Swill1952xs

Hi dudes,

tonight I've E mailed the Biggar Museum Trust, who have kept the Albion archives. I was hoping they could tell me more about my donor truck and I've asked them for any copies of manuals, specification sheets and wiring diagrams they may have from their treasures.

When I wrote to them in about 92 (Just after I bought it) they said they had a manual for the civilian version of the HD 23 (Has any one ever seen one of these) which is very similar. At the time they offered to copy it for me for ten pounds, and hopefully they will still have it and possibly more.

 

Something I didn't mention about the seized engine in the donor truck; is that I looked all around the engine for frost damage and couldn't see any. The parts I would have expected to have failed being the water pump mounted adjacent to the bellhousing at the back of the block, and the cooling jacket side plates. These engines are certainly very different from modern engines. The air inlet manifolds are built into the rocker covers, the dynamo is driven by a separate

drive shaft on the bottom of the timing cover, and the compressor, injector pump and water pump are all driven by a common auxiliary shaft above that.

There is external adjustment on the clutch cover but I'm not sure how the adjustment is made.

 

Maybe this would be a good time to move this to a new home in the restoration blogs.........if anyone would be kind enough to do it for me.

 

No doubt Energumen will be watching this with interest, so I'll do my best to keep the ball rolling with the restoration. Thanks for taking the time to read my posts. :coffee:

Just read all twenty six pages of this subject. Fascinating reading for someone like myself. (A mechanic of many years) If I was the one doing the engine, I'd be so peed off at having to do it all again that I wouldn't have been able to document it in the way you did. Top marks to you for all the excellent photography and having the patience to reply to all the suggestions and comments.

I couldn't think why the problem occurred either but wish you all the best with this overhaul, and hope it was something freaky that caused it. I really hate it when there is no obvious explanation for a fault. Of course it would only happen when the engine is installed in this way. If it was a generator or something easy to work on; it wouldn't have happened.

My biggest surprise was that the engine is indirect injection. Something I normally associate with small engines. I wonder why they decided to fuel it in this way. Is it a particularly high revving engine?

Thanks again for a fascinating topic.

Will,

 

I would say that one or more pistons are stuck in the bore. As you have a slight rock on the crankshaft, this indicates pistons. Although you may think that it cannot rust, there will be at a piston with open valves, and also internal condensation so why not take the injectors out and put a bit of diesel down each bore. Refit the injectors so nothing gets into the cylinders. Leave for a week or so, then try rocking the crank again and hopefully you will gradually be able to move it. This is best done by hand, not on the starter.

 

Thanks for the suggestion. I had thought about the diesel trick as I'm very reluctant to dismantle any of it, mainly due to the lack of spares. My other engine still runs reasonably well so I may at the very worst; have to use that one.

 

I might have problems getting the injectors out. If I do, I may pull the rocker covers and empty some diesel down the exhaust ports. I can always wind the tappet adjusters down a little to lift the valves off their seats, but no more than is necessary without knowing how much clearance there is between the valves and pistons. I have to try this method as I have little to lose. Thanks for being helpful. :thumbsup:

Well............ Had a bit of a sad day really. I went armed with a pair of batteries to fire up "Arfur" (The front half of my donor Albion). I checked the oil which looked fine but a bit low. It had no coolant in it so I thought; if it starts I will only run it for a few minutes at a time.

 

I put the batteries on it and couldn't get the starter to engage until I found a loose wire coming up through the floor from the starter motor. I dabbed it on the battery and it went "Clunk" and nothing moved. I tried to turn the propshaft with it in neutral, and couldn't turn that either. The gearbox appears to be stuck in gear although you can move the gearlever and select other gears. I wondered if this was the problem with the engine, and managed to free off the clutch to disengage the gearbox.

