Jimmy60

Clive, Well noted and I will do the testing to see if I do have spares in working condition. Meanwhile I really want to thank you so much for your support !!! Very honestly I think that I would have gave up since long if not feeling pushed by you on my research. I really learnt that patience is a key, and step by step approach a good solution, if not the only one. Your documentation and knowledge is a real bible and you can be sure that I will strongly advertise it on the French Forum I participate for my friends that have old FFR Series or Light. If not that far I would have come to pay a beer !!!! Thanks again for all the help !!! Jimmy

I think I made some good progress today : Whne reassembling the brush assembly, I noticed that one was not really in the good side. The little cable for connection was kind of blocking the spring pressure. So I put it back ans I think it changed the pressure that was exercised on the e brush. I then reassemble everything and guess what : I had light at the charging light and the ammeters are moving !!!! So I measured the voltage at choke level and had 28,5 to 29 V and around 27,4 at batteries level: around almost 2 V more than when checking the batteries alone. But : as a there is always a but ! When I start the car, the needle of ammeter goes significantly to the right showing that it is charging, but comes back to almost 0 almost immediately. then if I run the engine at a higher speed, it doesn't move anymore, but remains higher than 0 levé,..... should the the needle of the ammeter have a movement link to the level of acceleration of the engine or not ? is it that as far as it looks like charging it is ok ? I would like to know more about the behaviour I should expect from the ammeter. same from the voltage at batteries level. It looks like I have a permaent Superior voltage at batteries level when the engine runs, idepently form engine sped..... thanks for stour advises heers jimmy

Hi, Findings of the day : Resistance at the slip ring level : around 15,2 and 15,5 depending the contact point. When I put back the brush assembly and mesure at the little wire connectors or the screw I have around 17,8 and 19,8 And when I mesure at the U & V pins I have above 21 to 24...... I had no reading at pin level 2 days ago...... I guess the good news is that I have the correct resistance at the slip ring level ! The brushes were changed recently and their length remains within tolerance. I did clean the rings but may be not enough ? What else should I do from here ? As surely I do not have the good required resistance at pin level. Thanks for the advice. Cheers Jimmy

Ok Clive, will check the reading at the slip ring. wich I have not done yet. Only at the pin level. And I can recall that the pin U or V was shaking a bit and the reading (when I had it) was moving from a figure to another. I may have to look at the connector on the generator at a later stage depending on the findings on the slip ring. Will try to do that today. cheers jimmy

Hi, so i made some new checks and must admit I am now a bit confused. weeks ago I had something like 24,5 V between the chokes in the control panel as an output from the generator. But discovered that I had a spring broken at the brush level when measuring the resistance between pin U & V. I changed the brushes, had again 24,5 V between the chokes. Last week I rechecked the resistance between pin U & V as mentioned above and noticed no reading. checked today the brushes, they are ok. Cleaned the split ring. They look ok to me. i still have no reading on the meter, even if at a point of time it went up to above 170 ohms.... after cleaning I had 32, then 17 and then nothing again. when checking the output at the chokes I now have 1 V....... I checked it with 2 different harness..... The 24V output I had was on the former control panel box..... i just changed it recently thinking it could be the reason of the fault..... i would probably need to check again with the former box ?? Anyway, I am really suspecting now a fault at the generator level..... i have 2 generator control panel, 2 mais harness..... and it still doesn't charge the batteries.... If brushes are ok and split ring as well, it means that the generator is faulty no ? cheers Jimmy

Clive, The spring was changed at the same time I changed the brushes. But I may have done something wrong. Stupid question may be but I can chack the resistance between U & V before re-assambling everything ? Will do that tonight or tomorrow morning. Jimmy

Just check the U & V pin at generator level as mentionned in previous threads. I had made this check weeks a go and already had no reading, so checked the carbon brusches and discovered that one of the maintaining spring was broken. All this was changed and I must admit that I didn't recheck after changing the brisches and the spring. I took for granted that this problem was resolved. I was more concentrating on the voltage delivered between the chokes..... Anyway, checking agin this morning I have no reading between U & V Pins !!!! Do you recommend I check again the brushes ?? And dismantle the cover again ? Could it be another problem ? This is a surprise to me. Jimmy

TClive the picture will surelly be of help, thanks a lot. Looking at it, I think I am too far from that. only 2 leads to put back correctly. And this one looks much more in line with your diagram. Will try to do that this evening. Next step will be the new main harness that is confirmed on its way (it's a 17 Ft long, so I guess it's ok). In case it is not hte good one, I found some supplier in france that have new and second hand ones, so I still have a solution in case. hopefully I am touching the solution. Cheers Jimmy

Clive, During my investigation, I did some checkes and I did change the fuse as it was blown off. It is only after the second reading of your document that I realised it was pointless...... (I had a lot of hoe in first instance !!!)

