AlienFTM

On 3/30/2019 at 2:31 PM, webkitlover said:

cool many thanks,

BTW anyone know the origins of the word "Ally" meaning cool kit?

I'm assuming it's an abreviation, but of what?

I've looked online and can only find the meaning "allied", I can't think it came from.

Cheers again

It's a new word, introduced after 1989 when I left, replacing "warry".

On 6/25/2021 at 6:50 PM, pickles4uk said:

Hi,

I'm working on a story about a British tank crew during the second world war and I was wondering if someone could tell me the most common ranks of each member, ie gunner, loader, driver and commander.

Commanders: Troop leader, Lieutenant or Second Lieutenant. Early war, the cavalry (not sure about RTR) had WO3 (Troop Sergeant Major). This was dropped early in the war. In the absence of a troop officer, a SSGT might be a troop leader, or the troop sergeant takes on troop leader, and senior corporal plays troop sergeant. Junior troop vehicles would be commanded by Corporals and Lance Corporals. Exceptionally due to shortages, a trooper could command.

The rest of the crew would be junior ranks (Tpr - Cpl), but the commander would outrank them.

There's also the question of FHQ (Fighting Headquarters), where the OC Major would command one command tank, and the 2ic (Captain) another. Iirc (I wasn't there, man) OC's operator was Squadron Signals Sergeant; 2ic's, Troop Corporal. Remaining crew members would most likely be LCpl - Cpl. But again, if manpower were short...

Looked at from another angle.

Basil Liddel-Hart was an infantry captain in the Great War. He continued to style himself Captain, even though this is reserved for Majors and above. He became a journalist and author, writing histories of the two wars. The former was an okay read. The latter was a work of fantasy.

He lashed out at politicians, the army and the cavalry in particular. He alleged that the cavalry to a man refused to give up their horses. 

I have a book, Everything Worked Like Clockwork: The Mechanization of the British Cavalry, 1918-1942, Roger Salmon.

The author disproves much of Liddel-Hart's rants, using sources that include Hansard and interviews with cavalrymen of the period. "The cavalry to a man" turned out in Hansard to be listed as the Colonels (as opposed to Commanding Officers) of two very senior regiments.

The book describes how any cavalryman who wanted to stay horsed could transfer out of a regiment being converted to one that wasn't. The numbers recorded were in the dozens.

The reason it took until 1942 to convert the last regular horsed cavalry regiment to tanks was simply because there were no tanks. The world was in depression, the League of Nations (stand fast Germany, Italy and Japan) demanded peace and there was no money.

But here's the rub. Cavalrymen actually wanted mechanisation, to be able to take their skills home to work newfangled tractors and farm machinery.

So to the OP, I'd say it's quite possible.

I went to Tankfest a decade ago and saw a line of privately owned tanks. All looked good, but "shiny" and clean.

At the end was a cracker. Old, scruffy, lived in. But what was it? Into (decades old) recognition mode. Road wheels: T54/55. Gun T62. Nope.

Guy wanders over. "Like it? What do you think it is?"

"I can only assume it's a Type 59."

 "You're the only person all day to guess right."

 "But the gun?"

"It's an L7."

 I hadn't seen that coming. Great, lived in piece of kit. I never got to the bottom of who fitted the ubiquitous L7 to a Type 59

On 7/5/2014 at 10:44 AM, robin craig said:

4th to 3rd is the one when people forget what gear they are in and show it by standing the vehicle on it's nose.

In 1981, 15/19H (3 Div) were Orange on the 1 Div FTX. Last weekend of Ex, we were in an OP line awaiting the inevitable Blue counterattack at early o'clock Monday morning as per, on electronic silence (radio silence on steroids). We expected it to go noisy about 0400.

Around 0200, having been watching a badger shuffling in the treeline at my 2 o'clock, I became vaguely aware of CVR(T) noises at my 11 o'clock. I couldn't see anything because the T junction in that direction was behind a hillock.

Then the CVR(T) changed from 4th to 3rd at speed and slowed VERY quickly and audibly. Obviously a battlegroup's close recce Scimitar.

Switch UK/VRC353 from standby. Press pressel to tune the antenna. Short Contact Report. "Hello 2 this is 22A contact wait out."

Give FHQ the chance to find his code board and switch 353 from standby, and myself the chance to compile a full Contact Report.

 "Hello 2 this is 22A."

 (Self authenticate Break Electronic Silence from the code board) "I authenticate Alpha Delta Seven One" — something like that. It's over 40 years.

 (Initiate Contact Report) "Contact."

 (When) "0203 hours".

