BenHawkins

As mentioned on another thread we are preparing for future projects. There were a few hours spare this afternoon so we got the paint stripper out and started to clean the green paint off the valve caps and distributor drive. Under the green was red paint from its past life in a Liverpool salvage tender.

We decided the London to Brighton run was too optimistic for 2019. Clayton hill has a 13.6% maximum gradient and we were unable to get up the 17% gradient nearest our house.

There have been lots of things to concentrate on so we have been catching up on other projects and making preparations for future projects.

Some progress has been made on the Dennis though, the universal joint gaiter has nicer looking clamps.

I got fed up with starting handle blisters from the split wooden sleeve so have turned up a new one in brass. Generally both this and the Morris car are starting first time (and I sometimes remember to put on a glove) so I have been blister free for several months.

And we have added a crude choke return spring. A couple of the previously unexplained stops turn out to have been the choke being sucked closed; once the engine stopped the flap would drop open again so it was difficult to spot the cause until the occasion where we managed to keep the engine going long enough to spot it.

This weekend we have probably driven another ten miles or so, starting with a simple circuit locally with many of my visiting relatives taking short rides. We still can't manage the 17% incline from a standing start but with the improved reliability we took a drive into the town up an incline of around 11% with no trouble at all.

We still have fine silt coming out in the petrol filter but there is not enough to be a problem now if we clean it out every ten miles. I imagine this service interval will increase as we use it more. The Claudel Hobson has a 1.1mm jet so is fairly immune to fine particulates but the Zenith I have rebuilt has a much smaller orifice in the slow running device and may be more susceptible to blockages so we will persist with the Claudel until the fuel is coming through a little cleaner.

One of the Zenith carbs I found had the float weights retained with small nails; these had rusted solid in into the weights and it was impossible to extract them. I was not is a rush to recover these components so we immersed them in a solution of Aluminium Ammonium Sulphate for around four months; there was no damage to any of the brass and just a small amount of black sediment to remove from the holes. Thought this trick might be useful to other people with ferrous parts rusted into brass as drilling out is rarely satisfactory.  

Wow, it has been a year since the chassis arrived and I have only really managed to do research!

I decided to have a scrub at the side of the chassis to see if I could find the chassis number in this location. No luck, but after rubbing through the top layer of greyish paint the Carter Paterson red is exposed.

I like the idea of restoring this one as a commandeered lorry made into a mobile workshop. So when I saw this Austin lighting set I had to add it to the collection (I do like T head engines with separate cylinders).

It needs quite a lot of work as the water jackets are split, it has the wrong carb and has been converted to coil ignition. The dynamo is just as bad; seized, missing the rotor windings, commutator and brushes. Quite a lot of research to be done on this one too.

So it is a compound wound, 1200RPM 110Vdc 27A 3kW generator connected to what appears to be two cylinders from a 10HP 4 cylinder Austin built in 1914. Now I need to try to work out how the armature should be wound, I guess I should start by looking at the one in Duxford. Does anyone have any photos or information?

I forgot to say that I have finished making the missing jets, covers, screws etc. for the Zenith carb.

I will try to drive a few more miles with the Claudel before fitting this one. 

We have continued to tinker over the past month despite the cold conditions. Another job off the list was fitting the door pocket covers.

We had some friends over a couple of weeks ago and they helped us fit a ceiling in the garage. This should reduce the risk of anything from the loft space falling on the vehicles and now I have added some insulation it is also possible to get it several degrees hotter than outside. This was useful when sewing up the gaiter for the rear universal joint as it had to be sewn in-situ. I need to trim the leather at the front and find some more appropriate pipe clips.

We used up all of the first batch of petrol. Draining it out the tank several times and passing it through a filter collected plenty of sediment but by the time we were down to the last gallon it was quite a brown colour. 

On ‎1‎/‎31‎/‎2019 at 10:53 PM, Tomo.T said:

I look forward to reading about the progress on this project and will have to look in this location for a number on my Thornycroft chassis.

The Morris is a bit of a distraction but I am trying to maintain some progress on the Dennis. We had another day of driving it around as the weather was good and there was no salt on the roads.

