Fugly

The bin design did change at some point when I don't know I suspect that it was changed to make it easier to get at the spare wheel.

 

It should stop just fine fitting a servo makes it a little easier to stop.

Thanks Andy

When I get permisson from the owner I will post the whole picture of 02CC12 taken in about 1980. (the one I posted was only a quarter. Shows some great detail. At least I am now 100% on which squadron it was with at that time .

My dilemma now is which colour sceme to choose. I now have a steel water carrier on the left rear wing ( I was informed by an ex hussar that on exercise they used to put it on the ashes of the fire last thing to give them some warm water in the morning...)

That could be nasty if a fuel can was put on the fire in error .... Boom !

Does you're Ferret still have the front left hand bin with the indentation for the spare wheel?

Did the design change?

Mines now got new brakepipes / flexis and new linings !! Will it stop !!

Does you're Ferret still have the front left hand bin with the indentation for the spare wheel?

Funny you should mention that - One of the odd things about the photo is that it shows the front left bin with an ANGLED rear face , but the ferret nowadays has a bin with a SQUARE end on it - . (at 90 degrees to the hull) The same as the new ferrets on page 30 of Pat Wares book (onn the production line).

I was stood comparing the photos then and now and that was the main difference. I thought it had just been messed around with, but the bin appears correct and gloss green on the inside. ie not a home made job.

Whats your opinion on this difference? Perhaps it just had a new bin fitted at some point since the photo. ?

I remember it well I was on all those exercises , spearpont I was an umpire for it! we did not have much spare time, I was there when the Hell on wheels droped (umpire with two officers from the Austrlian Army (ASAS regt) what a sight!

Big Al

I know its an old thread, but as an umpire were were nipping about in a Mk1/1 ferret?

That is an awesome website. It appears largely to postdate my time (just) but I am amazed for example at the detail of what happened on Crusader 80, right to to blue and Orange forces and phases of the battle, from Orange assault from the direction of Brunswick to Goodwood, when Blue recce drew the Orange forces into a massive killing zone and destroying the Orange assault, then the counterattack, right down to the days.

 

This site is going to keep me occupied for weeks (not least because I shall have to translate it) and I hope to find a picture of myself commanding a Ferret on Crusader, when I distinctly remember being asked if I'd mind being photographed for a magazine.

I have seen a few pictures of ferrets on there - but you do have to trawl through them bit by bit.

There are also a few videos on there too.

Jim

....so you wanna buy a saracen eh?, ...well where shall I start?:-\

 

Firstly, usually they are cheaper than Ferrets, oddly enough, so you get a lot for your money, but you can get a lot of problems for your money too, so beware!..Saracens have a somewhat complicated hydraulic system, unlike Ferrets, and components such as the gearbox and transfer box are very labour intensive to change, and obviously, because of the extra set of wheels, axle 'wind-up' can be more of a problem, -rain never stops me from going out to play in mine as a wet road can help minimise a lot of axle 'wind up', due to the tyres slipping slightly on the wet roads.

 

You are quite correct in thinking it's not much more than taking on a Ferret, it does all depend on which Mk, you go for as some, (like my Mk5), do not have opening side hatches on either side of the drivers' position, like you do in a Ferret.

This tends to limit peripheral vision to a rectangle about 2 and a 1/2" by 4", due to the angle of the vision blocks, making 'T' Junctions a little awkward.

The Saracen is quite a bit wider on the road, just about taking up 1/2 the width of most smaller 'A' roads, and most 'B' roads. They don't accelerate, so much as gather speed 'gracefully', but in fine fettle will keep up with most traffic. I've fitted truck mirrors to mine, and rearward visibility is probably better than most 7.5 ton box bodied lorries.... All of the 6x6 Alvis FV600 series vehicle tend to 'wander' to a small degree, this is down to the steering arrangement, -4 front wheels steering, it is easily overcome by slight, continuous corrective input through the steering wheel...you soon get used to it, and are soon flicking the gentle giant around with ease.

They don't like wet cobbles, but then I don't think any wheeled vehicle does!

When it rains you seem to stay drier than in a Ferret, because the 'bonnet' does tend to throw any spray upwards to the unfortunate commander -if you are using one (highly recommended on your 1st few journeys onto the Queens highway!).

Fuel consumption, I find is slightly more than a Ferret, but not painfully so, and is better if you can keep up momentum. Unfortunately they can be a bit of a slog when you get a steepish hill with no run-up.