(What it is) "One BMP platoon (according to the Pink, one enemy CVR(T) represents a BMP platoon)

(Where it is) "Grid 243678" (enemy locations in clear if action to be taken within 30min. Give them a coded location helps them decode the day's Mapco)

(What it is doing) "Approaching junction from northwest"

(What you are doing about it) "Am observing."

 "Over"

 "2 Roger out"

And I got to start an exercise phase two hours early. Cheers 22A.

From memory, Sight, Periscopic, AV, Number 43.

But it's 45 years

On 7/5/2017 at 8:25 AM, goanna said:

I've seen those geometric shapes on the doors of softskin vehicles . Were these vehicles in service with similar armour squadrons ? Many years ago I was given some Morris PU 8 cwt bits , including a door skin with a faded yellow triangle on it.

Short answer, Yes. CO and 2ic had rovers (Land Rover), as did squadron leaders. SQMS A and B echelons had Land Rovers. Etc.

In 1976, in BAOR the brigade concept was dropped in favour of task forces (Alpha and Bravo in 1 Armd Div, Charlie and Delta 2 Div, Echo and Foxtrot 3 Div (from 78) and Golf and Hotel, 4 Div. The objectives were to be more flexible and improve the ratio of teeth arm headcount against logistic tail.

By definition, a task force was a composite all arms unit based on a TF HQ.

A battlegroup was ditto on a major unit (RAC or infantry) HQ.

A combat team was ditto on a squadron/ company HQ.

The idea was that armour was added to infantry formations as required and vice versa with artillery as required for the upcoming operation. Very flexible, and any of the three formations might be bigger or smaller than you might expect because of atts and dets.

15/19H were the divisional recce regiment, and wouldn't have been assigned to a junior or senior brigade anyway. A Squadron close recce Scimitar troops were permanently detached to battlegroups. B and C medium recce Scorpions provided the recce screen across the divisional frontage, but not assigned to Task Forces. We may or may not have artillery attached. We reported directly to HQ 3 Armd Div.

But there was no longer a senior and a junior brigade. From 1977, our squadron tac signs were a single spray of matt white over a template, not particularly bright because camouflage. I can't remember when/ whether by 82 we'd started painting our tac signs green on black and black on green. We had painted our bridge classification in battleship grey (from yellow).

The Task Force experiment ended after Spearpoint 80 and TF HQs reverted to brigade HQs.

TF Echo HQ and Signal Troop (colocated with 15/19H) became 33 Armd Bde HQ and Signal Squadron, as they reverted to increased manpower to do their job effectively.

Although Active Edge practised getting out of camp within four hours in the event of a sneak attack, Transition To War was anticipated to Last two to three weeks.

Having taken up General Deployment Plan positions in woods on high ground covering expected invasion routes, there was a long time to maintain radio contact (using ancient Larkspur radios. I did The last Larkspur RAC Control Signaller class 1 upgrade in 1978 ) with FHQ until 3 Shock Army turned up. Lost radio comms was a capital offence in a recce regiment.

Even though the radios ran (as I recall) from the turret batteries and shouldn't compromise starting (off the hull batteries), they needed to be kept charged. And as pointed out, there was the small matter of brews. You had to have the engine on whilst running the BV, running at 1,000rpm.

Not such an issue in Saracen or Sultan, which carried a 500W generator to power the radios.

On 4/7/2019 at 4:59 PM, hauptmanngurque said:

HI guys ...

. I'm looking for data and / or pictures of this scorpion when he was in service ...
if someone coincided with him at some point during his life,
  It seems that he was mainly in BAOR for 10 years, then BATUS and finally transformed to SABRE. to end in withams in 2004

 

You searched for 04FD24

Vehicle Details

ERM

04FD24

Chassis No

****

In Service Date

01/10/1973

Factory Colour

**Protected Data***

Description

COMBAT VEH RECONNAISSANCE FULL TRACKED 30MM GUN FF CLANSMAN SABRE(SCORPOLED)

Cast Date

-

---

Vehicle Service History

RIV Date

Unit

04-Jul-1993

VEHICLE DEPOT LUDGERSHALL

23-Jan-1996

ABRO DONNINGTON PLANNED REPAIR

18-Feb-1997

JSCS ASHCHURCH

30-Apr-1997

HQ CTG BG

11-Sep-2003

JSCS ASHCHURCH

15-Jan-2004

DSG STIRLING

12-May-2004

WITHAM (SPECIALIST VEHICLES) LTD

Date Not Recorded

2 ARMY DEL SQN (VEH STOCK)

---

Vehicle Images

Currently No Images Available.

There's an entry for a conversion in 1981. It's only a gut instinct, but my guess from the date is the radio harness was changed from Larkspur to Clansman.