After running around for a while we emptied the petrol filter bowl into a jam jar. The one on the left is new clean petrol and on the right shows particulates and a little water. No stoppages today which is a definite improvement but I think I will continue to flush the contaminated fuel through a filter each week and burn all this brown fuel off before putting fresh fuel in.

I have been making the covers for the door pockets. Starting with the leather off cuts from the seat cushions I used a cardboard template to mark out the leather and started to stitch the edges.

After stitching the whole way around I treated them with some leather balm.

Sorry for the lack of updates. This has mainly been due to concentrating on other projects such as clearing some space in the garage and workshop so we can move on to the next projects. I have flushed the same couple of gallons of petrol through the system on numerous occasions and the level of particulates has greatly reduced.

We have bought ourselves a Christmas present (one of the reasons we needed to tidy). It is a 1913 Morris car and said to have been laid up from WWI until 1970 (when restored) and had occasional use since. I can't imagine any were used in WWI so we have little excuse for posting it!

1 minute ago, nz2 said:

Is there a date for this book?

Unfortunately it is undated.

We have taken a few more trips and can get further between stops for clearing the fuel filter each time. Next time it is convenient we will attempt the canal bridge again and see if it is any better now the fuel is cleaner.

In case that is not successful I have been considering swapping the Claudel Hobson carb that came with the engine for a Zenith. The Claudel is a simple single jet carb; the one fitted is a 22mm but this size refers to the bore of the throttle barrel; the Zenith size is the bore into which the choke tube is fitted. There is a lot of documentation available for the Zenith carbs; for example this gives the suggested fitment of carburettor, choke tube and jets.

For the 75mm bore engine the 26mm carb with 16mm choke tube is recommended. However this carburettor is quite a lot smaller than my inlet manifold; mechanically a 36mm would be the correct fit for the flange but a 30 could be fitted with an adaptor.

I have borrowed a box full of Zenith carburettors but none are in a serviceable condition. There is a 30mm carb in the box and I have given it a clean, purchased the suggested jets (I don't make everything) and made the suggested 16mm choke tube. There is another part to make for the slow running device.

And finally for this week a testimonial.

Today I was looking in some Dennis literature and found the testimonial referring to the subsidy model.

On ‎9‎/‎30‎/‎2018 at 8:37 PM, nz2 said:

I have a marinised M4. It would be interesting to have a copy of the manual to compare particularly for the starting mechanism.. Mine has a chain drive fron the front pulley to shaft running along the top of the engine with a small crank handle then attached.Overall condition is not good.

Sorry it has taken so long; a scan of the book is attached.

Thornycroft M Engines.pdf

On ‎10‎/‎14‎/‎2018 at 9:39 PM, David Herbert said:

Looks great but if it rains, any rain stopped by the windscreen runs down it onto your feet ! I am glad things have moved on !

David

There is far more rain protection than was typical for 1914 but certainly room for improvement.

The fixings for the windscreen and canvas supports were blasted and painted this week so we managed to make some more progress with fitting those.

As the weather was very good this weekend we decided to have another go at driving around. We took it for several trips out on the road with only one unscheduled stop where we had to clear some water and debris from the filter bowl. Overall I think we covered a little over three miles. 

We did a fair bit of tinkering with the Claudel Hobson carburettor; the Aster engine is half the power of the White and Poppe originally fitted to this chassis and it does show out on the road. It is fast when it gets up to speed in 4th (over 25mph) but does take a while to get there.

From a standing start we were unable to climb the 1:6 gradient of the local canal bridge, but on a positive note the handbrake had no trouble holding it on the slope. We tried changing the carburettor jet from 120 to 130 (purchased at Beaulieu) but I thought the performance on the level was worse so I did not attempt the bridge again!

Once we were done for the day we adjusted up the handbrake and but it back in the garage. Today we have drained the fuel out again but jacked one side up to get a bit more out the tank and removed the additional drain plug on the bottom of the tank releasing a little move sludge and water.

Quite a successful first road run but certainly still improvements to be made.

