george

Thanks,

I'm not sure this was the chap.

I believe it was four years ago they were taken away from REME to be worked on.

My problem is that the staff at REME have no records of who took them, or if there were details they cannot be found.

My contacts at the museum have drawn a complete blank.....I'm not sure whether to be disappointed or disgusted at the loss of these iconic vehicles.

I feel this is the way of most museums now.....I hear rumours that Duxford may be closing the "Land Warfare" hall.

George.

Some years ago, the only other 2 (?) AEC 850 chassis were gifted to the REME museum, on the death of their owner. I believe they had been kept somewhere in the Cambridgeshire area.

I have a few photo's of them being delivered to the museum, the story was that one could possibly be restored by using parts from them both.

Having been in contact with the REME museum, there now seems to be no knowledge of where they are now, even worse, who it was that was going to undertake the work. The new curator has no information whatever. Brian Baxter was at the museum at this time, he has since retired and unable to recall any more information, though we have been in contact over the matter.

Can any one shed any light, or know the person concerned as I would like to get some info as to the chassis, and running gear....preferably with the body off. I have details from the ex Duxford one, but need some "nude" of it.

Thanks

George Moore

Ah,

Thanks for that, sorry to have put you to any trouble, but the info is worth having. I can only think these fittings are sort of hooks to carry / lift the barrel.

As you say it is a very heavy piece of kit.

Thank you for everything, in my line nothing is wasted...all info is good info.....I only wish that over the years of visiting scrapyards etc etc, I had taken more interest and photographs rather than concentrating on one thing.

Thanks again for the help.

George.

Marvellous......thanks so much for taking the time to do this.

 

If you don't mind, a few more questions:

Have you info on how (which side) they fitted on the C9B. I know there are fittings to house them but most photo's I have do not show them in any detail, or they are missing.

Am I correct in thinking that the tools relate to different model guns, in which case I am after WW2 vintage, rather than post war.

 

Again am I correct in saying the barrel was unscrewed, then held in two [?] cradles....the long bar with semi-circular housing. You mention four guys, so two each side.

 

No apologies for the orientation, or memory, at 70 I too have senior moments.

 

Thanks again and I hope I am not being too much of a nuisance.

 

Regards.

George.

A bit confused, the only photo I have shows something different fitted in this area. ?

George.

Marvellous......thanks so much for taking the time to do this.

If you don't mind, a few more questions:

Have you info on how (which side) they fitted on the C9B. I know there are fittings to house them but most photo's I have do not show them in any detail, or they are missing.

Am I correct in thinking that the tools relate to different model guns, in which case I am after WW2 vintage, rather than post war.

Again am I correct in saying the barrel was unscrewed, then held in two [?] cradles....the long bar with semi-circular housing. You mention four guys, so two each side.

No apologies for the orientation, or memory, at 70 I too have senior moments.

Thanks again and I hope I am not being too much of a nuisance.

Regards.

George.

George, do you need photos of the tools themselves? I can take some in the morning but there are two. A fixed carrying tool for the breech end and a folding one with a square bore for unscrewing the barrel and lifting the muzzle end. There are two patterns of the muzzle one.

If you can photo them with a tape measure so I can determine their sizes, that would be great. I am gathering info to enable a 1/35 plastic kit to be produced. I have quite a lot of photographs of the chassis, taken many many years ago in a collectors yard Chichester way if I recall. there was just the chassis frame but no gun.

can you explain the difference between the different types. I am assuming that the barrel was changed after so many rounds, and was quite hot, hence the need to handle it with tools.....or do i have it wrong.

Thanks again for the offer of help.

George.

Can any one supply details photo's or stowage sketches for the barrel handling tools that were fitted on the Morris C9B.

They were located on the curved section of the rear mudguards, where they were attached to the outrigger beams.

I think they were hook like links and possibly a spanner to remove the worn barrel and fit the spare barrel carried on top of the rear mudguards.

Any info would be of great help.

George Moore

georgemoore66@hotmail.co.uk

Thanks.

Can anybody help with information on one or either of these vehicles. I have a number of photographs of both the recovery and artillery towing vehicles, but is there? are there ? any lubrication or details of the chassis layout.

I understand there was a contemporary article written in the 1930's which had drawings of the chassis, but am unable to find out which journal and the date...."Commercial Motor"......"??? Engineer".....not sure.

I have photographed (extensively) the Duxford example, but a lot is un-get-attable....the engine appears to have its own sub chassis mounted off centre, and the arrangement of the girder-like structure that supported the rear WD type axle is still a bit of a mystery.....(got severly reprimanded for crawling under the exhibit)......though I had sought permission !

I understand two examples were gifted to REME, and are under restoration, can anyone shed light on where they are ?

A lot of asks, but any help is appreciated.

I can be emailed at "georgemoore66@hotmail.co.uk......

Thanks

George.

An interesting photo, undated it may possibly be late war.....there appears to be a lighter cover over the tilt....tied on separately...could this be an ID panel for aircraft recognition.....I don't think it's a trick of the light.

Looks as if another light panel is across the front as well.

George.

Another great reply, which pretty much clears up the info I need.

