g0ozs

Bob

I think so - looking at the map it might have been at the pond where Willowtree Marina now is. I dimly remember some kind of Foundry or Iron Works being near by at the time but it would have been earlier than 1992 for sure.

I'm also interested in what happened to them - I plotted for years to go back and buy one as a houseboat but by the time I had the funds I already had a car and a house on land !

Regards

Iain

Dear All

About 25 years ago I helped a friend from work collect a dismantled cinema organ from a storage yard and workshop in West London.

The location was beside a river and I remember 3 or 4 landing craft were out of the water on a bank between the yard and the river. From memory they were about 4 metres beam and 15-20 metres long with a small bridge / wheelhouse so li

I didn't drive the van on the day so I cant remember exactly where it was (so can't search google earth) and I sometimes wonder what happened to them - I wonder if anyone here saw them and remembers where ?

Iain

Having acquired a half finished engine, generator and 24V to 12V conversion in my "diesel" SUMB the biggest challenge has been the instruments which were of course designed for 24V operation - replacing lights is much easier !

Iain

I have essentially the same situation with Simca SUMB No 17310 which was registered as Agricultural with a declared year of manufacture 1972 (last possible year of manufacture for that type) and had at some point transmuted to historic. It never had a MoT and is 3600 KG empty equipped 5300KG GVW. The options are HGV registration and HGV class A MoT if I can work out the forms to get it plated (needs a ministry plate to do the HGV MoT as nearly the first thing in the HGV test manual is to check the plate!) or (much simpler for our purpose) convert it to a motor caravan in which case a Class IV MoT applies regardless of weight and no plate is needed. See:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/412160/Registering_a_DIY_Caravan.pdf

https://www.gov.uk/getting-an-mot/mot-test-fees

I think the alternate PHGV route would need to start with form VTG1:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/hgv-first-test-application-form-vtg1

and for a 3.5 to 7.5 tonne vehicle the HGV test class would be the least expensive. I am not sure however whether the lack of a type approval certificate for pre 1982 vehicles is a barrier to this route, as the form guidance notes imply that it is needed to get a plate without being clear if that is applicable pre 1982 !

I pasted the notes below

Regards

Iain

====

Notes

Form VTG1

must be used when applying for a test for:

•

a heavy goods vehicle when a Ministry Plate has not previously been issued

•

a vehicle previously exempt from testing (eg fire engine, access platform)

•

an ex-ministry of Defence vehicle

•

an imported vehicle over one year old

A separate application form must be completed for both vehicle and trailer in a combination. Trailer

applications should be submitted on form VTG2 for first test or form VTG40 for annual test.

If the vehicle is imported from another EC country (excluding Greece and Eire) please also apply to

the Vehicle Certification

Agency for a British type approval certificate under the provisions of EC

Commission Notice (88/C281/08):

Vehicle Certification Agency

1, The Eastgate Of

fice Centre

Eastgate Road,

Bristol,

BS5 6XX

Tel: 0117 952 4191

If the vehicle is imported from outside the EC, Greece or Eire, contact the vehicle manufacturer to

see if a British type approval certificate is available for the vehicle. All vehicles manufactured af

ter

the 1st October 1982 are subject to British Type Approval. If available, please enclose the certificate

with this application. If a certificate is not available, it is unlikely that the vehicle will comply with the

requirements for plating and testing.

Rather less military and rather more vintage vehicles this year (I plead guilty for one less, as I couldn't stay all day) - the star attraction was the Foden EKA wrecker of D J Spall &co of Charsfield. I attach a few photos

Iain

I think the SUMB owes more inspiration to the Unimog than anything else - it was designed in 1959 and produced until the early 1970s so rather later than the first Unimogs or the Humber 1 Ton or Austin K9.

In some ways it is very conservative (sharing the V8 4.2l flathead 110hp engine, Bendix drum brakes and much of its electrical system with older vehicles in French service at the time). In other ways it is quite advanced - noticeably portal axles, coil springs all round, floating cab mounted on rubber shock mounts, and an easily reconfigured completely flat rear body without wheel arches and fitted with quick change seats and attachments for cargo or containerised communications payloads.

When compared with the British contemporaries I think only the Humber 1 ton really has a similar specification and the SUMB outlasted the Humber, the Austin K9, US M37 and indeed the later CUCV or Landrover 101 in service so it was a reasonably good design on a par with the Unimog 404.

They are the right size for my use as a "self propelled tent" and I like them. After 50 years or so they do have standard faults - particularly around the fuel system and brakes, and the bottom edges of the double skinned cab and doors are prone to rust through from the inside. But the steel and wood structure lasts better than steel and aluminium and I have not seen chassis corrosion on any of the three I own or have owned. 17310 already has an electric fuel pump fitted so I think the idling issue may be due to mixture or plugs. The brake seals are easily replaced - they seem to be the same size as more readily obtained M35 Reo ones.