We have been working through the list of tasks, many are not worth photos. The second seat base cushion was made in the same way and looks quite nice in place; I might need to screw a couple of battens in place to prevent them from moving around.

The windscreen brackets have been in the press another few times to get the shape right. We then bolted them in place and offered up the windscreen.

I was then able to drill through the pilot holes to mark up the positions for six coach bolts.

After drilling and filing it all looks like the factory photo.

We then took it all off again so we could blast and prime the bolts. It has just stopped raining but the light is fading so a test drive will have to wait for another day!

In the selection of drawings we looked at in Hampshire were marinised versions of the T4 engine; this explains where at least some of the engine numbers not in the production registers went.

This book for the marinised version of the M1 M2 and M4 engines; I don't think it is of use to anyone with a J Type but I can scan it in if anyone has a boat project in the shed!

The lorry was blocked into the garage by pallets of bricks this week, I had to work into the evening on three days and was away for the weekend. Hopefully we will have another go at driving it soon. At least we managed to finish the first seat cushion.

The holes in the chassis for mounting the body are clearance for 1/2 bolts. I didn't have any long 1/2" coach bolts so when I saw a box of 36 for sale at 50p each I bought the lot and have started blasting and painting them ready to use.

When Carter Paterson bought this chassis they did not have a Dennis built body but instead chose to take the wheels and axles off one of their horse drawn vans and mount it on the chassis rails. This leads to an uneven spacing of the bearers as there were two spaced fairly far apart at the back that carried the springs and three towards the front that carried the fore-carriage. I have seen a couple of really nice examples of these "London Vans" for sale but they would be too good to break up. I have now placed an advert to see if any rough examples survive but with wheels etc. beyond repair.

I have been buying any early items with Carter Paterson asset tags since I purchased the 1908 Dennis. The Dennis had spade brackets that fit to one side of the side lamps. CP&Co most commonly seem to have used George Grou lamps and checking my stocks I found I had two (fairly poorly) CP&Co stirrup mount lamps; the correct fitment for a Thornycroft. I found another complete Grou side lamp but with the spade mount at the rear (wrong for a Dennis or Thornycroft) to use as a donor. My shelf also had two Grou rear lamps so one can be used on the Thornycroft.

My understanding is that this size of van was used between CP&Co depots (local pickups still being by horse van) and as such no acetylene headlamps were fitted. Only the larger lorries (travelling to Brighton every night for example) were fitted with acetylene lamps.

I have purchased a more appropriate petrol filter funnel but we are currently having some building work done so the vehicles have been blocked in by pallets of bricks and a skip so have not been able to attempt another test drive.

There has been little progress as a result but I have done a few tasks towards the seat cushions. After cutting two layers of horse hair I stitched them together and cut some hessian to wrap them.

Then stitched the hessian around the horse hair.

Marked out two rectangles to suit the cushion on the leather and cut them out.

I have folded the hem around the first rectangle and weighted it down. I had to leave enough space to lay out dinner. Hopefully I will pin the leather to the base one evening this week. 

Picked up this photo of some vehicles of a similar age at the GPO Stores Studd Street depot.

AA2062 Wallis 3NHP Tractor (this is now in preservation) ca. 1906

LD6087 Ryknield Van Ca. 1909

LD992 Halley Van Ca. 1909

O4883 Alldays and Onions Van

DU1205 Maudslay Van

I am still trying to discover as much information on this vehicle as possible. As part of our holiday we booked in to spend a day looking at Thornycroft drawings and records held by the Hampshire Cultural Trust (I take the glamorous assistant to the most romantic locations). I took over three hundred photos of original documents but do not have permission to publish any of them here (yet). We will need to go back as I think we only got through half the boxes of drawings.

The Beaulieu autojumble was also quite useful. I spent slightly too long looking at this photo so the guy on the stand decided I needed it. I don't know anything about "Maid of Kent" tea but they seem to have been loyal Thornycroft customers.

All my Thornycroft parts books show an Enots type petrol filter (without a tap as used on my Dennis lorries) so it was nice to pick one of those up.