It clears up my mistake re the radiators. I thought the "plain" ones were the cast type. My comment is directed to the fact that that detail will need to be added.

I have to admit I missed the shape of the fuel tank, thanks for pointing that out.

It also clears up the type of body fitted.

Thanks again for the help, especially the time taken to supply this info....it is much appreciated.

George.

I am planning on doing the FWD Type B. 1916----18

The plan would be to produce a "basic chassis".....with the option of radiator front, the body would be the US ammunition body with the option of a load carrier GS body. The tilt could be made as separate.

i am aware of variations, but need info as to what was used when.....again the period is exclusive to WW1. British / US service. We already have the 6" howitzer/limber and the 8" howitzer and limber.....which could be towed according to Tim's book.

The scale is 1/35th.

I must thank you for the info already sent......just what I need......

George.

Gents,

I am currently working on a model of the FWD B type, looking at this thread I would be grateful for any information you could supply.

In process rebuild photo's would be of great help, and copies from the manual would be of enormous value.

I think the lubrication diagram if there is one would be one thing.

I have a list of wants, should you be kind enough to supply:

chassis without body

petrol tank mounting

rear spring layout

scuttle looking from drivers view

wheels, either spoke or solid viewed straight on, so I can determine sizes and shapes

axles with regard to brake drums and steering linkages

In general, details of chassis / fittings.

A number of body types were fitted, do you have widths and lengths......the ammunition body was different to the load carrier....was this just a US issue ??

I have a number of photographs, and it appears that in British service, they altered the radiator to improve cooling, the original radiators were prone to cracking.....my question is the "British" version does not have the side openings on the radiator shell........I have Tim Goslings book on WW1 vehicles....the radiator without openings seems standard...US vehicles in service and restored (from photo's I have) show the side openings......

I know this is an extensive possibly daunting list, but any help would be much appreciated.

I am based in the UK, so would hope that info is available in the UK, I am able to pay any reasonable costs etc, for those outside the UK.

Gents.....any help would be appreciated.

George Moore

georgemoore66@hotmail.co.uk

Thanks in advance.

Can anyone supply me with the wheelbase and track measurements for the 4 ton chassis.....the chassis used for mounting the 3" AA gun.

Thank......those are excellent plan and elevation drawings......but I would like some dimensions.

George

georgemoore66@hotmail.co'uk

This is interesting, when I was at Duxford summer 2014, I came across the British 60pdr which I was told was being prepared for shipping to Australia for the WW1 display.......anyone able to let me know if it turned up ????

George.

Richard, there are a couple of things.

I believe there was an article in one of the technical journals on he AEC 850/FWD R6T. This may have been outside the scope of your collection, dated sometime in the 30's.

I am after details of the Peerless 4 ton chassis.....mainly the wheelbase/track measurements....I have a set of plan and side elevation, however there are no dimensions......the chassis would be the one used for mounting the 3" AA gun.

contact details:

georgemoore66@hotmail.co.uk

Any help appreciated.

Regards

George.

George,

There were two rows of seats at the front of the body and then also it had two small wooden/steel seats (that were hung over the body sides and then the lower edge pushed against the boards at the bottom for support) for a couple of guys to sit at the back facing the gun, though to fit the second of these you would need to relocate the spare wheel which was often rolled up to behind the second fixed row of seats.

Thanks for the responses and info.....it makes sense, it was just that I had seen the odd photo that indicated that there were seats along the side.....but was confused by the extra seats that were hung off the side.....thanks again.

George.

Can anyone help with the details of the seating / stowage for the ealy WW2 Matador, used for towing the 6" howitzer.

Was the seating arranged across the rear body, or along the sides.

Thanks for ant info.

George.

George

In your Post 24, lower photo showing guns that have been there a while, note the grass quite high, do you know where is the location ?

Sorry, no, they were from a collection of a friend of mine, I will try and find out, but it may take a while.

I understand there were numerous collection points scattered around, according WW2 Talk, there was one just outside Dunkirk, where a number of vehicles were dumped by retreating troops......this however would appear to be a collection point, in a field, despite the grass "being as high as the gun layers eye" (sorry about that), it could have been some while after the retreat as it seems only artillery pieces have been collected.

I have other photo's of carriers only and softskins only, so perhaps they were stock-taking areas. it would seem tht with Teutonic efficiency, equipment was divided into type and category.....so it is feasible that this was some time after the event.

George.

Good evening gents,

Ref the comments on the 18/25 Pdr field guns , it was a 18 pdr barrel fitted with a loose Liner or called autofrettage to take the 25 pdr round .Now if you where to visit Heugh Gun Battery at Hartlepool , you will find a 18/25 pdr on a mk VP carriage ( A rare old lady). I noticed that a photo had a 18/25 pdr with split trails hooked up to a No.27 limber & a turntable on the top of it, this would be of no use as due to the split trails. You would need two two covers for each spade for it to work with the turntable.

thanks for your time

 

Niallmhor

Hi, any chance of some walk-round photo's ????? I was aware of one that was in Eire, also another in Australia. I have information from Woolwich, a small layout and lubrication diagram, but would be interested in the underside "sub frame" as this looks similar (on the drawings) to the box trail version. There also seems to be q variation in the axletree hangers, the Oz one is a square profile.