Somebody with better knowledge will correct me.

On 4/7/2019 at 4:59 PM, hauptmanngurque said:

HI guys ...

. I'm looking for data and / or pictures of this scorpion when he was in service ...
if someone coincided with him at some point during his life,
  It seems that he was mainly in BAOR for 10 years, then BATUS and finally transformed to SABRE. to end in withams in 2004

 

You searched for 04FD24

Vehicle Details

ERM

04FD24

Chassis No

****

In Service Date

01/10/1973

Factory Colour

**Protected Data***

Description

COMBAT VEH RECONNAISSANCE FULL TRACKED 30MM GUN FF CLANSMAN SABRE(SCORPOLED)

Cast Date

-

---

Vehicle Service History

RIV Date

Unit

04-Jul-1993

VEHICLE DEPOT LUDGERSHALL

23-Jan-1996

ABRO DONNINGTON PLANNED REPAIR

18-Feb-1997

JSCS ASHCHURCH

30-Apr-1997

HQ CTG BG

11-Sep-2003

JSCS ASHCHURCH

15-Jan-2004

DSG STIRLING

12-May-2004

WITHAM (SPECIALIST VEHICLES) LTD

Date Not Recorded

2 ARMY DEL SQN (VEH STOCK)

---

Vehicle Images

Currently No Images Available.

In December 1977, 15th/19th The King's Royal Hussars had just deployed to Paderborn with 3 Armd Div (activated 1 January 1978 ) as divisional recce regiment. 

Barry and I were in B Squadron together, but I was immediately posted to Command Troop. Barry was posted to Command Troop a couple of years later.

There was a lot of vehicle churn between October and December 78. We took over Alanbrooke Barracks from an infantry battalion and needed a full set of vehicles. Not all were correct. Command Troop collected Saracens and Ferrets from Moenchengladbach, but were given ACPRA instead of ACV. Did one exercise, then took them back to exchange them for ACVs.

But to have a Scorpion for just five days takes some beating.

On 3/1/2021 at 1:52 PM, Messier4715 said:

i did my training in bovington 2000. I think the tiger was there at the time or in restoration but on subsequent training courses I went to the tank museum and she is impressive in scale and presence even with modern tanks if anyone is thinking about it after this lockdown nonsense is over highly recommend it. 

131 was being restored in the old museum. (Director Royal Armoured Corps had been a young 15/19H lieutenant when I was in Command Troop. He asked everyone who's ever been RAC, via associations, to dig deep. For that reason about 2008 I was invited to Bovy Officers' Mess for the opening, and my name was on the plaque by the ticket office, since removed to the ramp between Cold War hall and restaurant, under Light Dragoons.)

Nearby was the Kelly's Heroes "Tiger", built on a T34 chassis. Puny in comparison.

Summer of 76. 15th/19th The King's Royal Hussars had just completed an 18 month tour in Omagh, Co Tyrone and, having left Fallingbostel and Chieftain for Omagh, were now converting to CVR(T). I had done Scorpion Gunnery and Larkspur Radio Operator before catching the last few months of the tour. The Chieftain Driver Mechs left Omagh early to convert. Apart from two gunnery camps at Lulworth and everyone doing the necessary outstanding courses (which got me a Group H licence, thank you), then everyone doing a Ferret course at the end of the summer because UNFICYP demanded that everyone, regardless of licence, be signed off on a FSC driver course, the summer was spent on Salisbury Plain exercising our new toys.

Jock, my driver, was a Driver Mech. I was troop sergeant's gunner/operator. Jock quickly got fed up of driving back and forth across the Plain. Early one morning, "You have'nae seen me do this, right?" as he loosened the J60 cooling fan mounting bolts. He started up the Scorpion. It ran awfully. "Ah dinnae ken," he informed the commander. The other two cars (car, a term to differentiate a recce vehicle from a MBT — think armoured car; we ran three-car troops because we'd needed six sabre troops in Omagh, and would again in Nicosia, so we ran five times three-car Scorpion troops and a Ferret GW troop) had to play without us. Jock cooked breakfast. I called up callsign 28 (the LAD) outlined the symptoms and requested Bluebell (REME) assistance, then put on a brew.

VM eventually did a good job, and we set up to catch up with the troop. Jock considered it a good day's work.

So he did it again the next day. This time, Tiffy himself did the fix and commented how bad it could have got had the fan broken loose under load, chopped through the firewall and then the driver's legs, then probably through the gap between driver's seat and commander's legs... You see where this is going? Tiffy would have a word with his VM. Jock wouldn't pull the stunt again.