In fact on the picture, we can see that the blue cable connected to the upper side of the vehicle shunt does not come from the panel as it should be. It is coming from the bundle of cables that goes back to the vehicle..... So I put them back as per the diagram in fact.... will try to make a comparaison of the 2 !

When i Checked the cabling of the blue unipren cables, i realized they were not in line with your diagram in page 57. In fact I had to identify them from the end of the harness and the end in the box. There was a mix mainly from the ones coming from the panel in fact that were wronlgy connected. It is not easy to check on this picture as well but I will try to put the corresponding letter on each cable from the panel onto the picture to illustrate what I am saying. In any case, thanks again for the help !!! Jimmy

The lead I mentionned earlier is the one in the red box. I am wondering where it should be connected, as normaly here goes the lead for the Ammeter...... Or it is at the right place and goes with the ead of the ammeter ? (but it would differ from the sketch on page 57 of the doc) The leads in the green box are the ones I moved back to the shunt on the right hand side.

Clive, My mistake, when I mentionned the "red line" I was refering to the red line drawn on the picture on page 57 of the document. Will post a picture. Jimmy

Clive, I mean that the ignition is not working at all. In fact I have no more "contact" as we say in French. Exactly like if I dissconnect the batteries. So I am really wondering where this should be connected..... it looks to me that this lead is part of the supply, and kind of closing the circuit ? Shold i try to connect just under the shunt ?

Clive, For the main harness I tested it with a multimeter on ohms only. I pulled gently the connectors and they were all ok. Nevertheless, I am not too confident in the main harness and found one to buy yesterday. It should be on the way soon. At least I will have a spare one..... A quick one on the shunt box : I tested the Ammeters yesterday evening and the needle is moving as per your advice. But both Ammeter and wired together at theirs leads. And both of them were connected to the Radio Batteries shunt.... This I noticed over the weekend already and plug them back to the vehicle batteires shunt. (it didn't change anything, they were not moving). But I also have another Lead that is connected to the vehicle batteries shunt..... my understanding in your document is that only the leads for the ammeter are connected to both end of the shunt.... If I remove this lead, I simply have no more ignition....... I suspect it is the lead that goes to the vehicle batteries (red line on the picture in the doc).... Do you think this could create a problem in the overall circuit ? Cheers Jimmy

Thanks Clive ! I will check the Ammeter just to see then. Noted that they can't be the cause of the fault. So if I try to Sum up where I stand : - The Control Panel is ok (I doubt I have 2 faulty ones) - The Shunt box may not be the reason of not charging So I guess I should look again at the Generator level ? The main connexion harness was ok when I tested it. All the pins where ok. And I have change the brushes of the Generator as one was broken (spring) Any other possibility to check the Generator output other than between the 2 main chokes in the Generator Panel ? Cheers Jimmy

Hi all, It seems that the problem does not come from the Control Panel. I maanged to get a new one, and the problem of not charging remains the same. Looking into the shunt box, I realized that the cabling was not following the drawing in the "Charged Up". Made some adjustment but it remain the same, with th eonly difference, that now the charge light doesn't come up any more at all. So was just wondering if the problem could really come from the Shunt box on its own ? And if the ammeter were faulty ? Would it affect the charging of the batteries ? For now the ammeter does move at all..... if ant one has an idea...... Thanks Jimmy

Hi Guys, To reply to Clive : the switch is correctly positionned to High. I will try to clean the regulator contacts. When following the fault finding chart, I remeber that I noticed a difference in the results I obtained when the regulator is open or closed. I supect it odes not really function as it should..... Will check and revert. To artistsrifle : my 109 has the 2 ammeters in the dash. The shunt box is behind the driver seat (I have a left handed one) and the control panel is at the back, as shown on your picture. I do not have disctribution box, I guess it was removed. I had test the main cables from Generator to Control panel, it looks ok, even If I would prefer to change it if it was not so expensive. Will try to make and post some pictures in the next couple of days. Cheers Jimmy

Hi all, Took me a while to find the time to move on on my problem but finally was able to move a bit. I have changed the brushes of the Generator and I now have a better output at the Panel level. I have roughtly 24.5V between the chocks which is equivalent to what I have at the batteries level. But, there is still no charge to the batteries, so my problem remains all there as I cannot move too far from home.... I guess that the problem might come from the relay or the regulator. It is a bit difficult for me at this stage to continue touching left and right as I clearly reach the limit of my competences.... Would you recommand I buy a reconditioned Control Panel to see if it resolves the issue ? Thanks a lot for your feedback. Cheers Jimmy

Thanks a lot !!