I live in Plymouth, currently recovering from a quadruple by-pass, so travel is out of the question at the moment.

George

A big thank you for sending me the photographs of your Limber, much appreciated.

All you 1:1 collectors and restorers are a mine of information, and its only right to acknowlegde the help you are able to offer us "toy makers".

Thanks again.

George.

Amazing, would there be any chance of seeing some photos of your Limber, I made one to accompany the model kit of the 18pdr for Resicast, based on Trawins drawings, but I'd love to get some more details especially the fittings and underneath brake linkages etc.

There appears to be a metal plate on the towing bar, difficult to make out on the photo's, was this a form of guard or rubbing plate for when the limber was at maximum turn, to avoid fouling ???

If you have any pre-restoration photo's I would love to see them.

george.dfs1@virginmedia.com

These show the early mock ups, with dummy wheels, some details missing. There is a 4.5" Howitzer to accompant it too.

Thanks.

George.

Somehow, correct me if I am wrong, the thread seems to be taking a different direction.

Although there were MkIV 18pdrs, MkIV 18 pdr conversions to take the 25pdr round, and 18pdr MkII guns in service, do we agree that the BEF had ;

18pdrs MkII with pole trail and Martin Parry conversion to pneumatic tyres.

18/25pdr box trail and split trail, converted from the 18pdr MkIV.

Are you saying that there were also 18pdr MkIV in France as well.

I have a number of photos of abandoned guns of the BEF, also some of the limbers associated with the 18 pdr, which I think was the No 29, or so the official caption says.

This limber is the same configuration as the WWI, with the exception of the Martin Parry conversion.

According to the drawings on Len Trawins book on artillery, there were limbers and ammunition carriers, different layouts, but the limbers associated with the 18pdr seem to be the No29. There is of course the exception in IWM photo F 3973, of Gort reviewing the gun.

I enclose one photo of gun and limber plus the official photo of the limber from the handbook.

Could there have been different issues of equipent re regular units and TA to account for these anomolies.

George.

The 18pdr surronded by German troops is the 18 pdr MkII, it has the hydro pneumatic recoil system, all the photographs I have of abandoned guns in France show this type of recuperator.

The MkIV 18pdr seems to be the gun converted to take the 25pdr ammunition, according to Wiki, 611 were converted prior to WWII, and over 800 during.

18 pdrs adopted the same limber used in WWI but with the Martin Parry conversion. There is one photo of Lord Gort inspecting artillery, with the No 27 Limber alongside an 18 pdr. The 18pdr used fixed ammunition (shell and cartridge case) whereas the 18/25 and 25 pdr used seperate ammunition.

It is possible that the 27 limber could hold the fixed ammunition of the 18 pdr but I have not checked.

So what you are saying is that not all the seemingly 18/25 pdrs were that, but some were in fact 18 pdr MkIV.

Photographs I have of the MkIV 18 pdr however only show them with the spoked artillery wheels.

A lot of information is missing for this period to be definitive, but these show a number of captured guns from the BEF.

Captured guns 2 shows what I think are 18/25 pdr, 18 pdrs, 2 pdrs, some Hotchkiss to the right and in the back at least four 3" 20cwt AA guns on the 4 wheeled trailer.

George

Just to clarify, both the 18pdr and 25pdr MkI (18/25 pdr) were used in France, some 18pdrs were used in North Africa too. A quantity of 18pdrs were sent to Australia.

The 18 pdr "proper", was the WWI gun, modified to take pneumatic tyres utilising the Martin Parry stub axle attachment.

Defining features are the recuperator over the barrel and the pole trail.

The MkI 25pdr, has a box trail, the recuperator is now in the cradle, below the barrel.

They are quite distinct, here the photos are captioned 25 - 18 pounders !!!! These do show the different style of shield seen on the box trail and split trail guns however.

George.

You are correct, the gun was officialy the 25pdr MkI, however it was commonly called the 18/25pdr for the reason it used the 18pdr barrel converted to take the "new" 25pdr round.

The breech was an iterupted screw type, not a Wellin as I first said however.

To boilt it down to basics, field guns during WWI were Howitzers (4.5") and the 18pdr, which fired a flat trajectory shot. The decision was to produce a "dual purpose" field gun, that would replace the howitzer and the field gun.

Cost constraints basically led to the use of the large number of 18pdrs left over, they were easily converted, and barrels could be fitted on a newly designed (Vickers) box trail carriage.

Drawings etc are titled 25pdr MkI, however, it was more commonly known as the 18/25pdr.

The No 24 Limber was obsolete by 1939, having been replaced by the No 27, the 27 was better in that the varios tools could be carried, and was designed to carry the platform.

Here again, I have not seen any evidence of the earlier No24 Limber being used by the BEF, despite the fact that there was a lot of obsolete vehicles that accompanied the BEF to France.

Details I have come from the Osprey book on the 25pdr, and this outlines the history of the MkI and the later Mk's.

So yes officially the 25pdr MkI.......known as the 18/25pdr.

George.