challenger

Good Morning,

has anyone got a decent picture of the folding fuel hopper used on Centurion and Chieftain that assisted the use of Jerry Cans for refueling? It would be greatly appreciated if anyone has.

I see, so some other generation will maybe get the chance to rescue those...

 

For the Khalid (I had to look that up), was that for trials or training?

 

trevor

The Khalid episode was trying a new, well new then, night sight for the commander. We shot at the Tortoise because it was a big three dimensional target at about 1200m.

Conqueror turret is later than the hull, the vehicle, 07 BA 74 was originally built as a Caernarvon; that is this hull with a Centurion turret. It was produced to give the user experience operating such a large vehicle until the Conqueror turrets became available. Once they did the Centurion turrets were swapped out and the vehicle become Conqueror. A good book on the subject is Bob Griffin's Conqueror; all you could want to know on the subject.:laugh:

I hope you don't mind me jumping Balmae. - There are several controlled impact areas. That is areas that are contaminated with one thing or another; the Chieftain P5 is sat in one of them. I doubt that one will be "Cleared" in our lifetime. Shame really. The Comet 28 is often shot today with all sorts of high explosive; most of the other targets haven't been shot at for years. The Tortoise was engaged by yours truly about 1978 from a Khalid at night firing DS/T. All the big holes in it are from APDS from Chieftain.

Kirkcudbright No 23. Chieftain

 

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This one is interesting it is 00DA05 an unarmoured prototype used for driving trials. When we shot it it was complete except for the main armament gun barrel. The big holes are 120 APDS and the small ones on the wing are .50 ranging gun. Happy days.

Not in the same position today, it was dragged up the hill about a hundred yards for some reason in the past. I see some enterprising person has taken the radiators.

You're doing a great job Balmae, well done it's great. I was unable to get around as much as you have managed, I couldn't take that many photographs when I was in green because of all the confidential background stuff. It might be an idea to follow your lead and document all the hards on the major ranges. There was a big house on the edge of the range area call Balmae, there were still some outbuildings and a pet cemetery there in the late seventies, early eighties. The big house on the other end, Netherlaw was complete but since knocked down.

Kirkcudbright No 24. Chieftain

 

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This one is P5 the oldest surviving of the prototypes. Nothing inside it, not even a hull floor. We shot at it about 1976.

Never noticed the difference in Comet hulls when I photographed them 2011. When in green working up there in the seventies the place was awash with old vehicles; three Churchill Toads, Centurion target tank, lots of Chieftains, four or five Conquerors, many Sherman and lots and lots of Daimler Armoured cars. We used to use a hull from a Charioteer as a high speed smoke generator for laser tests also an Austin Champ for the same. There was also a Daimler Armoured car in the park at Kirk also one in Dalbeattie. Both removed some time ago because of children falling off them. I think they were both cut up for scrap.

Two more I have found from around 2011

thanks, that would explain the heavy construction :thumbsup:

Some more pictures of said vehicle. It indicates there were at least two. Why the different turret I don't know

And the one at Kirk

We shot at the one at Kirkcudbright in the early seventies, it was just one of many targets on the range at that time.

We were issued with them but told at the same time that if we were caught with on our heads we would be wearing a steel helmet for the next month. They are a typical bit of kit that absolutely no thought was put into. Chucked mine away as did most other people.

I would say you are mostly correct; The L5a1 was a swap sight for the Commander of Challenger before the thermal system was incorporated. It gave the Commander a limited night vision capability. This sight was also fitted to Khaled in the Commanders position. So not a common sight.

Been on these ranges several times when I was in green; there are many different vehicles on there, Conqueror, Centurion, Saladin, AMX 13, M47 and lots of other stuff. Looks like they are clearing the range after closure.

Spotted in the Bass Pro car park in Harrisburg, Pa

 

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Couldn't get the pictures the right way up - very annoying! If anyone knows how to turn them the right way up let me know...

There you go

Sounds good to me count me in - Challenger

Saladin at Allenby was replaced with a Scorpion and the bed it was sat in has been modified with the removal of the word Saladin. The Scorpion looks like it will end up in the same state as its predecessor.

:embarrassed:

Is this one at Allenby Barracks still there?

 

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I believe it is but I will check to make sure tomorrow :-)

The Saladin now at Lulworth is the one that was loaned by the QRL home headquarters to the Gunnery School; it was in the Prince William of Gloucester Barracks in Grantham but was moved to Lulworth some years ago. It is now painted sand with a spurious call sign on the turret side. The one it replaced at Lulworth is at the Tank Museum awaiting restoration. Not sure where the one from Imphal went but it didn’t go to Lulworth.

