being pushed more than half way down. To accelerate harder meant an awkward twisting the foot to one side to bypass the button. Later the 4 cylinder ‘V’ engined Ford Transit was also a thirsty beast, about 18mpg - less with a big load, and Ford attempted to overcome this by fitting an upright facing tee in the fuel line next to the carburettor and taking a pipe back to the petrol tank, the idea being to relive the pulsating pressure of the mechanical fuel pump on the float needle valve. I presume it must have worked to some extent as Ford fitted it to some of their other engines. Eventually Ford brought out their own carburettor roughly based on the SU but in order to get around the SU patents it turned out to be a right abomination and was eventually only fitted on the 2ltr Cortina Mk5 ----- I think. John Please note. As pointed out by Sean N below. The 100E had a 1172cc side valve engine which by its design would certainly had a high fuel consumption. I should have said 107E (Prefect) which had the body of a 100E but with the 997cc overhead valve engine that was later fitted to the slope back windowed 105E Anglia.

Quote; ....... and well done John B.! Thanks Tony. The date of the patent, 9th May 1927, also answers your question as to which manifold , cast or alloy, is the oldest. Hulley went on with a G. Holland to further perfect his design with a new patent in 1930. Extract from Espacenet 345729-A is referenced by 1 patents. 345,729. Mixing fans ; admission devices for extra air. HULLEY, W. and HOLLAND, G., Trafalgar House, Watton, Hertfordshire. Jan. 20, 1930, No. 1960. [Class 7 (ii).] One or more suction - actuatec mixing fans are supported by rings m, n, forming inner races for ball-bearings housed in the wall of a flange-shaped fitting f inserted between the flanges of the induction pipe and the carburetter. The rings m, n are of the same bore as the pipe. A gauze screen l is clamped between the outer end race on the engine side of the device and a lip k formed on the member f. The race at the opposite end is located by screwed ring u provided with incisions w on its outer face to facilitate adjustment. When a number of fan s are used they may all rotate in the same direction or the blades of alternate fans may be oppositely inclined.; A spring-loaded extra air admission valve 12, provided with an adjustable perforated cover-plate 14, may be fitted to the periphery of the member f. The ball races are lubricated by a lubricator 17. The surfaces of the fan blades may be perforated, ribbed, or corrugated longitudinally or transversely. I can remember aspects of this design repeated in the 1950/60's as a result of sharp fuel price rises stemming from the Suez Crisis. John

To make things easier I have copied the Espacenet patent page here. John

The manifold gasket device reminds me of a group of articles that come under the general term of Fuel Saving Accessories. Over the years many weird and wonderful designs have been produced, none of which worked other than for the intended purpose of making the seller rich. Each time there was afuel price rise another batch would come onto the market. Most were designed to be fitted in the inlet side and comprised of gaskets containing spiral air bleeds to swirl the mixture or brass gauzes to break up the fuel droplets; others consisted of a venturi shaped to accelerate and swirl the fuel mixture. Once the inlet side had been saturated they started on the exhaust side. One expensive design was the ‘Jefferator’ and this mushroom shaped thing screwed into a hole tapped into the exhaust manifold and it was designed to bleed air into the exhaust stream. Another expensive design was a chromium plated tube with a swirly fan inside that fitted on the tailpipe, it looked good even if it didn’t save any fuel. Speaking of swirly things I wonder if your device originally had fan blades fitted on the shaft and was designed to swirl the mixture and break up the fuel droplets. Engines burnt a lot of fuel in the early days so anything that would improve the efficiency, however bizarre, would no doubt have been tried. The new transmission brake shoes look really great; machining them should be an interesting project. John

Here is an alternative home made tool for getting a fine polish on a bore, it can also be used as a glaze buster in cylinders. I find it works well using 120g emery with paraffin for the final polish. John

Hi Steve, Another brilliant bit of pattern making. 'One Shot' drain cleaner is 91% Sulphuric Acid and is available in 1ltr bottles from eBay or any good plumbers merchants. John

Hi Tony, Please can you answer the following question? Tim's post refers to brake drums. Are they full drums as per classic pre disc brake cars or are they just rings bolted to the inside of the wheel? Thanks. John

Some agricultural equipment had hard felt seals fitted in these deflectors; they didn’t stop the oil leaking out but they slowed it down somewhat. Some engine manufacturers used hard felt seals on their timing covers, rear main bearings and gearbox input / output shafts right into the 1960’s. John

Until ball joints replaced kingpins (around the 1970’s / 80's, if I remember correctly) a lot of lorries and heavier cars had three piece ball or needle roller thrust races. Normally the thrust race was located in a recess in the upper flange of the lower kingpin bush and a tin cover, trapped between the race and the axle, fitted over the bush flange. Steel shims were fitted between the axle and the top bush so that there was zero clearance in order to stop the balls hammering dents in the races; which is why ball races are normally preloaded. The tin cover was not a tight fit so lot of grease was required to keep out the muck, hence the 1000 mile grease–up and check levels services that were still a requirement on some new vehicles well into the 1960’s. John

Possibly replaced in service with whatever was in stock at the time and adapted to fit; remember there was a war on. John