But we weren't done yet. Having thrown a track on a downhill track as we set off, luckily before Tiffy had left, it was dark when eventually we caught up with the squadron. And the SSM decided than since Jock and I had done the square root of naff all for two days, we were to carry out a foot recce behind A Squadron lines, locate their FHQ and report back by A41 manpack so that a fire mission could be brought down. In- and exfiltration were carried out on the back of the SSM's Ferret, 29C.

So Jock got his two days off, but it didn't really see us rested.

Phil

 

You can always go around with a paint brush afterwards and touch up any visible bare metal. A bit of use and some dust and nobody will ever notice.

 

Tank wheels are notorious for coming loose, no doubt due to side loads from turning at speed. Given that almost nobody seems to drive a CVRT sedately.........

I don't know about CVRT but IIRC M113 wheel nuts are all nyloc to make extra sure they stay done up. So the last thing you want under your wheel nuts is something that can wiggle out and leave the wheels loose.

 

Again I can't speak for CVRT, but do check the specification of the sprocket carrier to drive flange bolts. On M113 these are something special and a use once item. Doubtless there is a history there and a reason they did that.

 

Regards

Doug

Reminded of something I read many years ago. The Churchill servicing schedule said to put ¼ turn on the wheel nuts to make sure they were tight. Over the Channel, into combat, first time they were put under extreme load, a lot of Churchill roadwheels fell off.

On Scorpion, we were issued with a torque wrench.

Rather less than I was an hour ago! IMDb suggests I'm wrong. Consider my previous post retracted and my addled brain fed with humble pie.

Wot no mention of the dedication at the end (I think) of the film to the crew killed when their Mosquito piled in? I suspect caught on camera and used from multiple angles at various points in the film.

Have to agree with the comment regarding aerials, we always refer to those people as belonging to the aerial display team, but again, each to his own. I would comment though, having had the experience, that moving into location and camming up was loads easier without aerials, so off came the whips before we moved off - no coms, no bombs!

On the theme of the thread though, I can vividly remember tanks and sometimes Ferrets flying pennants, and I don't know, but I always assumed they were for identifying squadrons - a pennant being a small triangular shape flag about 9 inches long of course, as opposed to the 5 foot by 3 foot union jack that everybody had in the war - I know it's true, I've seen the film!

Vehicles' squadrons (companies, batteries, etc) can be identified by symbols painted on.

🔺 A Squadron

◼ B Squadron

⚪ C Squadron

🔸HQ Squadron

We didn't have a D Squadron in my day. Shrug.

Note the size, colour of symbols is not represented here. This Android tablet gives me a limited selection of shaped characters and I bothered to use them. They were all of similar size, hollow and painted the same colour (in my time. In earlier times, symbols in red or yellow might indicate senior/junior unit in a brigade.) If I remember correctly they were in gloss white, though when bridge plates changed from yellow to grey sometime around 1980, I think squadron signs (and vehicle callsigns) may have also changed to grey.

I have noticed that some pictures can show pennants on the aerial's of vehicles, is there a document to allow this or is it a unit specific desire?

When I was in, a long time ago, we carried four flags, blue, yellow, red, green.

From memory, green was flown by the lead vehicle in a packet of 5-8 vehicles*.

Blue was flown by the rear vehicle of a packet. (Note blue and green may have been the other way round. It WAS a long time ago.)

On the ranges:

A vehicle with guns clear flew green.

A vehicle at Action flew red.

A vehicle being handled for a misfire (of the main armament) flew yellow.

Vague recollection that a vehicle being handled for a stoppage (of the co-ax) may have flown red and yellow.

Obviously, being professional, we didn't have much need for the yellow flag. 😉

Any other sort of flag would have been for ceremonial purposes only and there were no rules, only the imagination of the grownups.

_____

* Move a division in one lump, nothing else would move. Convoys were broken in 5-8 vehicle packets.

Would be nice to see photo of Scorpion mentioned above. I wonder if the engine was any good when Spike removed it?

Nipper has bought tickets for Tankfest at Bovvy in a couple of weeks for Father's Day, like every year. He's not stupid, he gets his personal chauffeur and tour guide. All he has to do is buy tickets and burgers.

I'll have the big beast camera. See if I can get a half decent pic.

Yes Simon, you are correct.

Elements of 9th AD who used Covenanters were transferred to 79th AD when 9th AD was disbanded (27th Armoured Brigade for example) and so presumably they still had some of their Covenanters on hand to use for training. Speculation unless somebody can come up with more definite proof.

Pretty sure 15/19H were 9 Armd Div before joining 11. They certainly did Normandy to the Baltic in 27 Armd Bde and they certainly spent the mid-war years on Covenanter. Busy at the moment. Will check the Official History 1939-1945 later and get back to you.

