cordenj

Hi all

 

On the discussion of water bowser's and electrical repair trailers, I thought I would post some pictures of my finds.

Unfortunately the farmer's had his moneys worth out of these two. It just goes to show parts can be found if you’re looking.

I have a few projects to get to before these.

Can anyone help with parts on the light weight water bowser? have the remains of one and need any parts, drawings, Pictures I can get to help with the restoration.

 

Many thanks

 

Richard

Hi Richard,

Welcome to HMVF.

I agree with you that there are still a number of Lightweight trailers out there, but also as you say the farmer has had his money's worth!

Have you seen the photos of my Lightweight Water Bowser on this other thread:

http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?20437-British-WWII-water-tank-trailers

The chassis in your photo is unusual.

It isn't a 10cwt Lighweight "No1 MkII trailer (the standard WWII "Airborne" trailer), as the springs have the recurved leaf ends.

Because it has welded horizontal sections fore and aft of the wheel, it looks to me that it could be from the either WWII Lightweight Machinery, Electrical Repair or Binned versions of the 10cwt trailers, but with the upper body cut/rusted off.

If you look at photos of the stripped Electrical repair chassis, hopefully you can see what I mean.

But defintely worth saving and restoring.

David mentions the Part List and that is a really good resource of info on these trailers.

Cheers,

John

Hi John

As I'm new to the forum I hadn't picked up this thread till now. Richard spoke to me about your trailer at Combined Ops when he first located it, we discussed battery boxes etc being somewhat sad and T plates. I see you still have the T plate attached so you where lucky!! I recently purchased 10 T plates from a dealer I found at the Great Dorset Steam Fair, as you can imagine they have all been snapped up to finish restorations. The good news is I have one 6volt oak battery box of what I belive is the correct patten for your trailer, You have my home Phone No so give me a call os I'll see you at Godstone IMPS meeting in Febuary.

Regards

Robin Grainger

Hi Robin,

Welcome to HMVF. Would defintely like the battery box and have sent you a PM.

Am sure many on here would also like to see photos of your Binned Lightweight Trailer when you have a chance.

Cheers,

John

...and another. Welcome.

John

Lightweight Trailer Spring Types:

Lightweight No1 MkII "airborne" trailers where a higher weight was likely to be carried (water bowser or machinery trailers) appear to have been fitted with stronger springs where the lower leaf have recurved ends. The slightly later No2 lighweight trailers where also fitted with this trype of spring.

a) Standard No.1 MkII:

b) No1 MkII Lightweight Water Bowser:

c) No1 MkII Lightweight 2 Wheeled Electrical Repair Trailer:

d) No2 MkI:

Cheers,

John

hello john

 

i want to make a complete new chassis with original axel, rims and springs.

 

and i need the sizes of the lengt of the towing bar

 

the size of the overal lengt of the trailer

and the height en the width of the trailer

 

cheers hans

Hi Hans,

• Length of the towing bar/drawbar forward of main body = 680mm.

• Width of trailer = 1362mm

• Length of main body = 1830mm

• Height of body (not the distance from the ground, but the depth of the main body frame) = 436mm

Hope these help.

Where are you based? The Netherlands?

Which type of trailer did the axle and springs originate from? These REME trailers and the Water Bowser had stronger springs than the usual 10cwt Lightweight trailers.

You can see the type of springs in one of my earlier posted photos. If you need photo of other type let me know.

Cheers,

John

Hi Hans,

Welcome to HMVF.

Yes, will help if I can.

Which measurements do you need?

Are you using a No1 MkII chassis as a base?

John

Have been busy stripping the trailer ready for shot blasting. A few photos to show means of construction:

Last scan is from a contempory WO manual.

John

As I have posted under the "Museum" section today, "LandyAndy" kindly invited "Markheliops" and I to visit the REME collection at Bordon this morning.

I was keen was to see their Electrical Repair Trailer, and to measure/photograph the collapsible workbenches that are missing from my one. Simple construction from t&g timber and 1 1/4" x 1 1/4" heavy angle, held together with butterfly nuts. The only parts missing are the flat steel stays that can be seen in contempory photos in an earlier post of these benches in use. But now I have the dimensions of the benchtops and legs, easy to calculate the size of these parts.