I understood that wooden wheels had steel tyres shrunk on in order to tighten the joints in the fellows and spokes to provide a rigid wheel;is this not the case with artillery style wheels? With old tyres does the rust build up on the rim stretch the tyre over time; hence the reason that they are loose when refitted on grit blasted rims? John

I found this fabulous greaser on American eBay; Circa 1914 replica --- only £43.00 each :wow: John

Hi Steve, You say of the Thorny steering wheel that “It was originally a steel tube rim surrounding a cast steel centre” Which poses a question; will your new aluminum wheel have the same strength as the original? John

Steve, From my days in motor engineering I remember the instructor explaining the forces on the crankshaft, some of which were caused by balance issues. It’s a long time ago so some of my terminology may be incorrect and I have probably forgotten some of the finer points but I hope this will give an idea of the forces involved; please accept my apologies if you are already aware of the following. The crankshaft balance is affected by rotational and longitudinal forces. Rotational forces are akin to front wheel balance problems where an out of balance wheel will shake the steering wheel at say 40mph but at 50mph the shake will disappear. I’m sure older drivers have experienced this at some time and if I remember correctly the maximum imbalance occurred at what, I think, is termed ‘The Critical Whirling Speed’. Engine manufacturers fitted the crankshafts with counterbalance weights in order to raise or lower the Critical Whirling Speed out of harms way because it is not possible to get perfect balance in a piston driven engine. In order to minimise the shake even further some manufacturers of luxury cars fitted one or more unbalanced countershafts geared and timed to the crankshaft; mass produced cars, by comparison, just had a rubber damped crankshaft front pulley. Presumably, with the Thornycroft crankshaft running at only 1400 rpm it didn’t cause any problems so they didn’t consider it necessary to fit balance weights to the crankshaft although they may have drilled the flywheel to achieve some degree of balance from there. I would suggest that you attempt to get the piston weights as near as possible to that of the originals as heavier pistons may move the Critical Whirling Speed. Longitudinal forces are akin to two children on a sea-saw; the heavier one will go down faster and take more effort to raise. If the piston weight on the crankshaft is heavier at one end than the other then an out of balance force will arise along the length of the crankshaft and this is why the pistons are all kept to the same weight in each engine. Of course the weight of all the con-rods should also be the same as they contribute to the rotating mass and balance. I don’t remember being given any data regarding what is an acceptable tolerance but whatever it might be pails into insignificance in the following true account. A chap brought an early six cylinder ohv Humber Super Snipe into the garage and explained that he had brought it at a local auction where a recently deceased farmer’s effects were being sold off. The car was in lovely condition but it wasn’t running too well and sounded as if one cylinder of the six cylinder engine was ‘missing’. We traced the fault to no5 cylinder and removed the spark plug, which was soaked in oil; a compression test revealed no compression so we suspected a hole in the piston. We removed the cylinder head to find that there was no hole in the piston; in fact, there was no piston or con-rod and the crankshaft journal had a length of leather belt wound around it secured with a jubilee clip to block up the journal’s oil feed. I should have said that we already suspected some foul play as the push rods for this cylinder were also missing. Shortly after one of our fitters met the deceased farmer’s mechanic who explained that the old boy had not checked the engine oil for some time and it had got very low. His son had borrowed the car, tore it off to Yarmouth and knocked the big end out. The mechanic said that as the old boy only drove the car to Norwich City football matches he didn’t want to run to the expense of a crank regrind so had instructed him to remove the ‘rod and piston; it had been running like this for about five years!!! Your new pistons look great. John

Steve, If you fit the stepped rings with the step downwards they won’t work as scraper rings unless you machine your pistons with the oil relief groove and drain holes which are necessary to return the oil to the inside of the piston. Without the oil relief they will just act as compression rings. Please see Wally Dugan’s post #1022 for diagram of the oil relief grove and drain hole positions. (Centre picture, top row) As you still have some work to do on the pistons it would certainly be worth the small amount of extra time taken to balance them. John

Yes, for the Gosling family to be heading a National WW1 Parade up The Mall, in sight of Queen and Country, would be a fitting accolade for your magnificent dedication and achievements in returning these lorries to running order. John

Steve I was wondering how you intended to build the pattern. Do you intend to cast a whole hollow onion and then cut the side out or make a more complex pattern to include the cut out (thought; is this possible)? Can you see how the original onion was made? John

During my apprenticeship there was an old boy, Fred, in the garage who would only ever use Duco Goldsize on metal to metal joints and on copper asbestos head gaskets. I never saw joint that he had made fail. Fred had a hatred of Red Hermetite, Sunday mechanics jam as he used to call it. I initially wondered why until I had to scrape a whole tube of the stuff off an Austin Mini timing cover and engine front plate after the owners botched oil seal replacement. Best regards. John

Hi Terry, Many thanks for the sand core info. Best regards. John

Hi Tharper, I found your posts very interesting and the finished casting and etched plates are a credit to you. I wonder if you could you answer some questions regarding sand cores? Do you use Petrobond for the cores? What temperature do you bake the cores at and for how long? Do you make any allowances for aluminium which has a high shrinkage rate as I have read in an old book that the cores need to be softer than for other metals to stop contraction cracking of the aluminium? Thank you. Best regards. John