Iain

Dear All

I bought another SUMB as a donor for the missing rear body parts on my other project SUMB - it turns out to be in much better condition so I am now going to work on No. 17310 first. I went up to East Keale in Lincolnshire a week ago Friday with Phil from Taylor Commercials at Haughley (a pleasure to work with!) and retrieved it home to get the roof off so it will go in my barn (8 foot clearance vs 8 foot 10 inches high to the top of the hoops). The defects found so far on this one are:

• Poor idling (vendor thought one cylinder not firing and supplied spare set of plugs)
  
• Brake fluid reservoir empty (I expect normal leaking wheel cylinder seals that I saw on every SUMB I worked on so far)
  
• Indicator switch replaced with a modern toggle and 2 or 4 lamps not flashing (front right and rear left I think) and dashboard indicator mimic lights not working
  
• Brake lights not working (I suspect the microswitch on the end of the air assisted slave cylinder is U/S same as my first SUMB) and will likely replace it with a pedal switch
  
• One original French and one UK headlight so dipping wrong way
  
• Bottom edge of one door rotten with rust
  
• RH edge U-channel of the load bed rusted through for much of the length
  
• Missing LH headlamp retaining ring
  
• One flat battery (7V on headlamp load after 24H charge)
  
• Michelin ZXL tyres have sidewall cracking (as ever - I only buy Continentals or Uniroyals now)
  
• Fitted with 2 off 065 batteries one in each box rather than 2 x 038 batteries in each box - non standard cabling as a result needs reverting to original
  
• Both front windscreens cracked (I have spares)
  
• Steering wheel play seems excessive (I know where there is a spare steering gear box)
  
• Brake pipes look corroded (I'll probably let the MoT garage take care of that before presenting it for test!)
  

On the plus side the engine starts and runs better than my old first V8 SUMB on a good day as long as I keep the hand throttle above idle, there is a good roof, the back door added by the gunbus conversion is mechanically sound, the electrical wiring harness is intact, the cab is largely rust free (I think because of earlier repairs by the vendor) and the V5 information matches the vehicle.

In other words nothing that a bit of welding, new brake pipes, a piece of steel channel, a new set of brake seals and redirection of the parts stockpiled for No 18595 wont cure

I plan to equip this one as a motor caravan to simplify future MoT (it is was imported by "The Army Farm" and registered 1972 which is consistent with the end of the SUMB production run whereas most or the Gunbus Company ones with KASxxx registrations are registered as 1959 which was the first prototype - from my research the truth is in between with most of the 10,000 or so military SUMBs made between 1962 and 1970). It was originally registered as agricultural and lived on a Lincolnshire farm, so MoT will be a new experience for it.

My daughter insists we get it ready for Beltring next year rather than sleep in the 12x12 tent again (it leaked in the storm night this year)! I already have most of the bits needed in store (hob/sink unit, chemical toilet, water tank) and can build the table, seats and beds, but will need to get side windows added to the tilt to complete the DVLA check list for a DIY motor home conversion at https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/412160/Registering_a_DIY_Caravan.pdf . Does anyone in Suffolk or nearby do that kind of work currently ?

I attach a couple of photos from the e-Bay listing as a "before" record of the vehicle condition. I plan on keeping the back door but adding a skin to keep the weather out. The fixed steps have been removed as they will be a nuisance on road (and make the truck too long to fit in the barn!) - I have a much lighter aluminium set in stock

I have now got the hoops off (after drilling out a few bolts added by the gunbus conversion that were completely solid) and just have to sort the battery so I can drive it onto the flatbed and off into the barn before getting Taylors back to shift it.

Iain

This thread has been a bit quiet as I have been busy house-moving and the vendor has never completed the engine change notification for the V5 as agreed and no longer answers his mobile (so I expect to have to do a V62 and get an engineers report on the new engine before it can be used). I bought yet another SUMB last week as a donor for the roof hoops but it is actually in better condition with an original V8 engine, a good V5 and good bodywork apart from some rust along one side of the body and the bottom of a door, a slight lack of brake fluid and broken windows - so I think No. 18595 may become a parts donor at least in the short term as I can get better use for the tyres and brake parts I bought on the new vehicle.

Iain

PS note to others who may get in the same situation of waiting for a vendor to send in an amended V5 - having now looked at the V62 guidance notes I find that I should have sent it and the green buyers part of the V5 if I didn't get a new V5 in 4 weeks after sale, apparently! So being patient for a year was an error.

