Ivor Ramsden

This might be a contender for daftest question ever but does anybody have any information on WW2-era Army biscuit tins? They are often seen in period photos, particularly of armoured vehicles. Many were re-used as cookers so I guess they were blackened with soot but what colour were they when new? Were they labelled?

I realise it's not absolutely certain that any records for our Morris-Commercial C9/B SP Bofors gun will survive, but I've got to try and find something. Who is likely to hold records for a wheeled SP gun?

The RLC Museum? But it's hardly a "B" vehicle because it's got a big gun on the back.

Tank Museum? Er, it's not a tank. Its census number starts with an S for SP gun, so does that point me to the RA Museum?

Any suggestions anybody?

The Ex-Military Land Rover Association might be able to help.

http://emlra.org/

Well blow me down! I've looked at the second photo again and there sure is what could well be a Desert Rat on a white rectangle and 73 below it on a barely visible red/blue AOS square partly hidden on the RHS of both the CMPs.

The mark on the LHS of the nearest truck is the Battery mark of 42 Bty (blue square with red lower left quarter) letter "Y" for Y Troop, and vehicle number 1.

We might be re-writing history here! I must show this photo to Lt Col Mylchreest.

Now where's the phone number for the Lottery people?

Hanno and Les,

Thanks for the link to the MLU thread, I hadn't seen it before. I've got a copy of the book with the photo in it. I've scanned it at hi res and studied it in detail and I simply can't see the markings described in that thread. The Morrises are clearly marked with the Desert Rat and the white 73 on the red/blue RA arm of service square, which indicates without any doubt the Manx Regiment. The CMPs don't have those markings. Here are detailed scans of the three CMP vehicles in the picture. The first one is almost clear enough to read the census number. The leading vehicle in the second photo has on the back what appears to be the metal box which covers the loading mechanism of a Bofors gun. This in itself suggests a link with a Bofors unit, which the Manx Regt was.

The date of 8th June which is quoted in the MLU thread would be correct for the 15th LAA going into Europe. The caption in the book dates it at 20th July but I'm sure this must be wrong because by this time the Regiment was well inland, also in the photo everything has that "just invaded" look, if you understand what I mean.

Have a look and let me know what you think. I'd be very pleased if we could establish that the 15th LAA had Polstens on CMP trucks. Then I'd have to approach the Lottery people again to see if they'd fund the purchase of Dave's superb CMP.

Les, the Regiment was raised in the IOM in 1938. It kept a strong Manx identity throughout but many replacement Gunners were from the UK. The Regt lost a complete Battery (No. 129) in Crete and this was quickly replaced by No.1 Bty, a Regular Army unit of UK Gunners.

Ivor

Can you by any chance read the census number on the C.6653 contract Norton that the officer is seated on ? If it's any help, it would be between C4316278 and C4320277

 

The bike is a late 1940 produced machine and looks to be still wearing it's original Khaki Green finish. Do you know when that particular photo was taken ?

 

...and the inevitable question - Any more motorcycles ? I imagine that a Manx unit would have contained plenty of keen motorcyclists ?

Hi, 79, I hope you don't mind me calling you that for short!

Happy to oblige, the census number is C4318425. The photo date isn't certain but it would not be earlier than January 1941, when the Regiment arrived in N Africa.

We've got disappointingly few motorcycle photos bearing in mind the Island's connection with bikes. Here's what we've got. Maybe you can tell me a bit more about them?

The Norton 16H is RMT540 / C399XXX. Photo taken in Liverpool late 1939.

The Enfield - is it a WD/C? is C3922765, taken in Weymouth in mid-1940

There's another shot of Norton C4318425 with the officers doing silly things, but of course they're doing them in an officer-like way.

I don't know anything about the other desert Norton photo which was taken on 18th November 1941. Can't make out the number - after sending myself cross-eyed staring at the screen and trying to enhance it it looks like it starts C433 but that doesn't fit with your sequence.

