John Bradshaw

Adrian, another from the group.

Adrian, I think you should. It's quite an useful group, IMO, and there have been a couple of frames recently that may be new to you. Eg a chap who found complete bike last weekend for £250. Green, BTW. You mentioned images from late August 1952, IWM. I can't find them in IWM search. Have you seen the images i found in BSA company records in 1979ish? J

In FB bike group today, Adrian.

BTW, have you ween the bicycle for sale on eBay? J https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/275926361897?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=foRCK5N1QxG&sssrc=2047675&ssuid=-ucIHVFXTAa&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

Adrian, thank you. One problem after another, and I was irritable. I'll try again asap. Cheers. JB

I'll try again. Computer failure halfway through. JB

Thanks, Gary. A useful photograph. JB

Prepenultimate. How did you guess it's one of my favourite words? I'm so impressed by your data and images. Bravo. JB

BTW, Adrian, my bicycle is R22763.

Adrian, thank you again. That's opened my eyes to the colour of very early bicycles. I'll edit my text in the FB group. I've pulled the following sections out of the piece I sent you. It references several ACIs. I wonder if the chronology agrees with your wide range of data. ACI 1559, dated 23rd August 1941, ordered a shade of green, Khaki Green No3, for vehicles. And bicycles? Then ACI 2202, 8th November 1941, 'warning of a change in camouflage style soon to be introduced' including SCC 2, brown.' ACI 1160, 30th May 1942, 'called for SCC2 to be the basic colour.' ACI 1496, 13th October 1943, 'reaffirming that A and B vehicles were to continue to use SCC2 as the basic colour.' ACI1533, 12th April 1944, 'a new colour, SCC15 Olive Drab, was to be adopted as the new basic camouflage colour for all army equipments.' JB

Thanks, Adrian. Love the Co-Op story. I'll send photos of the crank/chain wheel when I re!ember where i put it. I'll need it soon - collect the paint yesterday. S.C.C.2, aka Service Brown, BS381C 499. On paint, I just posted the following on the FB page. 'Original paint colours. Forgive me if you've seen this information before. We all know that early bicycles, probably the first 22,000 or so, were painted brown, and later ones green. This is an evidenced account of what shades of brown and green were used, when the change took place, and why. It's a long document, though interesting, and well-researched. It references Mike Starmer, an author of great authority on 1930s and 1940s vehicle colours, and quotes a number of ACIs (Army Council Instructions). I'm persuaded that it explains convincingly the changes of colour we find on our bicycles, and helps to date some of them. I hope my post will prompt debate and discussion on this interesting topic.' https://www.wdnorton.nl/Colours.html John

Adrian, I must disappoint you, I'm afraid. There are BSA emblems on two components, but I can't discern letters on any of them. There's too much corrosion to tell if there had been letters, or if there never were any. Sorry. On the non-crank side, you'll find the emblem at 3 o'clock on the locking ring and 9 o'clock on the cone. For the next couple of days the components, apart from frame, forks, crank/chainwheel and bars, are bare metal. I imagine this is rare, so if we can learn anything, let me know. I'll spray with primer shortly. To digress slightly, do you have any views on the change of colour from brown to olive drab? I recently came across a document that shines a light on the change and its date. Let me know if this interests you. I'll ask some chums who live in Stockton if they know of the jeep and bicycle. Best wishes JB

Adrian, your other questions 1. I attach images of the forks and bottom bracket. I hope they address the details that interest you. I couldn't open the two links at the end of your post, so I don't know if my images are of use. Let me know if not.

Adrian, thank you. I wonder if jeep and bicycle remain in Stockton. I've a few friends living there. I'll answer most of your questions now. 1. No trace of black undercoat. 2. Crank bosses your second type - see image. And tapped. Bike had proper pedals when I found it. 3. Bottom bracket welded. Don't know about the oiler - I'll check tomorrow. Frame is in the garage/workshop, and it's raining heavily atm. 4. Tommy bar second type, through the hexagon, as you suggested. Unfortunately the hex disintegrated not long after I found the bike, so I'm having a replica bolt made by a chum. The old one was very poor material. Melted down church railings, or something similar, I suppose. I'll check tomorrow and respond to your other questions. Cheers. John

Adrian, thanks for your prompt response. I live at Southam now, since 2002, and before that in south Warwickshire. And thanks for the excerpt from your list. I'm pleased, of course, that mine is a rare variant. To the best of my knowledge the forks are original, and I'm certain the cranks are, so yes, fire away. I found the bicycle in Warwickshire in autumn 1972. I now know the identity of the previous owner, a Fr Sheldon, a priest teaching at a junior seminary near Warwick. It had been painted two shades of blue, and I couldn't recover enough of the original finish to be able to retain it. I did, though, find that it had originally been Service brown, and I've recently found more small traces of paint. I'm entirely confident it was originally in that colour. When I found the bike it was complete and original apart from the paintwork, saddle and stem, grips, rear hub (3 speed Sturmey Archer fitted) and pedals. Fortunately the pedal rod plungers were intact and free. I can't remember details of the tyres. I'm afraid I stripped thethough years ago, to 'restore' it. But I'm notoriously slow to do anything, and it's remained dismantled for 30+ years. Rome wasn't built in a day, you know. Despite a number of house moves I've lost only two screws and nuts (brake shoe retaining). Meanwhile I've gained an original Model 40 saddle and a set of NOS brake blocks. I'm now rebuilding it, with replica pedal rods. It will, of course, be Service brown. Incidentally, I had a Junior bike when a child. I have a vague memory of walking with my parents to collect it from a BSA factory, though I can't vouch for it. I await your questions. With good wishes - John Bradshaw

You may have a note of my bicycle's frame number. If not, here you are - it's 22763, cast hinge brackets, BSA on wingnuts, originally painted brown, oversized numeral 2 in frame number.