The engine still wouldn't turn over, so I took the vent plate off of the bellhousing to try and turn it from there. One long bar, one squashed finger and bruised thumb later; I decided that unfortunately the engine must be seized. I did manage to move it by levering the clutch backwards and forwards by about four inches, but something inside the engine feels awfully dry, and it wont move any further either way as yet. It's a real shame as I was led to believe it was a good engine. I'm surprised it was seized as diesels don't normally seize through standing......unless water got into the engine before I bought it. I'm not too worried about the gearbox problem, but I did want to use the engine in my restoration. Sadly I doubt whether there are any parts available for this engine, even if I could identify it. Someone mentioned that it could be what is known as the "(900)" engine which has the compressor mounted in front of the injector pump. My other engine has a chain driven compressor mounted on the side.

 

I had a good look around the cab; and although the roof is fu...... sorry, beyond repair; most of the cab and especially the front panel and windscreen frames are in pretty good condition. I suppose the next job will be to carefully dismantle the cab and start by restoring each side and the back first. I think it will be easier to restore these panels complete and then just transfer them to the complete truck.

 

I saw something on the rear engine mountings that intrigued me immensely. The engine mountings have a right angled arm supporting the engine in a rubber bush. The right angled arms have coil springs on them acting as lateral dampers, but the strangest thing of all was the brackets inside the chassis which look like little dumpy hydraulic cylinders, and have interlinked steel pipes going to both sides of the engine. I haven't as yet found out where the pipes are fed from , whether they have air or oil pressure in them. No doubt as time goes by, I will find all sorts of engineering peculiarities with this beastie. The front of the engine appears to be mounted on a elliptical leaf spring arrangement.

 

It's such a shame my donor truck was cut up before I bought it as this one was also an "S" (Short wheelbase) and the chassis number was 61218D and my original truck has the chassis number 61210K. I wonder why the suffixes were different.

 

Well if you haven't fallen asleep yet........I'll keep you posted of any progress made asap. :sleep:

If you want to experience this legally.............try going to Diggerland in Kent or the one near Exeter. They have a bucket on a thirteen ton? digger that seats eight. It depends on how evil the driver's feeling as to what sort of ride you get. The Exeter one was called "Spin Dizzy" I didn't go on it; and although it looks fairly tame, those who did ride on it said it was surprisingly exhilarating. :shocked:

If you can get hold of some........... try neat Bio Diesel. It cleaned up the aluminium on the side of my artic trailer a treat. It isn't corrosive like some cleaners and is obviously oil soluble. All you have to do is soak it in submersion and leave it. It also cleans brass very well too.

Thanks for the offer of help moving my truck. The person who owns the land it is now parked on has a beaver tail six wheeler and should be able to move it for me for about a hundred quid. Another alternative was to tow it, but it has worm and wheel diffs so I wouldn't have thought it would be possible.

 

This one does have the advantage of power steering which was fitted in Freshfield Lane brickworks workshop.

 

I will take some photos when it is moved. Photographing it at the moment is impossible as it is parked between some trees and a barn,

Sounds about ready for a road run, but do tax and insure it first :-D

 

As it doesn't need an MOT, I had actually thought about taxing and insuring it

to move it to its new home to save the cost of haulage. (Just joking really) It is nearly roadworthy though.................. the headlights and the O/S semaphore indicator still work. The semaphore indicator works so well that I wouldn't want to get in its way when it comes out. It would be like a Karate chop :-D

Hi Dudes,

Things may soon start happening with my dear old Albion. I paid it a visit today to prepare it for being moved to its new home.

 

I think it must be somewhere in the region of eight years since it was last running and driven. It was looking very dilapidated with a green haze (Micro vegetation, sadly; not paint) covering over half of it. The cab windows were opaque, and the tyres were all nearly flat. :cry: Thank God mine's a diesel conversion, as I wouldn't like to try and start a petrol one after all this time.

I put a pair of brand new Transit batteries on it and was rather despondent to find the starter wouldn't work. Fiddling around with the ignition switch soon sorted that little problem. I gave it a try before I put some water in the cooling system and guess what? It started like someone drove it yesterday............ bl**dy amazing innit. :yay:

I filled the cooling system and started it again, connected up the tyre inflator and pumped up the tyres, pressure washed the outside of it and removed the front wings which have now collapsed and fallen from their mountings. After freeing off the handbrake lever, I drove it out of its parking space to finish washing it. It looks a hundred times better already just by washing off all the slime and dirt.