As you can see from my accompanying pictures, I can recover my fuel costs by getting passengers to pay for the fuel, weddings, proms etc, all perfectly legal as long as they are friends and you don't make a profit, (-wink, wink)

 

The other pictures are before restoation, and after..... but I still have minor bits and bobs to attend to....

 

As regards maintenance! well again, where does one start?.....I'd compare it to working on 3 Ferguson tractors crammed into a large metal box, that is just not quite big enough to hold them...it's almost as if the hull was built around its contents!:undecided:

Tyres- 11.00-20 and 12.00-20 Dunlop Trakgrips, are hard to find, and expensive when you do find them, but modern replacements with different tread pattern are available.

 

All this said, I'll never part with mine, as it was a childhood dream come true. I may not get many miles to the gallon, but I get loads of 'smiles' to the gallon.

There can be some headaches, -but you take the pills. -or rather sit down with copius cups of coffee and all the EMER books you can get your hands on...and you methodically sort the problem.

 

If you do your own maintenance on your Ferret, then if you have the room, there is no reason why you shouldn't manage a Saracen..... if you get one, try to go for one that is already registered, and hopefully a pre-1960 one!.... There could be problems looming for this type/size of vehicle if it's a younger one. Also some area DVLA offices are getting rather strict on registering 'overwidth' vehicles- the Saracen being one of them! That said if you do get an unregistered one, just use Portsmouth DVLA branch, a very understanding lot they are!

 

Hope this is of some help, feel free to pass any more queries on the subject my way....

 

and one more piece of advice....

-GO FOR IT!, -

YOU WON'T REGRET IT!!!:-D

 

Best of Luck

I quite fancy one myself having read that ! Do I need an HGV licence ? I passed my test in 1982 and can drive a 7.5 tonne goods vehicle - where would I stand with this type of vehicle?

Jim

15/19H followed 1RTR around the RAC Arms Plot in the 1970s. I believe we took over from them in Omagh in 1974 when they went to Tidworth and reroled as Recce. When we left Omagh in 1976, we handed over to 9/12L and again took over from 1RTR in Tidworth and they went to BAOR as a divisional Armd Recce Regt. In 1977 we again handed over to 9/12L and went to BAOR as 3 Armd Div Armd Recce Regt.

 

For my first three years in BAOR, I was in Command Troop, spending two exercise seasons crewing rebroadcast Ferrets exactly like these.

 

The role of the Ferrets was thus:

 

callsign 95 was RSM

callsign 98 was Command Troop Sergeant in rebroadcast Ferret 1

callsign 98A was Command Troop rebroadcast Ferret 2

callsign ... er 92? 93? was LO, but this vehicle only ever deployed once during my time, on Exercise Javelin / Spearpoint / Crusader 80 when we were all umpires and used a bespoke callsign sytem.

 

The two Medium Recce Squadrons each had a Mark 1 for the Squadron Sergeant Major, being callsign 19C, 29C or 39C depending on which two squadrons in the regiment were Medium recce.

 

So your vehicle was certainly one of these Ferrets. Since you mention an HQ Squadron diamond, it would have been one of the first four, which makes sense since we see the Ferret escorting the colours. I was going to pick you up on referring to a standard, but I remembered that I believe RTR do indeed have a standard and only cavalry regiments have guidons.

 

The four Command Troop Ferrets were identically equipped and (in 15/19H) interchanged roles if necessary so ensure we kept three of them on the road. The radio fit was two times SR C42 until the arrival of Clansman during this period when the fit was two times UK/VRC353. This enabled the rebro Ferrets to position themselves strategically and double the range of a command net by receiving on one frequency on one set and transmitting it on on the other set. I can explain this in more detail if you want.

 

As I have said on another thread recently, these Ferrets all had a Three-Oh Browning, mounted on the mount you see in your picture. We NEVER carried the Three-Oh, if only because the vehicle mount (not shown) was not suitable for ground mounting and would have been obstructed by the user-mod commander's windscreen anyway.

 

As to why it carried no spare wheel, I have absolutely no idea. I never went anywhere without a spare wheel, and I did several parades in Ferrets, including an UNFICYP medal parade and a parade for the 15/19H Colonel of the Regiment (a titular post sitting between Commanding Officer and Colonel in Chief (in our case HRH The Princess Margaret)).

Thanks - thats excellent info. The REBRO phrase cropped up on some posts off another forum:

Some of the posts:

1. There is a good chance it was a Command Troop vehicle, possibly that used by Mac McLaren and driver Harry Wilding, sometimes also by myself, as the Rebro vehicle.

