mammoth

In an interesting twist the previous owner of the body is now residing in Australia and has bought a rebuilt RAF type. (along with a model Q Thornycroft) I wonder if he wants the body back?

When you do return them for soldering can you get some pics of how they do it please.

Here is the 1912 catalogue for both J and K types. How the K got to be rated for a higher load than the J  was something to do with having larger wheels, which are close to the later standard sizes of 720 front and 850 rear versus the J which had non standard sizes possibly of their own manufacture. The extra 5 cwt of weight of the chasssis could be accounted by the special differential, torque tube and larger wheels but also possibly heavier springs.

catalogue J.pdf

catalogue J.pdfHere is the 1912 catalogue for J and K types.

Of note is the petrol tank under the seat with pressure feed to the carburettor

The corrected title of this thread gave the game away that there was some confusion about the appliance's identity, firstly because of entries on the Dennis invoice and secondly because of non matching entries on NSW Fire Brigade (NSWFB) surviving records.

Frank Cerutti of Townsville has a very nice 1917 delivered Dennis N model and way back he visited Surrey and got copies of the Dennis chassis lists. With these in hand a perusal of records at the Museum of Fire give a good demonstration of the fallibility of handwriting, and especially so with the numbers '3' and '5', as well as the trap of being led astray by wonky primary sources (the invoice).

The upshot is that I can now definitely say that the two appliances (or 'cars' as Dennis called them) delivered to NSWFB in January 1912 were 3033 (mine) and 3035.

NSWFB records state the second appliance was 3055 whereas in reality that appliance had a different engine and went to Great Western Railway, and not to Australia.

Accordingly the NSWFB record of 3035 should read 3033 and the NSWFB record of 3055  should read 3035, in which case all the records of engine and body numbers align in both sets of records.

Phew.

I am reading a book on the genisis of the Rolls Royce Merlin engine. The author states that in 1915 the typical petrol was of 40 octane (vs at least 90 today)

Ian's lights are now allocated to a Leyland hard rubber resto. Any further information on these would be most welcome.

On 6/25/2021 at 7:51 AM, andypugh said:

But I doubt that is what is actually in the rear axles, as a different manufacturer is mentioned. 

(I have something of an interest in David Brown, my late dad started with them at 14 straight out of school, and left 49 years later having worked his way up from fitter, via the drawing office, to service manager and senior commissioning engineer)

The article is quite specific:- the axle  is made by Seldon (a truck manufacturer) and the worm gear (and hence presumably the differential) is made by David Brown of Huddersfield.

I have heard of David Brown being involved in USA production but this is the first time I have seen such a specific mention.

Very unusual for the time to have unit construction. Syracuse was also the home of Brockway and other truck builders.

Superb example of the pattern maker's craft. Perhaps there should be another one as a stand alone exhibit!

Yep certainly rare in Australia, good work Andrew.

Stand to be corrected by our US friends but the 'Standard B Liberty 3 ton' truck" was the generic label for those  trucks that the USA government contracted  to 72 different manufacturers to a standard design in 1917;. . The design was entirely new to avoid entanglements regarding patents held by various manufacturers. Inevitably there were detail differences between each factory. More than 13,000 shipped overseas  and as many for internal use. Usually wood wheels 

source Flash and Fizzle - Rise and Fall of replublic truck Co

Main thing is NOT to use oil with EP additives as that is corrosive to yellow metals.

An accelerator pump only helps to get the revs up when you push your foot down and the effect is momentary. It won't create horsepower where there is none.  You could fiddle with tuning the carb and ignition timing but otherwise the choice would be to either substitute a slower diff ratio or treat 4th as overdrive - to be engaged only when the going is good. On the other hand your engine may be worn in which case a cylinder compression test would be the starting point.

I do have a phase converter to run smaller machines off 15amp supply, and although our rural domestic supply is supposed to be 60 amps at 240v there is a 600m run from the supply transformer. Turning the wick up on the welder results in diminishing returns telling me that voltage drop is going to be an issue driving a big motor. Shame is that a 3 phase supply is available literally across the road. A few years down the track batteries might become much cheaper at which time going stand alone solar will be very tempting.

Thrust washer is there, just not shown. There is a gap for a felt seal, same as just shown on Ed1617's WDJ Thornycroft.

One swarf tray is missing on my DSG so I will have to make one as well. Suds drain into a trough sitting on the floor at the rear.

Removal of the spoke bolts was slowed by nuts that had been welded to the hub, otherwise easy.

14 spokes with the bolts going between the spokes, not through them and shiney steel on the hub!

The two parts of the hub were an easy press to part,

I was minded to follow the suggestion to mount the job on a lathe and remove the weld with a parting tool. The wheel was too big for the gap so it was out with the angle grinder.

Time for a DSG pause (1609 X 72); which will be rather long since the power company want me to subscribe to their early retirement fund for connecting 3 phase and as I reckon my retirement is more important  I will opt to purchase a generator.

The hubs came off the axle as described, the nut being quite loose (should it be tight or not?) and showing the bearing sleave with no wear - a nice find. No linings on the brake shoes.

Thanks Ben, seems there has been a degree of freelance design happening. Also, all except the first are 14 spoke rather than Barry's 12. The idea of a 'pull-up' band would likely be part of the plan to tighten and test the wheel prior to a shrink fit.

Wow, I have been away and come back to see this amazing computer work. I knew it would be complicated hence all my questions. These wheels do not have a wagon wheel type hub for the spokes to tenon into so the conventional wheelwright technique does not apply.

Next question:- there are two narrow steel bands on Barry's example and the thought was that they were not original. On the other hand  a single very wide one might be a big ask to slip over such a wide wheel in the usual heat shrink style.

It is all starting to make sense now. Aiming for a 720mm tyre size. Are the spokes connected to the felloe with a 1" dowel, and  how thick are they? They look to be of parallel thickness and width, except perhaps for a bulge at the brake drum fixing. What is the advice on thickness of a band for the wood wheel?

That is a relief to hear, thanks.

Ha, the thought of turning up the dial on a 3-D printing machine crossed my mind as well.

I think you are right Andy, however separating the hub from the axle beam will need to be achieved first. (Barry, can you advise?)

A fellow can't have too much information so I had to have this nice 1/16 scale kit.

and for a parts book....

I am missing parts D43 left & right

kit parts.pdf

With the prospect of some new wheels on the horizon I prised off a rear hub cap to reveal a neat bead of weld fixing the modern rim to both the hub and the half shaft......things just got complicated!

There is a fair amount on the internet about building wagon type wood wheels but very little that covers  the lorry era in Britain. Thanks to Barry's fabulous input a lot of questions have been answered, however more are raised about the rim/tyre diameter which is actually smaller than expected. I am sure all will be revealed once his wheels are fully dismantled. 

My plan is to have a set of wheels on hand before the restoration starts in earnest. There is also the small matter of a house extension with preliminary underpinning which is at the front of the queue.