steveo578

yes used them for some years now as a general day to day storage and a larger one which is used as a weekly update -sounds extreme but I spent 2 months trawling through a damaged internal hard drive extracting files using a file recovery software -20gb of which about 4gb was lost to a faulty hard drive disk -including college work -fortunately after graduation.:wow:

 

Currently using a Freecom and a Maxtor, both usb2-both even work on older usb1, neither of which have given a moment problem -for the most part any of the main brands are good and are really inexpensive 1.5TB can but gotten for about £60 if you look around the internet.

ajmac Allies First KingTiger Encounter

I know that the British Army first encountered the KingTiger in Europe (presume Normandy), but what I haven't got a handle on it how well briefed our Tankers and AT people were on this vehicle.

There were Kingtigers (porshe turreted) in HQ Batalion and Company 1 of 503 at normandy but did not engage, most being neutralised by bombing. Most British tank units that had not served in Italy prior to service at Normandy seem to be blissfully unware of superior German -although quite a number of old timers reckoned the defeat in the west in 1940 had been down to superior German equipment.

 

Tanks such as Tiger and Panther had been analized by british intelligence during 1943 -certainly the British had full access to eraly Panthers captured by the Soviets at Kursk and possibly one had been handed to the British in the fall of 1943 along with other tanks which one may have been the highly secret Pz38(t):wow: -already evaluated by the British in 1939.

 

Intelligence doesn't seem to have filtered down to tank troop level in addition the the Goodwood book -Peter Beale book on the 9th RTR mentions that troopers were visibly shaken by the first sight of a recovered Tiger 1.

woa2

Correct me if I am wrong,

the porshe turreted tiger 2 at bovington was 1 of a number of vehicles captured at the henschel test facility at Hustenbeck along with another Porshe turreted tiger 2 with a blown 8.8cm gun the protype Sfl Grille a tiger component 17cm SPG chassis and a Jagtiger. Elsewhere on this site were the prototype E100, an early Tiger 1 and runner VK3001(H) or Vk3601(H).

 

The facility was captured by the US Army in late April 1945 -they are known to have played with 1 of the Tiger 2 and Jagdtiger. The facility being in the British occupation zone was subsequently handed to the British and certainly 1 porsche turreted tiger 2, the JagdTiger, Grille and E100 were returned to Britain for tests -where Grille and E100 were scrapped- it is said E100 was last seen at Pounds or another south coast naval scrap yard. The Early tiger was heavily tested, especially its submersible capablity but I am unsure whether these tests took place in UK or Germany.

Obviously ficticous -two man crew (over manned) and seven wheels of three different tyre sizes (far too complicated logistics).

Look forward to seing them -I came across a few small pics of the SU410 you published in a old copy of AFV news -although the size of the prints don't do the subject justice.

Adrian Barrell

No, it's not. It left Germany three or four years ago.

 

Thanks for the clarification -I take it a read the restoration was only cosmetic.:???

rosie

......Because he is watching 'The only is Essex' :shocked::nut::shocked::nut::shocked::nut:

 

could be worse he could be watching soaps such as coronation street, eastenders or even emerdale:mad::mad::mad:.

 

At least Essex (the only way is essex) and the ridiculous Jersey shore are "real life" and have some sociological merit -you got to understand primatives if you want to avoid them:red:.

Pzkpfw-e.

.........The Tiger II in Kubinka broke down for the first time, after only 60 miles,.......So, chances of either of Bov's KTs being returned to running order?....0

 

60miles wasn't too bad all things considered, assuming that both bovington Tigers 2 or three if the Jagdtiger is included have incomplete drive trains perhaps a refurbishment of at loeast one with a commercial or more reliable tank engine might be an idea (can't off hand think of a suitable gearbox due to most post war battle tanks having rear drives.)

 

Whilst it might seem an appauling idea to some it would take the strain off the Tiger 131 as a mobile exhibit.

jchinuk

........There would be a significant cost in actually just moving these tanks about, and what if the 'private' money came from the Middle East, Russia or a German Neo-Nazi, imagine the furore in the popular press if "our" Tiger was shipped out to Dubai or paraded covered in swastikas once a year?