I will have a look through my fozzies ans see what I can find. Further, I recall that the SSM's had Ferrets Mk I in Herford.

2. It could have been the one that I drove the then RSM Don Donabie on exercise in Schleswig Holstein in early '77 which means it was a Command troop Ferret as Chris has mentioned.

3. I was driving geoff lyman at that time me thinks as well, but bugger if i can remember the reg, but as it is at the front presume it is Command troops

4. Looking at the photograph I think all 3 ferrets in the photo are probably all the sqn SSM vehicles from the sabre sqns.

5. Chris. (1) How right you are.I am now looking at a photo of said ferret with me on top talking to some dignatary on a visit.Col. Blacker is there with Prof Riding and Neil Hall. I think it was taken by Dave Hardy. I am trying to get image as we speak.

That last comment was how I got the photo !. Do the above comments add up ?

jim

Hi All. Can any one help? I am trying to find pictures and history on two Scimitars. Does anyone have any pictures of 04FD16 and 03FD06 and are these vehicles still in one piece in private ownership? A new chap came to sit next to me in work and these were his first vehicles when new. Thanks in advance. Ed (Jimmygmc4)

I found lots of RTR tank (scorpion / schimitar ? pics on

http://www.rtr.org.uk/albums.htm

and

http://www.1rtr.net/frontpage.html

and

http://m136.de/wordpress/

The last one is a german website with lots of pics taken during BAOR exercises - they are listed by exercise name down the lower left hand side of the home page , when the list of execrcises comes up start with the ones with union jacks and the word galerie - Gallery - has all the pics.

Good luck

Ditto that as well

Whey Hey !!!

Its gets better - The above photo has led me to another - a close up of Ferret 02CC12, its driver and two other RTR crew being inspected / spoken to by Colenel Jeremy Blacker . I will post the whole picture as soon as I get approval from the pic owner. It shows 02CC12 with a diamond triangle (headquarters squadron) on the hull and a mount of some sort on the front - i presume its a gun mount

can anyone tell me what the mount is for and why would it be on parade without its spare wheel?

There is a partial numberplate visible from a ferret mk 1/1 parked next to it if anyone has an ex RTR ferret Mk 1/1

In that case my opinion of this vehicle is turned on its head. Sounds like a most worthwhile vehicle to own for its oddity value. Until now I was blissfully unaware there ever was a Mark 2/7 but it makes perfect sense, like mating Scorpion hull and Fox turret to create Sabre, functionally identical to Scimitar. It'll catch a few people out at shows.

 

Hmm. £85,000,000 on the Euromillions tonight. I am so glad I checked earlier that I have a ticket. Gotta be in it to win it. If there is one vehicle I'd like to own, it's a Ferret. With an £85,000,00 firtune I'd even lend it to somebody in here with an open chequebook to do the restoring.

After looking at the ferret yesterday , its tempting but after sleeping on it ITS BECOME MORE TEMPTING !

I am still only half way through my first ferret , but already I am thinking about another. Its a definite case of FERRETITIS

If it oficially a 2/7 then it is 98% complete, As a 2/6 its sadly lacking !

If Mark 2/6 was the Vigilant variant, Clansman would be entirely inappropriate. By 1976, the ATGM variant in service was the Mark 5 with Swingfire, replaced by CVR(T) Striker in the Armd Recce Regt and a version of FV432 which currently escapes me in the Armd Regt. My recollection of BG ATGM provision in the late 70s (15/19H's Swingfire shoot in July 1977 was to be the last time the RAC fired ATGM before that provision passed to the RA - it may have come back in-house later) is that J Bty 3RHA (IIRC) provided 15/19H BG with Swingfire in Strikers.

 

Clansman did not start to roll out to BAOR until about 1979 - 80.

 

Of course this assumes that this vehicle is a Mark 2/6 as stated in the title. I am not entirely convinced. Even so, the Mark 2 was not widely employed once CVR(T) came into service in the early / mid 70s. I can only think of the Cyprus Armoured Car Squadron and the UNFICYP Force Reserve Squadron. NI perhaps? Fox arrived in NI in the late 70s to replace the Mark 2 Ferret and I'd guess NI got Fox before Clansman.

 

I cannot see Cyprus getting Clansman early. Cyprus was a logistical backwater. Bazz may well have a comment here as ISTR he was with the Armoured Car Squadron in 1985 and could not source Saladin parts because the RAOC thought it had been retired until they took a picture with dated newspaper in front of Saladin.