Hi Guys, Thanks for your feedback. Clive, no worries, I am not in a hurry and can easilly give all necessary time. Regarding the earthing, yes, I definitelly have a problem there that I have identified. The earth leed from both Panel and Shunt boxes were cut somehow. So I have ordered them and will replace. I have checked all the others on the body and they look ok. The brushes are on the way and this was surelly a change to be made. I will recheck the cable as well. so for now the plan is to change the brushes, put back the earthing leeds correctly, reconnect all and see what it gives. I will post here what are the results when I am through. I do not think I will be able to do this before the end of the week anyway.... Meanwhile, just in case, any idea where I could find the spring that maintains the brush in place ?? PN : 600825 Cheers Jimmy

Hi all, As mentioned in my introduction, my first area of concern is with the electrical side of my 109 FFR Land Rover. I read a lot of forum thread with similar subject as well as some documentation in order to understand my problem, but must admit that I will soon reach competnecies limits. I will try to make it short and factual : - The main problem is with the charging of the batteries. I realized it was a problem when after a period of time the vehicle did not start anymore. It was winter and I was absolutelly not familliar witht the vehicle itself and its specificities. I thought that the vehicle was not running enough (as I had no plates) and that it would charge whan I start to use it on regular basis. In meantime I started to read the manuals and look for information. - First findings were : no changes in the voltage when running the engine and checking voltage at batteries terminals. No movement at all at Ammeters. Ignition light showing red and not coming off even when running. - To the best of my knowledge the Ammeters never worked and to want I can guess from the discharge of the batteries, it was like this from day one in my custody. - At a point of time, the Ignition light started to behave as it should. Showing when at low regime and going off when driving. But there were still no charge at the batteries and no movement at the ammeters. - after a while (recently), the ignition light stopped showing red when starting the engine, nut was now showing red when ignition off and key removed from ignition...... - Based on all the reading I made (All charged Up), I can now say the following : 1/ I have a 90 amp Gnerator No10 MK3 with a Generator Panel No9 MK3 (which explains the fact that the ignition light might not behave at it should). 2/ I have a shunt box with no ammeters on it 3/ I have 2 ammeters on the dash This seems not to be the common set up as if I follow the findings of Clive I should have a MK2 Generator. So I guess it was changed during it's service in the BOAR...... So I went into some checking and findings at different points : - The output at the choke level is between 5 and 10 V so the batteriy relay can't work normally I guess. - The regulator does not give the figures as explain in Clive's doc : approx 40 ohms, so needs to be checked. - Tested also the field winding of the generator and discoverd that the carbon brush are damaged. In fact on of the srping if broken and does not push the brush anymore. I have ordered the brush and hope a spring will come with it to replace..... The wiring inside the Shunt box is not as per the picture int he documentation. Especially for the wires of the ammeters. It looks like it has been directly connected or something like this. The wire from the vehicle shunt is not connected at the shunt itself but to a wire coming from harness from Generator Panel to Shunt box..... I have also checked the harness from Generatro to Generator panel and it seems (but need a better check) that continuity on U & V are not there. This worries me a lot as the price for the harness is almost the price of the vehicle itself. Anway this is where I stand for now. When I receive the brushes I will install and check if the output of the Generator improves and goes to normal.... If not then I guess I will have to check the diodes and this will probably start to be complicated for my level. If ok then I will concentrate on the Panel and the Shunt box. One of my questions after that is can we by pass part of this installation or not ? I would say that my only target is to charge the batteries in fact ..... Thanks a lot for all your comments / suggestions / adivses. Jimmy

Thanks for the offer Clive, but yes, it is a bit too far (for now !) I will put all my findinds and questions in a separate post in the appropriate area of the forum, and I am sure a lot of it will be very familiar to you ! Jimmy

Hi all, My name is Jimmy, I leave close to Paris up north (I am French). Recently purchased a Land Rover 109 FFR Series 3 from LJackson and received it in France. The vehicle was assigned to the BAOR and stayed in Germany a good 20 years under NATO organization. Since then I am experiencing quite a number of problems mainly on the electrical aspect. Went through a lot of reading from Clive's documentation and advises (which is really amazing), and trying to progress. I am sure I will have a lot of requested in the near future. Glad to join the forum. Cheers Jimmy