Folks

I found my good PDF of MAT3437 reparation Marmon now - the carburettor pages are attached

Regards

Iain

Ian

The grounds for exemption are listed at https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-approval/exemptions-from-vehicle-approval - I imagine it is either a light goods vehicle or a passenger vehicle with 8 passenger seats or less and more than 10 years old ?

Regards

Iain

Antony

Yes, I am waiting to see the Shielder out and about ! I should be at Foxhall with the 35LK88 defender next month if you are there btw?

If you need any Clansman radio cables antennas etc let me know - I have more harness cables and boxes than I need but I dont think I have one of the ones in the picture immediately to hand but will have a rummage next time I am at my barn storage - it looks like a smaller version of the 4 pin boiling vessel connector ?

Iain

The Xmod are usually a good bet although the pricing is sometimes surprisingly high or low and the site is only easy to search if you have an FV or NATO stock number !

Iain

Mike

Maybe the best thing is to come up to Cambridge sometime when you are there and bring one of the spare SUMB boxes ?

For various reasons Monday or Thursday evenings are best for me

Regards

Iain

Mike

Yes sure - btw I had a big shed sort-out this weekend and I now know where my spare set of SUMB dashboard boxes are - so if you can wait a few days I should have some control knobs for you. I do have one of the master light switches that I bought as a spare too

Regards

Iain

ScrappyLoz

One more photo I saved with English annotation

I think the open holes you found may be supposed to hold idle mixture adjusting screws ?

Or is this a slightly different carb ?

Iain

Mike

I have never seen any evidence of an export SUMB - probably because the rest of the world was changing to Diesel by the late 60s - I think the Renault TRM series sold better (and indeed 1000 or so SUMBs got refitted with the TRM2000 engine to extend their service into the '90s)

They did try - I remember seeing a 1959 advert featuring the SUMB and targeted at the oil industry in English somewhere on the web but cant find it now

Iain

Yes, there are only French language manuals - unlike the jeeps and GRCxx / VRCxx radios of US origin there are no US counterparts. I have attached the relevant pages for the carburettor from the service manual MAT4155 - Google Translate will explain the rest ..

Iain

Hi

I will see if I can find a diagram in the manual in the morning to show the connections. I only have a diesel SUMB to hand to check at present

I do have setup instructions in French somewhere - I think TM-WW2.COM have the full manual if you need it

Regards

Iain

On the A12 at Martlesham a Foden EKA wrecker now in the ownership of D J Spall (our local heavy recovery specialist)

Hi

Re. the knobs I dont have one immediately in reach to scratch and confirm what's under the paint - I think they are some kind of fairly soft and brittle cast metal (I am sure I saw exposed metal on a broken one). They are secured to the switch spindle by a grub screw.

Regards

Iain

Mike

The photo looks identical to mine - there is one from 2011 from my web site (www.g0ozs.org) during my original Marmon restoration (the one I sold in January 2013) about taken 4 years ago - it was my writing - but I think the angle is slightly different ?

http://www.g0ozs.org/marmon/SUMB_Photos_October_2011/img/2/3_slideshow.jpg

Hopefully my old truck isn't being broken up - I will be sad if so

Regards

Iain

Mike

The photo seems strangely familiar!

I think in all the manuals and real examples of the SUMB control panels that I have seen there were only the graphic symbols in the centre of each switch lever and small self-adhesive labels - I did once make up an annotated diagram (to help an MoT tester of my first SUMB) which is at: http://www.g0ozs.org/marmon/marmon-panel-0a.gif

The start switch is momentary between battery positive and the starter solenoid - there is a separate master power switch between battery negative and the chassis which is located on the left side of the gearbox tunnel forward of the driver's seat and the "power" switch on the panel controls basically the lights, fan and wipers.

The fan switch is on/off - there is a mechanical flap to select hot or cold

T is a hand throttle that allows control of idling speed - connected by bowden cable to the accellerator - it effectually controls the speed when the foot is off the accellerator

The wiper is on/off no intermittent or speed control

CH is indeed choke

I have a wiring diagram if it will help?

I have bought several things from ass.service.national - always good items and sometimes with extras, but the postage was always quite high

Regards

Iain

Hi

I think I have had some small parts from him via e-Bay - I seem to remember postage for anything larger from France (for all sellers) was something of a deterrent to sourcing outside the UK

Regards

Iain

73 de G0OZS

I've never bought a tent from Arthur but did buy several radio masts and an NCRS trailer which were exactly as described and it was a pleasure to visit & collect them

Iain

I got a spare carb off RR services for my previous SUMB so didnt have to research what it really is - I believe (based on http://www.bloomingdalecom.net/~billben/french.htm) it is a Zenith - certainly the quoted Zenith 32 NDX looks right in a google search for photos - I believe it was also used in some Porsche and Haflinger vehicles so rebuild kits remain on the market.

Hope this helps

Iain