 

Certainly in the mid-70s the wider debate was replace Ferret in the Armd Car Regt with CVR(T) in the Armd Recce Regt or replace Larkspur with Clansman: we couldn't afford both and we rolled out CVR(T) and CVR(W) before Clansman.

On this photo you can just see the turret mods.

If Mark 2/6 was the Vigilant variant, Clansman would be entirely inappropriate. By 1976, the ATGM variant in service was the Mark 5 with Swingfire, replaced by CVR(T) Striker in the Armd Recce Regt and a version of FV432 which currently escapes me in the Armd Regt. My recollection of BG ATGM provision in the late 70s (15/19H's Swingfire shoot in July 1977 was to be the last time the RAC fired ATGM before that provision passed to the RA - it may have come back in-house later) is that J Bty 3RHA (IIRC) provided 15/19H BG with Swingfire in Strikers.

 

Clansman did not start to roll out to BAOR until about 1979 - 80.

 

Of course this assumes that this vehicle is a Mark 2/6 as stated in the title. I am not entirely convinced. Even so, the Mark 2 was not widely employed once CVR(T) came into service in the early / mid 70s. I can only think of the Cyprus Armoured Car Squadron and the UNFICYP Force Reserve Squadron. NI perhaps? Fox arrived in NI in the late 70s to replace the Mark 2 Ferret and I'd guess NI got Fox before Clansman.

 

I cannot see Cyprus getting Clansman early. Cyprus was a logistical backwater. Bazz may well have a comment here as ISTR he was with the Armoured Car Squadron in 1985 and could not source Saladin parts because the RAOC thought it had been retired until they took a picture with dated newspaper in front of Saladin.

 

Certainly in the mid-70s the wider debate was replace Ferret in the Armd Car Regt with CVR(T) in the Armd Recce Regt or replace Larkspur with Clansman: we couldn't afford both and we rolled out CVR(T) and CVR(W) before Clansman.

Yes its a 2/6. The data plate states

CONTRACT NUMBER FV 3891

VEHICLE NUMBER NUMBER 06EB51

SCOUT CAR RECCE VIGILANT FV 703 MK 2/6 TYPE A

It can be read on my copy of the picture of the data plate. It also has the mofification to the turret and extra aerial boxes at the rear.

The radio equipment for sale there varies , I bought a telephone type handset for £5 with lead. A clansman 353 was about £80 - dont know if they work. You can get the 349 with headphone etc for £35 and there are lots of other goodies (switch boxes and power supplies etc). If anyone want more pics please PM me with your email address.

HI

I have been to Withams today to view their Feb tender. Here are some pics of the Mark 2/6 ferret that is up for offer. Its pretty rough. The turret spins and the tyres look reasonable but the rest is quite rough. The engine cover have been snapped off because the hinges were seized, The engine may be too. Some parts are missing off the engine. the inside looks complete and the gearbox may be a recent (?) replacement ?

Some of the corrosion on the hull and turret is quite deep .

I took a picture of the data plate for future reference.

The Humber pig they have is very rotten , but I doubt it will make much. They have a lot of radio equipment that is not in the tender and is available quite cheaply.

Hello All

I have been tracking down any leads on pictures of my ferret 02CC12 - and I think I have found one !!

Mine was with the 1st RTR in Germany up to their leaving in 1982. They had a leaving parade and there were 3 MK 1 ferrets escorting the standard. I have now been supplied with a better picture of the 3 ferrets in the parade - apparantly mine is the 3rd one, and appears in the "Tank" journal of the RTR feb 1983.

There is a clear shot of another ferret (Mark 1/1) whose reg appears to be 35BA56 or 34BA56 - difficult to make out.

Has anyone got or seen any similar pics of this parade???

Many thanks for the pics I have something similar to to with my gearbox I haven't made any decisions about replacing the bands yet but its something that I will seriously consider doing now.

If its only the bands that are worn, I think that you could leave the transfer box assembly intact, as long as you have a strong crane. I took mine off because I followed the manual , but the manual goes on to do a complete strip down.

If its just the bands its less work. I was curious to see the condition of the gears etc , all look like new !

I was concerned about the forward / reverse setup but it is like new - so I replacing the bush in the bottom of the forward / reverse lever (a new bush cost me £1) - With a lot of the free play removed then hopefully the only problems I will have selecting reverse will be down to my technique !

Jim

Thanks Jim, very kind of you....Looking at those pics was a little scary!.... seems I have a long lost twin!!!:wow:

I dont know how much work is involved in taking your box out - loads probably but I am sure it will be worth it. If we are twins , please dont make youself known until AFTER the will has been read .... Good luck !!