Fair points,

 

I doubt if it turned up in Jordan or the Emirates, assuming there would be any public interest out side of the royal families/armed forces -I doubt that there would be any Nazi/anti/Israeli retoric, Arab inteligencia are far too aware of the damage that Mohammed Amin al-Hussayni's daliance with the Nazis did for the cause of Arab nationalism/independance, I would be more concerned with Neo-nazis in Germany and the Baltic states but happilly I doubt they would have sufficent funds and doubt they would be given any creedance by a western museum -hopefully:undecided:

 

I know the British Museum loans items to museum's around the world, but there have been attempts to repossess such items in the past. Remember both the Americans and the Russians think they won the war without help, so both might think they "deserve" a running Tiger in their museums?

I doubt there would be a problem normally there is an undertaking by major governments -with financial insurance, to prevent this sort of problem, there were some court applications in USA when a number of paintings with dubious provinance were lent by the Hemitage Museum -despite the wide spread belief that "Jews own" the U.S. governance/legal system the cases were ruled as not hearable by the U.S. court.

ArtistsRifles

I thought the King Tiger at Kubinka (Soviet Union) was a runner??

 

I don't know about Kubinka but the Saumur King Tiger was run a few years ago, -as a test -there is a Utube clip knocking about somewhere.

 

As to the APG King Tiger, the sectioned tank was brought in from the cold and given a cosmetic restoration about 10 years ago. in a similar time frame the very early Tiger 1 was sent to Germany on a long term loan -in exchange for its refurbishment- don't know if it's still in Germany -as some realise i'm not a yellow tank fan.

Yes very good ,but lacked historical context, the original Flammenwerfer -a similarily large unwieldly contraption -fired in a high ark trench to trench like a minenwerfer, only worked if the trenches were under 50metres apart, its viablity as weapon was lost as soon as the opposition realised that allowing a sap to be run within the F.T. range could not be permited -similarly the gallery flame thrower could only be used in specific circumstances when ground conditions, relatively dry-relatively un-shelled areas, permited it and the enemy were not counter mining.

 

As to Tony Robsons liberal comment that post war the "dreadful weapon was outlawed" which post war? Vietnam? Soviet invasion of Afghanistan? -ex US back pack flame throwers were even captured during the 1969-99 northern Ireland toubles, not to mention Naplam and FAB weapons.

robin craig

.........I will enquire of the powers that be to produce some pictures and data.

 

Its a foreign tank of early vintage so exact idetification will have to come from you or refurb shop or CWM. Its too early a machine for me to rivet count on!

I look forward to any photos of the refurbishment that you may be able to post.

 

I thought all tanks -apart for a few prototypes were "foriegn" to Canada as a rivet counter the US 6tonner is fairly different from the Renault FT most obvious differences the muffler is on the left side in the US version, various structural differences such as the triangular panels either side of the drivers visor- less apparent it had a complete fire-wall screen between the motor and fight compartment

 

Anyhow a few pics of 6tonners in Canadian service.

Famous pic of tanks for Canada -in this case a 6tonner as a Wireless tank

 

 

In use in training -the older officer in the turret is probably F.F. Worthington -the great man who set up the Canadian Armoured Corps

 

 

excellent links -surprising that they survived so long. some pics of churchills using warflat and ramps

 

 

 

 

 

 

retriever

But fires spread upwards towards the operating mechinism. also may take ages to evacuate a building with more than a few on each floor .

 

Don't knock it;) -nothing is fool proof. But it has some merit -a mininum of one each side of a high building may make a big difference to survivability beyond the reach of fire service ladder escape equipment, especially if there is an internal fire block to evacutaion of upper floors -as happened in WTC, at least the designers have given thought to the need for multiple floor evacuation and the need to protect passengers from heat and fire, -I'm impressed:-D and I'm not easily impressed.

robin craig

Interestingly some of those did not end up getting cut up.

 

It is well documented that some of the Renault tanks were declared scrap and actually ended up in Canada at the begining of the war ........

They were transfered as scrap to conform (avoid causing political interest/scrutiny) with the policy restricting transfer of US Army equipment to beligerant powers, at a time when Congress was debating whether to tighten up war purchases or allow a favoured status for the UK and Commonwealth/Empire.

 

It would be nice to see some pics of the 6ton tank being restored -I assume it is a M1917 rather than one of the few (50 +) Renault FT used in France by AEF.

I could certainly use a 4-10 on Alex the Meirkat:mad:

LUCAS ENGLAND

Reminds me of the clip of the Panther vs Lee/Grant clip.larger road wheels have it.