If you don't hear from me (I don't get on here as often as I did) PM me and I ought to get an email.

"Have you got any more information on date, theatre, etc that this vehicle was with 15/19H?" asked an ex-15/19H who crewed a Saracen ACV in 1979 between crewing CVR(T) and Ferret.

If it also lists 17/21L, my guess is this vehicle may have been based in Omagh. 17/21L were in Omagh early in the troubles, followed by 16/5L, 1RTR then us. It was only toward the end of the tour (I joined from training very late, in 76) that I discovered we actually had Saracen APCs. Our troop never took ours out.

Apart from once guarding and recovering a breakdown, I only once travelled in company with Saracen. Both events at night. The latter, end of tour, all the drivers had left early with the advance party for CVR(T) conversion and I got an hour's training before taking out a Ferret, driven on my Group A civvy licence.

Driving past an RUC station somewhere like Fivemiletown, Sixmilecross, Augher, Clogher (when your instructions are "keep up with the Saracen" you don't really care where you are). Object lesson. When a six-wheeled Saracen glides over speed bumps and through a chicane round an RUC station, don't try and do the same in a much smaller Ferret. Least it taught me how to take speed bumps at speed.

The sights are fairly expensive (350GBP is what I've seen) and somewhat scarce, the commander's sight is worse.

 

You don't specify which bins you are looking for or if you are after the old, middle series, or new bins.

Granted the Scorpions didn't usually get the new series bins but depending on your hull and desires I've seen it done.

I'm considering a set of new type front bins myself since I happen to have the new headlights and all and I've not seen wading screens available. :-)

 

The Xmod, Marcus Glenn , and such often have at least some bins for sale.

 

I guess the bottom line is expect replacing the missing bits to set you back more than you might have thought, it's a good part of the reason a project vehicle is much cheaper than a complete one.

 

Good luck in your quest.

Wrt bins. Once the grown-ups worked out that German rivers were not suitable for wading by CVR(T) because the banks were all wrong, and besides, the screens didn't get maintained, so if you did swim, chances are it'd sink, we removed them. This left a surprising amount of space for extra bins, storage always having been at a premium.

So we fitted as many Chieftain bins on the float screen mounts as we could. Before the midlife upgrade, including bigger headlights above the screen mount, this included along the front, above the headlights. Those were great and in the early 80s for carrying plenty of yellow handbags.

The midlife upgrade addressed some of these issues, but I was long gone.

1. The original RAF uniforms in Prussian Blue had been an export order for some of the Tsar's troops (if memory serves, the palace guard). After his overthrow, they were surplus and issued to the nascent RAF. As intimated elsewhere, the Prussian Blue closely resembled the ointment then being used for the treatment of crabs. I well remember, as alluded, Sail Army, Fly Navy, Walk Sideways, as I regularly sailed Army, and have a trophy collection to prove it.
   
2. Your book might be better received this side of the pond if, instead of Desert Storm, you don't use the American designation and refer instead to OP Granby. Many a supposedly British Army photo has been outed as fake for using the term Desert Storm. I have a friend, ex Scots Guards, whose book ACAB, necessitated his registering with the US IRS before Amazon would release it on Kindle. Every year, he told me just last night, the IRS send him an invoice for tax on US Kindle sales, a big fat Zero.
   

Interestingly (or maybe not ) when I picked up my ferret earlier this year it had not been started or moved in several years, it had quarter tank of petrol. I added five litres of new petrol and it started and ran fine after a bit of smoking...which amazed me.

Apropos of nothing, I drove 02 CC 76 in 1978, mark 1, Larkspur rebro. Until I passed my Control Signaller at Bovington and was moved to the back of a Saracen ACV. I think we might also have had 02 CC 74. Or maybe I had 74? Whatever.

Alien

 

the Chieftain equivalent was Bargepole?

 

Looks like this vehicle has been around a bit - I have some translated vehicle histories at home which will help so will have a look when I get in...

 

Timbo

You read it here, posted by me. That was wrong. It was Totem Pole. Chieftain, totem pole, geddit?

Ok Folks,

Where can I get a couple of the full color Gibraltar sleeve patches, the red one with the golden key? Also would personnel assigned to HQ Gibraltar wear a stable belt, if so what color and where would I get one. Keep in mind that I live in the Republic of Texas.

Thanks for the help.

Regards,

John

Wrt the sleeve patch, I have absolutely no idea. In my day, we deedn need no steenkeen badges, as they served to provide information to our enemies (the Commies).

Wrt to a stable belt, it is tied to the cap badge you wear. Nothing else.