The Bordon trailer was renovated in Sept 1998 by 72 Engr Regt Wksp REME (V).

It still has the original Black & Decker type 20 Drill press, a Wolf 110v DC grinder and large worklight, but no Valve Grinder.

Both trailers are from the same contract No. 23/7940

My trailer is numbered X6170936 , thirty-three later than the Bordon example, and appears identical in design and construction. Although an ATLAS brand 110v DC grinder has been fitted rather than a WOLF, presumeably they fitted either type from what was available in 1943/4.

While my chassis is numbered 4136, only six later than that at Bordon.

Wonder how many of the Electrical Repair type were built?

Thanks again to "Landyandy", now just need to add "make two workbenches", to the list.

Cheers,

John

"Markheliops" and I were fortunate to be invited to visit the REME Museum collection at Bordon today by "LandAndy".

Mark wanted to see the Chieftain ARRV and I wanted to have a look at their WWII REME Lightweight Electrical Repair Trailer.

We hadn't been before and were not sure what to expect.....but certainly weren't expecting such a brilliant collection that ranges from a 1930 Morris Commercial DF to 2 x Prototype Challengers. We understand the future of the site is under review, and it would be sad if this collection is dispersed after 2015.

A few photos posted below and link to youtube video of the M74 and Conqueror running today (amazing how this 60 ton vehicle can delicately turn within its own length).

Mark and I would like to thank Andy (also "IoW Andy" and John) again for a great day and welcome hot brews.

[Am certain Mark will add his comments here when he gets his internet up and running....he moved house on Thursday!]

Part of the interest for me, and I hope others, is researching what would have been supplied as part of the original kit with this type of trailer.

I have a list of "Major Equipment" that was originally included with the trailer, and it lists "machine, drilling, portable electric, with stand"...... a portable electric drill press.

In a contemporary (late 1940's) photo, the drill press base can just be seen fitted in the left front of lower photo beyond the light fitting:

Also the 1966 drawing posted earlier in this thread shows how the drill stand was stowed in transit, and the base permanantly fitted at back of trailer.

On my trailer there were three holes and impressions in the wood to show where the base had been fitted.

But which make and type?

At the back of one of the storage drawers was an old War Office booklet "Complete Equipment Schedule: service edition" dated 1959, and has an final entry for July 1964 relating to "Drill Electric, portable 3/8 in 110v DC, Black and Decker" and "Bench drill No.20".

Time to Google "1940's Black Decker" and found adverts from 1944 and 1948:

Then a web search for "Black and Decker Type 20" found this on a Vintage Machinery site website in USA.

So I knew what it looked like, and that some where still out there:

It looked very similar to the stand in the 1966 drawing and the 1940's adverts.

Next challenge was to find one for sale. Again the web came up this one in the US for only $14 in a US version of the FridayAd:

But the cost of shipping was far more than the value of the item....

So set up an Ebay search and expected to wait for a long time before one appeared in Uk.

In a real stroke of luck, one came up for auction only a week later, and even better was located in New Forest. Perhaps there are dozens of these stands for sale....but I doubt it somehow:

Well I won the auction and this is how it looks on the trailer. The cast base has three feet that exactly match the old floor intentations:

Another piece in the jigsaw complete.

Now...does anyone have a 1940s Black and Decker Drill that they dont really need any more?

Something like this below (a 1945 B&D ad) or one of the drills in the other ads on this post?:

Thanks to Jack (and the web) for providing the opportunity to find obscure pieces of scrap metal and bring them together!

John

Thanks Clive,

That is very interesting and it does look in good condition.

I'd seen from the REME museum website that thay had a Lighweight Machinery trailer, and LandAndy told me about this one.

I am hoping to visit Bordon soon to see it "in the metal".

I'm particular interested in the dimensions and means of construction of the folding benches.

I have found a photo of these in use, useful but nothing beats seeing the real thing.

I will post some more photos of the Bordon one after the visit, as hope this thread wil be useful to others restiring this type of trailer.