 

I will take some pictures of it when I move it, which should be mid Feb.

 

The engine is a bit smokey when it starts up (Diesel smoke) and accelerator response is a bit delayed, but I suspect the fuel filter is probably nearly blocked, and it has some old, if not very old gas oil in the fuel tank, which probably isn't helping either.

 

Next on the list is a visit to my other Albion (Front half) known as "Arfur" and see if it is still where I left it, as I haven't seen that one for a couple of years. That was the one I bought from Crouch's at Husbands Bosworth. I would love to try and start that one too just out of curiosity, as it has a more modern and more powerful version of the engine fitted to the one I will restore. I'm led to believe this engine is a bit of a snorter. as Dave Crouch used it himself for recoveries.

I will keep you posted on that ones progress .

Funny thought...........just imagine what they would look like if we had to rely on them for our safety now.

 

They would have to be about ten times the size they are now so the kids could have some "Privacy" Each one would have a wind powered generator on top of it, Each would have to have a shower and flushing toilet, a kitchen and central heating, a place for the kids PS3.

 

Just imagine telling the "Yoof" of today that they had to spend the night in the conditions shown in the pictures. Screaming and kicking comes to mind. :-D

That certainly gives you a lot to think about after watching it. How on earth those men lived and fought in those conditions is unimaginable. It also is a good reminder of how far we've come since those days. They never had the benefits of medical and medicine technology that we have today. The sheer terror they must have experienced combined with the atrocious conditions they fought and lived under, and their life expectancy must have been very demoralising for them. The will to live and the hatred of their enemies must have been about all that kept them going. I've heard of soldiers being shot for cowardice after fleeing the battle zone and wonder just how many did; as not everyone has the strength of character to endure constant battle. I remember as a child seeing and hearing men walking down the street, talking to themselves, sometimes shouting loudly and in an uncontrolled manner and having my parents explain to me that they were suffering from something called "Shell Shock", as it was known then. I would imagine that mild sufferers would have been allowed to integrate with society, but I wonder how many were committed to "Lunatic Assylums" and labeled insane.

I often wonder how they managed without communication equipment that probably would have saved maybe hundreds of thousands of lives. They never had the benefit of airlifts to ferry the injured to surgical units, and no doubt most of us have heard of the horrific accounts of amputations carried out during battle.

 

The war in Vietnam has some very vivid and unpleasant memories and the after effects of the conflict are still evident. The things which stick in my mind most of all being Napalm, the naked and horribly burnt little girl running naked down the road, and the horrific after effects of "Defoliants" used. (Agent orange?). What a bloody waste of time, life and money that war was. Sort of the 1960's version of Iraq. Never achieved anything.

 

I was fortunate enough to miss WW2 by seven years and my only recollection of war affecting our country was the war in the Falklands. Some of the images and names from that period will always be in my memory. A least the soldiers who fought in that war had the benefit of modern medicine. Thinking in particular of Simon Weston and the way his face was reconstructed.

 

How different wars are now, laser guided bombs, HSE saying soldiers are now no longer allowed to jump from moving vehicles, soldiers virtually have to face a murder enquiry for shooting someone...... now thinking in particular of the recent war in Iraq. (Would have been better had Blair not had his head up Bush's a**se and we didn't go there in the first place.)

 

There will always be wars, usually caused by bigoted fanatics. All we can hope for is the gaps between them will get bigger, and that the lives of our fellow countrymen and women, will not be wasted fighting someone else's wars and crusades.

 

Remember the words of Edwin Star's song, War,................ what is it good for?...........absolutely nothing................well apart from the development of future Historic Military Vehicles :-D

Well..........

 

I'm going to stick with posting in this section.........it's just right for me. Not "I may be stupid"..........I definitely am.

 

So far, in nineteen days and seventeen posts, I appear to have insulted a member with a Scammell who was kind enough to display it in use at Laughton, and actually let me drive it. Everyone seems to know who this person is except me, although I have a good idea who this person is?

 

Secondly I appear to have run down the FOT at Hellingly without knowing the background of this forums input to the show. Haven't exactly made myself too popular by the seem of it.