All the greasers on the Thornycroft are "Rotherhams of Coventry". I have been buying every one I have seen for the last 12 years for the Dennis projects; each one uses around 80 greasers so finishing the 1908 Dennis will virtually exhaust my stocks. We picked up three to put towards the Thornycroft project, so around another 70 to go.

We discussed this Carter Paterson sign with the vendor and showed them a couple of photos of the projects. They decided we needed all the help we could get (probably psychiatric) and offered me a good discount.

Although we had some other commitments we were able to play lorries for some of this weekend. The lorry started easily and we could drive it out of the garage and shunt it around the yard using 1st and reverse.

We had fitted the seat back but still need to finish the base cushions. 

We made some minor adjustments to the brakes and clutch but after taking it to the end of the drive and reversing back into the yard (the mirrors are just about sufficient for this) the engine came to a stop.

I lifted the needle on the carburettor; it took a while to overflow but I went ahead and started it again. It was happy to idle for about a minute before it stopped again. At this point I decided it was time to remove the filter bowl and discovered a substantial amount of black particulate.

We cleared it out and started the engine again to give us another few minutes of shunting around the yard before we had no fuel again. This time the flow to the filter was also down to a dribble so I removed the pipe and put a 3.5mm drill bit through the hole in the tap on the bottom of the tank to clear some crud from that and regain a gush of fuel.

The brass tank had looked clean inside before I fitted it but I could only see as far as the baffles so there may have been quite a lot of dirt in the end sections that was not water soluble. I expect several months of exposure to petrol in warm weather loosened it and driving around has worked it all free.

I decided to empty the tank; passing all the fuel through a coffee filter.

As we were running out of time we put the filtered fuel back in the tank, started it up again, reversed it back into the garage. However, there was once again some particulate matter in the filter so I think it will take a few goes to get a clean supply of fuel. 

On ‎8‎/‎19‎/‎2018 at 8:16 PM, Old Bill said:

A hammer and pliers on the kitchen table? You'll be in the dog house!

Steve

It helped that I was off to Denmark for a week and then we had a two week holiday! Time to forget about such things, but I was chastised for using the "house scissors".

Rust and swarf in the house still seem to be unforgivable.

The holiday did include some work related to this lorry, I gave a presentation on this project to the Dennis Society and also attended the Beaulieu Autojumble. This meant we had to do the jumble on Sunday so obviously there is less stuff there but you have slightly more bargaining power. We negotiated a bargain on this headlamp which appears to be identical to the one in the photo that turned up recently.

In addition to a few dents and a missing cap it has these cracks around the rim by the catch. I am not sure how to go about fixing these.

We also collected some more belting in case we need it.

I cut the leather for the seat back so that it was two inches wider in both dimensions. That meant I could fold one inch over around the perimeter and hold it down for a day or so. It then wanted to hold its shape; getting it wet may have helped with this but I did not bother as around then ends I was not sure if I wanted a permanent crease.

I then pinned the long edges in place with upholstery nails, using a nylon headed hammer.

When folding the short edges I cut some of the excess leather away to get a tidier finish.

I cut some steel strips, drilled, countersunk, blasted and started to paint them. These will screw to the backrest to it can be fixed to the back of the cab.

I need to follow the same procedure to make the seat cushions. Now I can select all the gears I can make sure the cushions will miss the gear lever.

On ‎8‎/‎14‎/‎2018 at 10:35 PM, Richard Farrant said:

My guess is that this has been placed there while working on the engine so as not to damage the core. I do the same with corrogated cardboard as it is easy for a spanner to slip.

Yes, the idea was to protect the core. I can't decide if I should paint it black and leave it permanently in place in case anything goes wrong with the fan mounting.

Anyway, the fan is now back in place.

The selector gate is now painted and in place; all gears can be selected but I still need to fettle one of the floor board blocks and refit it before we can have another go at taking it for a drive. Without that block the main removable floor panel could slide over and interfere with the gear lever.

We put the bonnet back into position so with the exception of the seat back and windscreen (oh, and the registration number) it looks like the factory photo.