Thanks

John

Thanks Richard,

I am sure you are right and there must have been the very real need to keep these valves operational.

Interesting that it was the leaded petrol that caused the problem.....seems ironic now that I add lead replacement to the current "unleaded" petrol in My Jeep.

John

Last weekend I started to pull the trailer apart.

The Van Norman Valve Grinder is incredibly heavy, and had to use my engine hoist to move it. I wonder why it was ever considered a good idea to fit one to a "Lightweight" trailer designed to be delivered by glider.....burnt/damamged valves must have been a major problem!

Unlike the standard Lightweight trailers, the Electrical Repair and Machiniery models were built with steel storage boxes around an open chassis. A plywood storage box then was fitted into the gap. It just sat onto the chassis with no fixings, so very easily lifts out.

All sorts of odds and ends had fallen into the gaps between the trailer and storage box over the years, including a 1950 One Pfenning coin....

The trailer appears very original and the dataplate looks liie it has never been moved

Any other info on these trailers is very welcome.

Thanks

John

Hi Andy,

That would be very useful. Especially the collapsible workbenches.

I'm currently just working off the 1966 drawing and a couple of photos from the 1951 book about the REME in WWII.

Cheers,

John

i,ll get some pics of it next time i,m there

Hi Danny,

No sorry I don't, they are fairly rare.

There is another restored one in UK and I'm aware one is being restored in the Netherlands.

There is also another chassis in UK, but missing the galvanised tank.

I'd bet there are others on farms still in use taking water to livestock ... just a matter of finding them.

jnc

Hiya JohnThere is one at Bordon of this spec complete if that helps? Don 't suppose you know where there is a water bowser like yours for restoration?CheersDan

Hi Chris: You can see why I was enquiring about 6v batteries now. I hope to restore it to original 1940's spec, so I think you said I would need two 6V 85 AH Mk.3 batteries with the Niphan sockets.

Failing that, I will have to make two light oak wooden cases to the correct size and construction to fill the gaps. Any leads as to where I might find them would be very welcome.

David: Yes an interesting project, as with all these things part of the challenge is uncovering the history behind why they were built, to what spec and where were they used.

It has very old tyres (Goodrich 6.00x16 embossed "Miitary"), but whether they are original I can't say. Although they have surface cracks, I towed it home behind the Jeep for 65 miles on these tyres from Romney Marsh...but had two spare airborne wheels with me just in case!

I am looking for a few accessories for the trailer, the most important one being the folding workbenches that sat in the front open compartment. I will make those, but can't progress further until I have some photos or dimensions.

I'm also on the look-out for a period electric drill, seems the Black and Decker were specified. Some for sale in US at present, but am sure one will turn up in UK.

Cheers

John

Having restored 1944 Airborne 10cwt No1 Mk2 Trailer and an 1944 10cwt Lightweight Water Bowser (posted photos previously on HMVF), I've now got a new project.

Have been lucky to find a 1944 Lightweight Electrical Repair trailer (thanks Richard).

I believe it is one of the trailers developed by the REME section of the Airborne Forces Development Centre based at Amesbury Abbey (Wilts) from 1943 in cooperation with the REME Central Workshops at Old Dalby (ref. Rob van Meel's British Airborne Jeeps).

The trailer data plate shows it to be "Electrical Repair Trailer. No.1 Mk II. Cont. No. 23/7940" and WD Number: X6170936.

It still has its 110v DC Bench Grinder and a 110v DC "Van Norman YW Valve Refacer", a large worklight and an Admiralty Pattern 1 Gallon Still (for distilling water for batteries!).

It came its original canvas cover with "T-plate", but is missing the simple steel frame (on the to do list).

I am guessing the old design of triangle warning plate is a post-war.

It is missing the collapsible workbenches that slotted into the front...does anyone have any information on these?

Size and method of construction?

The two wooden cased 6v battery boxes are also missing.

But I think it is an unusual survivor in very good conditon, I'll post a few photos below, but I am very interested to find any further informaton about these trailers, their equipment and use.

It seems that this particular example only left the army in late 1970s/early 80's, possibly having been with a TA unit.

I don't think the REME museum has one, althought they do have the very similar Lightweight Machinery Trailer.