 

I hope to see some of your vehicles at both shows next year......but I wont be proudly introducing myself. I will be the one shuffling past looking a bit sheepish.:-(

 

I was going to cancel my membership, but being stupid, I couldn't find out how to do that........and to add insult to injury; my friends list is empty too.

.

Pops had a Stolly with a crane. He first tried his in the Thames at Twickenham slipway. Unfortunatly he only had one of the jets so he could'nt steer anywhere but i think the test was only to see if it could float. It's just a shame he died before he finished it. On another note one of my dad's friends Swam a Stolly from Hayling island to the I.O.W in 94 or 95.

 

Crossing from Hayling Island to the I.O.W with a Stalwart is probably cheaper than going across by ferry. The worrying thing being the number of ships that have gone down on this stretch of water.

It would be rather fun to race a ferry across, just to see the faces of the people on board. :-D

Would'nt mind betting he is on this forum :rofl:

 

Snot you is it..............hmmm.....:-D. You can bet your boots he is, and it wont take long for him to find my post.

 

Oh well..........spose I wont get to drive it again after this. It saddens me though that people exhibiting vehicles at shows are often rude and uncommunicative. Ok so they probably get peed off hearing everyones boring recollections of the one their great uncle had, but that's the name of the game, and what keeps these shows going.

I'm inclined to agree with the theory about the timber forwarder, but wonder what the origins of the steel arch would have been. Could it have been a mounting ring for a gun of some sort that has been cut up, or would it have been that shape originally. It certainly was built for a very heavy application. Any ideas?

I regularly see a couple of Stalwarts on the roadside between Cooksbridge and South Chailey in East Sussex. (A 275) The one that really interests me has a Hiab fitted to it. The owner has had several Army land Rovers there at times too, including the most interesting of those, being a forward control version

 

I know the guy with the land rovers the 101 is ex first gulf war. I think the stollys are his next door neigbours

 

Handy having a neighbour who shares your interest. I could do with chasing up my uncle from Shoreham, who I haven't seen for a good few years. He had a Leyland six wheeler cargo bodied truck (Beaver?) dating from about 1944 and his son Gary had a Scammell Pioneer in desert colours. The last time I saw them was about ten years ago at the Laughton vintage show which is held in September. I just love that show, and think it's ten times better than the Festival of Transport.

 

Several years ago at Laughton, I met a miserable Scammell Explorer driver who was demonstrating its abilities over the mound of dirt they have there. I asked him if he was enjoying showing it off on the sort of terrain it was built for, and he replied that he was very bored doing it. I told him I used to drive a Pioneer doing recoveries with it; to which he replied "Everyones driven a Scammell..........you can have a go if you want to?" Miserable git! I asked him if he was serious and he said he was. I was in the seat by the time he'd finished speaking. I bet he thought I wouldn't have a clue what to do as he just sat there without speaking. After a brief look around I was off which shot him up the dirtbox and I went round two different ways having the time of my life. Unforgettable moment.

 

why not try ticking the remember me box when you sighn in ...... oh and welcome onboard :coffee:

Many thanks for your reply. I'll give it a go next time I log in. Bed time now for me. Got a 2;30 start tomorrow morning. :yawn:

1) - Yes and NO!!

 

2) - NO!!

 

3) - Sort of! the air inlet and outlets open into the hull, the engine air intakes are located just under the load bed decking so a degree of water can be taken onboards before problems arise.

 

4) - 9 Tons unloaded, load capacity is 5 tons hence the bridging plate figure of 14 for the FV620 and FV622. Add 2 tons to the unladen weight for the FV324 and 624 versions fitted with Hiabs.

 

5) - Hulls are supposed to be completely water tight but incorporate both automatic and manual bilge pumps for accidental water ingress and slight leaks

 

6) - Probably! That said the Bundeswehr tested theirs by driving off the end of a pier at 30 mph so maybe the one you saw had a German driver!!