Hmm, I wondered when somebody would ask. I've got no documentary or photographic evidence at all of CMP 4x2 15cwt AA vehicles being with the Regiment, but that's not to say there definitely weren't any. However, to quote Lt Col Brian Mylchreest, CO of 41 Battery at D-Day and later CO of the Regiment: "The only 20mm I remember were on tracked vehicles". These were Crusader AA tanks which the Regt were equipped with for a brief time around D-Day.

I've had a close look at the Canadian photo that I understand led the CMP's owner to put 15LAA markings on it. I can't see any of the Polsten 20mm-armed vehicles actually carrying such markings although there are some clearly-marked 15LAA Morris wireless trucks driving past them.

I'm prepared to be convinced otherwise if anyone's got evidence ...

And I understand the CMP's for sale if anybody's interested.

Hanno, here's a nice 15cwt CMP in the desert. I don't have any good photos of them in Europe - they all tend to be hiding behind people or trees! The Morris 8cwts were delivered to the Regiment here in the Isle of Man early in 1939. One of those is top of my wants list!

Oh dear, I've just had a look in the book. The Dodge is a Ford.

Hi Panelvan and Radek

Here's a couple of Austins for you, Radek. The Tilly is in Eritrea (now Ethiopia) and the one showing off its Caunter type camouflage is in the desert.

I haven't got any photos of Dodges other than the one here which I think is a Canadian Dodge lorry. I'm too lazy to get my book out so maybe someone will tell me if I'm right? The 15th LAA seem to have used Morris Commercial wireless trucks.

Here's a few photos of MT belonging to the 15th LAA Regt RA (TA) in Eritrea, North Africa and Europe. There's plenty more where these came from. What shall I post next? M16 quad .50 half-tracks in Manx Regt markings? More Morris CDSWs? CMPs?

Anybody's welcome to use them, or PM me for larger files, but please acknowledge the source - Museum of the Manx Regiment - if you use them.

One thing that seems to be rare these days is Regimental Museums. Could this be due to the amalgamation of all the regiments?

 

The Cheshire Regiment Museum in Chester is excellent. There's some very well displayed kit and not too much space-wasting interactive stuff for those with no attention span.

 

Many of our visitors tell me that our Manx Aviation & Military Museum is among the best they've been to. It incorporates the Manx Regiment Museum (the 15th Light Anti Aircraft Regiment, R.A.) It's nice to know we're doing it right. And we've got no interactive stuff because it's too costly. No wonder that "real" museums swallow up vast budgets when they're full of electronic wizardry but when you think about it they've actually got very little in the way of proper exhibits.

 

I know that we're a lot better than many professionally-run museums. We do it properly because we believe in it, rather than for money, and without any political hang-ups. Anybody been?

Service life didn't appeal at all in 1971. Too many TV reports of badness in N.I. It appeals even less now that our lads and lasses don't know who their enemy is.

But let's not get political. I have the utmost admiration for anybody who is willing to join up and serve in today's war zones.

I just try to do my bit with the museum; it's my way of saying thank you to the people who protected our freedom, and those who still do.

Here's a couple of photos of an early 2A Lightweight, 37FG60, taken in the summer of 1970 at a Light Infantry recruiting event in Dewsbury. Not the best quality because they were taken with my Instamatic camera.

Doesn't it look nice in Deep Bronze Green with shiny galvanised bits. And Dunlop Trak-Grip tyres - ooh, ooh, steady now!

Where is it now?

Les,

Here's the photo. The QL was with "C" Section, BritCom Dental Unit in Korea.

The photo is in the enthrallingly-titled "A History of the Army Dental Service", which doesn't seem to have made the bestseller list just yet ...

Ivor

One of our regular supporters visited the Manx Aviation & Military Museum today. He's a retired dental surgeon and served in Korea with the British Commonwealth Dental Unit. He showed me a photo of his "surgery", which was a special-bodied Bedford QL, reg. number 22RB60. He wondered where it is now....

I said I'd try and help. Anybody got any ideas? It probably led a more sheltered life than the average GS Lorry so it might have been demobbed late. Is there a Mobile Dental Surgery Collectors Club out there?

Ah what we would refer to as leaf springs ! then the standand is coil springs.