Doesn't necessarily follow -the Churchill with almost a centipede of tiny road wheels, restricted suspension travel and far lower power/weight ratio would have taken that step without any problem. Many factors are relevant -not least but rarely mentioned are the design of the track -the relative position of the idler in relation to the nose of the tank and the loading-C of G etc

ajmac

The long drawn out development period for the Cromwell perhaps tells why it was reasonably good

The Cromwell A27M was regarded as very good when it was tested at Farnborough in March 1942, the problem was the Rolls Royce Merlin was still the main British aircraft engine and the Liberty A27L was developed as an interim with the Meteor as a long term solution when faclitity could be developed.

 

The photo of the T184005 centaur is interesting is the gun a early 95mm howitzer? and if so it seems even shorter than expected.

eddy8men

i thought they came into production in 43

 

That's correct -it took the British longer get production going on the Cromwell whereas the US managed to get production of the M4A1 going by February 1942

I do wonder how much of historical value has been lost apart for a few T1-2 and 4 light tanks combat cars some of which failed to survive but were of little value in engineering training terms to be retained for future reference -which something APG were quite good at doing during and imediately after WW2.

 

One of the guns could be classed as important was the 42cm howitzer the so called Big (fat) Bertha of which 2 were captured by the AEF in 1918 both are reputed to be returned to the USA and if the film is contemporary and by the vehicles and clothing of workers it is, this shows the "missing" big Bertha being cut up -anyone got an idea where it was? -it looks like an officer training academy. The other Big Bertha remained at APG until it was said to be scrapped in another scrap drive in the 1950s. But the 42cm BB howitzer is a nice historical example it was little value to ordnance engineers -in actuallity it was pretty poor, famous for reducing the Lieg fortresses in 1914 -fortresses that were masonary and out of date even before they were finished, it struggled to be of use during other seiges in WW1 -having a spare barrel for each piece due to its tendancy to blow barrels something common for cannons but never should happen in a Howitzer.

eddy8men

nice clip, i'm glad the cromwell did well but then again it was built after the sherman so it's not surprising really,

6¾months:whistle: prototype by prototype 1st M4 -an M4A1 runnng at Aberdeen on 20-9-41 and Cromwell meteor engined prototype running at Farnbough on 19-3-42, 2 months before the A24 Cavalier turned up for its trials. so basically they were contemporaneous.

abn deuce

In the articial I read over here it said that it was built of one piece of aluminum ?

IMO more journalistic b******ks -it possible that they have mis-interperated some use of new (for 1932) airframe design/ building techniques such as overall stressed aluminum skin and framing as opposed to mixed fabric/metal structure. The only thing of note for the DO17 was early use of self sealing fuel cells/tanks, the curious incidence of the wing in relation to the fuselage - high set on the leading edge to mid set on the trailing edge and semi-circular wing tips- whether the wing tips had any value I don't know -it might have been a recognition feature rather than aero-dynamic -as it was DO17s were sometimes confused with H.P Hampdens.

While I can't be sure of the origin of "annous" with regard to its use by 1st Btn RTR. It is also a fairly common Palestinian familly name now common worldwide as well as in the levant and in the Emirates -There were several names in 1RTR 1944 lists that have middle eastern, arabic or persian origin. 1Btn RTR served in Eygpt.

It's the grass that gets me -considering how small 1-76 is 4mm = 1 foot the quality is superb:thumbsup:

AFAIK the only A7Vs to be recovered to UK were an unarmoured cargo carrier and two A7V called Hagen and Schnuck. Both tanks were brought to London were Hagen was put on display on Horse Guards during 1919 -its fate is unknown. Schnuck went to IWM then at Crystal Palace and it and a good number of tanks and AFVs were displayed until 1920 when IWM moved to its present site -the tanks thought to be of no value were cut up in the grounds of Crystal Palace, Schnuck was even photographed being broken up and the photo reproduced in a London newspaper.

 

The unarmoured cargo carrier went to Aldershot and was never seen again, so probably scrapped or targeted.

 

Of the others known to be captured Herkules was testedd and disposed of in France. Elfreide went to Paris -fate unknown. Nike II to APG and survived probably until 1940. Mephisto to Australia and is now the only survivor.

 

Several A7V were located in Germany and survived until the early 1920 when the disarmament commision had them scrapped -included were 2 signal tanks completed as riot control tanks and were used to put down communist uprising in Berlin, Liepzig and Halle