 

The Hiab equipped versions (FV623 and FV624) are possibly more useful but note that if the engine is't running - neither does the crane unlike on an FV434. And that Hiab add 2 tons to the unladen weight which results in added stress on the front 4 wheel stations and a pronounced nose down attitude when swimming. Personally I prefer the GS variants, the FV620 and FV622 but each to his (or her) own!

 

Bu**er me. I didn't expect a reply quite as quick as that. Many thanks for your reply and knowledgeable information. As for swimming with a Hiab version.............no way. I'd rather not go in the water with one. Swimming in an Argo Cat put me off that idea.

'Ere's sumfink that really gets up my nose about this forum.

 

If I write a post or reply to one, go to the toilet, nip downstairs for a fag, (Wife doesn't allow smoking in the bedroom) or a cup of coffee; I come back and find that I've been logged out and have to log in again. :argh:

 

It's doin' my flippin 'ead in. :cry: The other forum I was on allowed me to login for one hour, one day, or indefinitely. Is it supposed to do this as I understand you have had "Spam" problems, or is there a way to stay logged in until I shut down my old 'puter. Other than that, I'm really pleased I found this forum and some East Sussex members.

As a lover of heavy transport, the Alvis Stalwart has always fascinated me as do most amphibious vehicles. In one section on here I saw what can only be described as an act of total lunacy. Anyone who would launch a Stalwart off a river bank at speed and "Dive" into a river in the way shown; must have a serious death wish. I'm glad I wasn't a passenger at the time, being a non swimmer.

 

The point of this post being to ask a few questions about this wonderful piece of engineering.

 

1- Is the cargo body part of the vehicles buoyancy equipment. ie, if it filled with water, would it still float?

 

2- Is the vehicle designed to "Self right" in water. ie, if it rolled sideways down a bank into water?

 

3- In the event of it briefly becoming submerged, as in a dive into water; is there any protection for the engines air intake to stop water being drawn into the engine? (Via the air intake)

 

4- How much does a Stalwart weigh, and how much weight can it carry in water.

 

5- Are the hulls completely watertight, or do they rely on a bilge pump to remove water from inside?

 

6- Should the driver of the Stalwart in the video be committed as a loony?

 

I regularly see a couple of Stalwarts on the roadside between Cooksbridge and South Chailey in East Sussex. (A 275) The one that really interests me has a Hiab fitted to it. The owner has had several Army land Rovers there at times too, including the most interesting of those, being a forward control version?

But do we know where it is now and whether it is being repaired/restored or broken for spares ?

Does anyone know where this picture was taken. I bought the front end of an Albion (Arfur) from a firm called Crouch Recovery in Husbands Bosworth, Leicestershire. I believe it was him that cut it in half and sold the rear axles. If it is the same person; he had several WD HD 23N Albions laying around his property. Some were in a really bad state. It was a pity he didn't sell the axles off of the N's he had and kept the 'S' complete. :-(

Well, it looks to me to be a part of a mobile self propelled weaving loom. The bobbins give the game away. It would have full bobbins of yarn on it, and as it is driven along carpet comes out the back. Simple really! :-D

 

There ya go dudes.................. welcome to Wills juvenile side. :rofl:

For what its worth I think a restored tipper would look the B-----ks ! :-D

I'm inclined to agree with you. I could just see it in my mind lined up with some Matadors, Explorers, Poineers, Militants etc. I'd love to see it with a low loader plant trailer behind it and a Weatherill (Is that spelled correctly) loading shovel perched on it. :goodidea:

OK Will, I think it is time for you to give us the "now" condition picture :cool2:

I'll try and get some in the next few weeks. I'm really sad that I have let it get so bad, but every year I've said I am going to get started on it this year, and it never happened. Now I've joined this forum I have little choice but to get on with it before I get "Labeled" as a dreamer not a doer.

 

Got to go now, got a 2:30 start tomorrow and need me beauty sleep. Catch ya later chaps ........:yay:

Good luck with that one mate. What a beast.....

 

welcome to the friendly forum. Enjoy the facilities, keep your feet off the furniture and do not touch my custard creams.

Huh.........it aint that friendly if you aren't going to share the custard creams. I wouldn't care if they were Jaffa cakes, cos I don't like them any way. :-D