Aye, leaf springs were standard in 1980. They're also known as "cart springs" for obvious reasons

Most of the mechanical bits really are standard Land-Rover or can be replaced by standard bits. This includes bearings, oil seals etc. You've already learned about the 24V situation but stuff is available so leave it as it is. Somebody local to you will have converted one of these to 12V and will have all the 24V bits in his garage. Ask around.

I wouldn't do any irreversible changes - I'm not such an animal. But there aren't many things that you can do to a Land Rover that aren't reversible.

Here's a photo of my lightweight on parabolics. The springs look much skinnier than the standard ones but I'm not too worried about originality on this vehicle. That's why it's got radial tyres on white wheels - they came off a dead 90 and they also help the ride and cut down on noise (the tyres, not the wheels, ha ha).

The RLC museum will have the history card for your lightweight. I got the history for mine but it was very uninspiring. It was originally LHD and served in Germany.

If you want to improve the ride, fit a set of parabolic springs. My son fitted a set to my lightweight without telling me. They transformed the ride. It's now the most comfortable series Land-Rover that I've ever driven. It might upset the rivet-counters but it saves on visits to the physio for fixing your back. There's no way I'd go back to standard springs now.

Try L Jackson & Co at Misson, near Doncaster, for parts. I think they still do ex-MoD Land-Rover stuff.

Thanks for the tips, Jules, I'll have a closer look in the next couple of days. I might even start a C9 blog.

I don't want to hijack this thread but just wanted to tell everyone how useful I've found it and to thank all the contributors. I'm the new custodian of the C9/B that was on Milweb, and which some of you have mentioned. It has been nicely restored and has almost all of its type-specific fittings but there's a few small things that need doing to improve its originality. The engine and box are post-war sky blue so they'll have to be repainted and, from the thread, I know what colour they should be now.

There's a water leak on the RHS of the engine from either the head gasket or the pressed steel water jacket cover. Can anybody suggest where this leak might be coming from? I haven't looked too closely yet. If it's the cover, is it an easy thing to repair or reproduce, or are NOS available?

The truck's chassis number shows that it's from the first production batch but I don't know its original Army number. Is there any way of finding out?

What a great photo. It's good to see some RAF vehicles and a Queen Mary.

Heaven only knows what explanatory photos would have been posted if somebody had misidentified the trailer as a Prince Albert ...

Hi Big Chris,

What's hidden away must be well hidden, because even I can't find it. Most of the old Land Rover stuff is already in my garden!

Hi, I'm Secretary of the Manx Aviation & Military Museum which is run by unpaid volunteers like me as a way of repaying a debt and saying thank you to the men & women who served their country when they were needed. I've recently taken early retirement so that I can spend more time on museum work.

I've joined the forum because we've just bought a Morris-Commercial C9/B SP Bofors gun, a type which was used by the 15th Light Anti-Aircraft Regiment, R.A. (the Manx Regiment) from D-Day onwards. We've been looking for one for years and one finally turned up on Milweb. I can only find references to four of these vehicles - ours, Cobbaton Combat's, the RA Museum's and one on the Isle of Wight. Does anybody know of any more?

I'm new to military vehicles but I've been restoring Land Rovers for 30 years (gulp!), mostly Series 1s but including a couple of military ones - Series 2A Lightweight number 72 and a 1949 80". I've got a late S3 Lightweight which is on the road and another early S2A lightweight which definitely isn't, but it will one day. I'll post some pictures when I get time. Oh yes, there's an ex-MoD 4x2 Series 2 around here somewhere, too! Oh, and a 1963 S2A rolling chassis which is also ex-MoD!

I joined the forum to find out more about the Morris - anorak stuff like what colour should the engine block be, and also to find where to get spares. I've been very impressed with the depth of knowledge that many members have and I hope that I can help others in time. About all that I've got to offer anyone right now is an electronic copy of the Maintenance Manual & User Instructions for the Morris-Commercial C8 FAT, C8 A.T. Portee, C8/P and C9/B. It's available on disc for a small donation to museum funds.