How many others survive?

Thanks in anticipation

John

I thought some might be interested in this local WWI memorial, and how it has been refurbished and rededicated today.

The memorial at St.Mark's Church, Alma Road, Reigate was constructed of a local stone, it commemorates 99 local people who were killed between 18th Sept 1914 and 7th Nov 1919.

Over the years the local stone was eroded by weather to such an extent that the names were slowly disappearing and would soon be lost from the memorial....

I suspect the story so far can be repeated across the country.

But the parishioners of St. Mark's were not prepared to let the memory fade.

Over a period of four years, fund raising and donations from local businesses and individuals secured sufficient funds to refurbish the memorial and re-etch all the names.

Over the summer this work was completed by a very skilled stone mason, and today the memorial was rededicated in brilliant autumn sunshine.

At a time when we read about memorials falling into disrepair and the despicable theft of bronze plaques, I felt this story and photos might encourage and inspire others.

Evening David,

I think these are what you are looking for....hope the photos help with the search.

I have found and used silver/nickel metal coloured plugs and sockets, but I think the brass ones are of WWII vintage (see date on box).

John

...and more "slit trenches" near the railway tunnel. These seem to have have been excavated more over recent years, this photo was taken in August 2011.

John

Evening Joris,

....and this is his final resting place at Oosterbeek CWGC (photo taken in 2006).

Best wishes,

John

Thought I'd give this thread a nudge again....

I think Big Ray hits the spot with:

"... but there's not much you can do about other people's behaviour - there is something you can do about bettering your chances of being spotted though, which is the key point here, especially when potentially high speed differentials are involved."

I've recently been involved in assisting with some formal tests of 6 volt Jeep light visibility at twilight. It confirmed my belief that these lights ARE perfectly visible; indeed in the tests they were found to be at least as effective as a modern vehicle used for comparison.

So for me, the speed differential is the real issue, the key is to make the MV standout as being "something different" to the average road user and get them to give us a second look...and then realise we are travelling at 30-40mph slower than they are.

Over the summer I've been looking out for how others looked at mkaking themselves stand-out, a few examples:

As I have said before inthis thread, I'm not endorsing any particular solution, as each MV owner will need to decide how they comply with all the requirements of the road traffic legislation....and yes, a couple of the examples I've posted would need to consider whether their registration plate was obscured.... but any other examples out there?

John

Interesting post Gary......and the YouTube clip shows what we are dealing with (whether in MVs or in modern cars).

I'd seen the MVPA triangle in their magazine.

For anyone who is interested in ordering one, it can be found at this link:

https://netforum.avectra.com/eweb/shopping/shopping.aspx?pager=4&site=mvpa&prd_key=d0937b28-7830-488c-b7a2-029e97977397

I must say I'd thought it might be too small, but it looks good on the back of your Jeep.

Thanks

John

Thanks for the input guys,

Thought I'd share another practical idea that a fellow IMPS member uses whenever he is going to travel on a motorway with his Jeep:

He fixes a marker board on the spare wheel.

These marker boards are designed to be used on motorhomes when bicylcels are hung on the back. I believe they are a legal requirement in some EU countries, including Italy, but are readily available in UK.

Again I'm not making a specific recommendation, just circulating another option; but If anyone does fit these, it is important to have the angled lines pointing down to the centre of the road:

As I said in the first post, I've been using additional lights/reflective tape for some time as the risk of rear impact on any high speed road is significant.

I've tried LED cycle lights, and I know of several IMPS members who use them; in one case for the last seven years..................without any issue from the Police that I have heard of.

But despite what some might say, I don't have the perogative on possible options to improve rear visibility .....so please keep them coming!

Thanks,

John

STOP!

Please can I ask that this thread is kept on track.

I've pm'ed a number of posters, some to thank you for your ideas, and some to ask you to keep it on the subject..... but you are all outrunning me....

......I might be expecting too much, but really hope this thread is going to be a source of practical ideas to reduce the risk of rear impact on High Speed Roads.

Most of us have green vehicles, we are not going to repaint them. If it is of real interest base colour might be a subject for a seperate thread.

Thanks

John