This may already have been asked but has anyone an idea regarding this vehicle? It is on its way to Poland but from where and what is the reg number. I would say that it has been driving around somewhat prior as the tracks appear to be in a fairly rough state.:-)

We had a few on the workshop M113s , don't remember seeing the tankies with them so they may have been scrounged off obsolete vehicles. very useful when you have to fill a large fuel tank , after a while a jerry can gets very heavy by the 3rd or 4th you would be very pleased to find one of these !

Used them on Chieftain in the early days, you could rest the upturned Jerry cans on them to make it easier. The method developed though so the Hopper was done away with and the can was upturned with the open nozzle resting in the filler for the fuel tank. You could have four Jerry cans on the go with Chieftain making the filling somewhat quicker. Two men, usually the Loader and the Gunner, managed the refueling quite quickly. The empty cans were chucked over the side to be picked up later.

Thanks to all for the welcome, normally I spend time on model millitary forums so this first time with the big boys. (please be gentle).

 

Normally, from what I can find out about factory models or apprentice models, they are usually around 1/10 scale for easy of display and movement.(picture from the 80s Leeds) They can be very complicated to encourage apprenticeship input, usually made from plated materials and using machining principles to improve skills, but this model of the Chieftain is something else and for me a bit of an enigma.

So here we go.

The Chieftain tank model is an all metal nut and bolt hand built construction about 1/5^th scale, imperial measurements BA nuts and bolts date it, and I guess it was built around 1970. It was never painted, but was varnished at one time with brass/gold coloured trim parts. I believe it had once been powered by a large single motor driving some form of gearbox via belts or chain, all of which was removed.

I was told by the previous owner that he had rescued it from a clear out from one of the Chertsey departments, RARDE, MVEE. The model is so large that it was suspended in steel cradle, with lifting lugs, ropes were used to drag it round, almost totally empty and it was sadly starting to deteriorate.

She has now been restored with a few improvements from my point of view, new drive system, control, quality sound and a traversing turret. Outwardly though original, as she would have been at the time of her build.

I would like to know who built it and why ? Why was it never painted? Why the gold trim? All lines of enquiry have so far been exhausted. It looks like a possible factory model, a lot of time, castings, money and effort went into building her. Research shows the Queen visiting the fort in 1972 would it have been there at that time? If anyone knows any of the answers, please let me know.

John

Sorry about the selfy, it there to show size. honest, the little picture in picture is an apprentice model from Barnbow, Leeds during the 70's, about 1/10, not quite this monster.

 

 

 

The Challenger with the man in the white coat is still around; not as big as the Chieftain by some way but still a substantial model. Power unit is gone but the transmission is still there. Suspension works and the track is made from individual links. The model at present weighs around thirty kgs. It looks like the elevation was controlled by a simple mechanism. All pictures taken today.

A bit late but I have only come across the pictures. I remember reading on here that someone had acquired a mystery turret that had a mounting for two GPMG in it. It was correctly said that it was probably from an AT 105 which became Saxon in British Army service. You can see that this particular vehicle has the twin GPMG and that the vehicle is left hand drive. We fired this vehicle at Lulworth in the eighties and seemed to work quite well with the twin guns. Stoppage drill could be quite interesting however.

Not very often these days as they are usually driven on andoff the modern car transporter ships. But the option is always there to put theminto conventional cargo ships by crane. On Chieftain the rear bins have to be removed to lift by crane because they are set too close to the rear lifting eyes. All fairly simple, all you need is a big crane but weighing in at just over fifty tonnes the average dockyardcrane would have little problem.

One on the other side of the turret as well. They are fairleads used when the tank is picked up by a crane. With the gun in the clamp the four legged sling is attached to the four large lifting points on either corner of the hull. Because the bulk of the turret is forward of the centre of the vehicle the two front legs of the lifting sling foul the turret. These fairleads keep the legs in position as the vehicle is lifted.

the rolls royce heritage trust did a book on the meteor engine development which goes into great detail about the contribution made by W A Robottom to british tank design. I would highly recommend it

Book, The Vickers' Tanks covers from year dot to Challenger 2. Not in depth stuff that you are after but contains the general outline of what they did and why. Probably get it on Amazon.

I learn't something too! How does it hold the plug, is it magnetic?

No not magnetic; the end is a simple socket the fits over the plug and the knurled end is then turned to screw into the plug. The plug is then captive to the tool so it can then be removed by turning the whole tool with a spanner or socket and ratchet. Problem if you happen to lose the plug down into the depths you cannot move the vehicle as the fluid flywheel will turn and empty out all the oil. Been there done that on a Saladin in a former life. I wasn't popular!