:-X

Did you reline it yourself or have it done? What was used for the band material? Details if you please. Thank You. Bob

Hi

I bought the replacement bands off Banisters in the uk , (excellent service) They provided the bands and appropriate rivets. (The rivets are in several different lengths, due to the brake band being thicker and thinner in places requiring different length rivets. I de- riveted the bands , removed them and riveted the new ones on - its a slow process but do - able ! The finished band is sipposed to be machined "round" to a certain diameter - I dont have access to a bif emough lathe so will fit bands as is and allow them to wear to shape.

The auto adjusters are a work of art and I backed mine off and spent a happy 30 minutes operating the gear change lever on the box with a length of tube , happily watching them take up the slack! !

I have not done everything by the book , but bearing in mind the condition df some of the other parts on the vehicle, this is a good job. The rest of the gearbox looked in good condition, and a good clean out will have benefited it. SAFETY FIRST THOUGH - WATCH THE BUSBAR SPRING AND WEAR A MASK !!

I got round the problem by straightening the band and relining it - Hopefully it only got hot because someone was riding the gear selector pedal and creating a "slip" situation, the end of the band could not absorb the heat generated and warped. The lining material was worn very thin at this point.

The most important thing to remember if tackling this job is that it is all very heavy - an engine crane is really useful, BE VERY CAREFUL WITH THE MAIN BUSBAR SPRING - it is held down by a cover held by 6 bolts. You have to replace two of the bolts with some threaded rod and a couple of nuts to allow the tension to be release slowly, if you simply remove all 6 bolts you might lose your teeth or worse as they are not long enough to relieve all the spring tension. Follow the manual closely. And also remember the linings you are using to replace the old ones MAY contain asbestos or other nasties - so wear a mask when drilling.

Here are some pics - I have taken lots more so will keep them handy should anyone be interested.

I have loaded some into a webshots website and you can see some of them

Click this link to view.

http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2205444780106092871YNtdCl

Jim

Just had a quick look at what is involved in sorting out my 'no-drive' situation with my saracen, taking out the gearbox is a big job!, so much to take out 1st!,:blush:......I have already bought a new old stock gearbox, in case it needs taking out, but just wondering if checking and topping up the fluid flywheel would sort things:undecided:....kept losing drive intermittently, but was fine when left for 10 - 15 minutes, and almost got me home..... the gearbox itself has always been lovely, smooth and quiet, well, quiet for a 50odd year old design anyway.... Anyone know what oil I put in the flywheel? as I cannot for the life of me find my service schedule..... is it OM13, or OMD75, or auto tranmission fluid?.......I may be able to post a picture of the inside of the top of the gearbox, showing the brake band adjustment mechanisms etc,- in case anyone more clued up than me can give an on-line diagnosis,

 

Any serious help/comments would be very gratefully recieved,-were these vehicles gearboxes renowned for problems like this in service?:cheesy:

I am at the latter stages of relining the brake bands on my ferret. If its the same type of box I would not hesitate in recommending you rip it out and fix it.

If you are a good home mechanic it can be done with some good advice - and the cost doesn't have to be massive. (sorry about the hat)

Here are some pics - You will need somewhere warm to do it and gear to lift it out - I'm lucky with the ferret as it came out the top -The adjusters are reasonably straight forward. PM if you want any info.

Jim

Ive got new old stock forgot what I payed for them make me a good offer to take them out of my personal stock?

Laurence:cool2::-D

Thanks Laurence

Yours is the only response I received and since posting the problem a few days ago I have successfully (I hope) straightened the band and relined it - Box is almost back together now - am working on the brake band adjusters.

Thanks for the offer

Jim

Another great picture - A ferret escorting Iraq POW's in the gulf 1991.

"WINGLESS VICTORY "

Basil Embry..

True story - shot down near St Omer , captured 3 times by the germans and eventually made his way home . Great stuff - read it 5 times.

Can anyone tell me what the big black triangle means , its painted at the back of this Saracen?

I dont know anything about markings !!

Hi All,

I have recently found a ferret in a scrap yard, unfortunately a lot of the parts were missing and I am doing it up. The number is 34 BA 57 and it is a runner.

Bob

Hello Bob

Hi - Sorry I could not help with a pic of you ferret , but welcome to this friendly place!

Jim

Hello

I am a new member too , and after only 2 weeks of membership I have been made to feel welcome and have had some great advice !! Its a very friendly place to be and seems to be full of genuine help.

However , please dont ask me for a tow as I wont be able to oblige ..:-D