SimonBrown

7 minutes ago, Tony B said:

I know the whole area. It was where I was brought up and learnt to sail. Don't want to rain on your parade, but it won't be an easy task. The Race, the tides, the French Nuclear power station at Flamanville, the French get very ansty with any dive or survey vesels going anywhere near it. I wish you luck, be I'm sure you understand my scekeptisism. 

Finger trouble - duplicate.

9 minutes ago, Tony B said:

I know the whole area. It was where I was brought up and learnt to sail. Don't want to rain on your parade, but it won't be an easy task. The Race, the tides, the French Nuclear power station at Flamanville, the French get very ansty with any dive or survey vesels going anywhere near it. I wish you luck, be I'm sure you understand my scekeptisism. 

We are long way off the French coast and nowhere near their nuclear power station thankfully. The report of crashing near Alderney is not strictly accurate and a better description might be 'mid Channel'. 

Easy? No, otherwise it would have been done. We have spent 10 years on and off reducing the odds to a point they are very much in our favour.

27 minutes ago, Tony B said:

If he went down off Alderney , it could have well ended up in Hurd's  Deep. If so then everything from WW2 munitions to radioactive waste has been dumped there. 

We are quietly confident he didn't end up in Hurd's Deep. But yes, a former dumping ground for all sorts of nasties.

Hi All - not armoured or military vehicle related, but a Cold War era story that you could not make up.

In 1969 a USAF Crew Chief stole a Hercules C-130 with the intention of flying home to Virginia from Mildenhall. He didn't make it, crashing in the English Channel.

We are now planning to search for the crash site, as we think it may answer a few questions. To offset some of the costs we have launched a Kickstarter campaign:

Finding Meyer's Herc

If nothing else, do play the video. You really couldn't make this one up but it really happened.

1 hour ago, john1950 said:

Thanks, It is dificult because of the grainy picture But I will keep trying and put better identification if I can.

Hi John - The Stanier Association have reported the locomotive to be Palestine Railways P Class 4-6-0.

Many thanks all - its been confirmed elsewhere its not a Stanier.

And thanks for the vehicle IDs John - much appreciated.

The search continues...

Once again I turn to the collective knowledge of HMVF. 

Can anyone give some IDs for the vehicles in this image:

IWM British Army in Egypt 1942

There looks to be a mix of vehicles, and the locomotive may just be a Stanier 8F. 

Any ideas what we have in the image?

As ever, many thanks to all. Much appreciated.

The Imperial War Museum have this image of lorries crossing a floating bridge:

Albions on floating bridge?

And I think the vehicle is an Albion BY3?

Could anyone confirm, or otherwise?

Close to where I live in North East Hampshire there is the remains of tank testing:

Hazeley Heath Tank Testing

In the nearby undergrowth there are a couple of sections of tank track lying around, one of which might be from a Churchill. 

Until recently I was unaware of its existence, but I will take a ride over there at some point, check it out and get some photos of the track sections.

In the meantime, does anyone here know any more about the site?

Richard and John - thank you both very much for the info. Much appreciated.

All,

The Imperial War Museum has this image in its archives:

Albion AM463

But the vehicle is not identified. Can anyone confirm if it is an Albion AM463?

5 hours ago, Chris Hall said:

Under the laws of salvage, does a lost/sunk government owned ship and its cargo not remain the property of that government regardless of age?

Short answer is 'depends'.

If Merchant Navy then the ship will have an owner, who in turn may have insured it against loss. 

The cargo would have been owned by someone, who in turn may have insured it against loss.

If insured and duly paid out, then the insurance company will own whatever is on the seabed. Uninsured losses remain the property of their owners.

If a warship, then the government/country it served.

Thats my very basic understanding, but maritime law will be more complex in the detail.

1 hour ago, LarryH57 said:

I wonder how the guys who restored the Stug IIIG in the UK got on a some years ago? Its the one thats running and last seen by me at Duxford.

This Stug IIIG came from the ship sunk off Crimea

What process did they employ?

The Black Sea - the water surrounding Crimea - has differing salinity levels to the seas around our shores (for example). Below certain depths its anoxic - lacking oxygen - and together these factors would really limit corrosion, either whilst submerged or after recovery.

So it might have been a quick wash down and buff up with WD-40 and it was good to go...

13 hours ago, Hair Bear said:

Going off on a slight tangent, I've heard rumor of a narrow gauge railway running east-west direction just south of the A30 between Gibraltar Barracks at Minley and Blackwater. There is supposed to be a small girder bridge out there somewhere! Not an area I'm familiar with so does anyone else know anything?

This is a new one for me. Never heard of a narrow gauge railway on that part of the Common...but I will have a ride out that way in the next few weeks and have a look around.

7 minutes ago, john1950 said:

I think that makes 3 recovered from that ship, I have seem pictures of another 1 ashore on the dock. I wonder where they are now. Pity nothing can be recovered from the Thistlegorm. Great information, a good use of utube.

Looking from a purely financial viewpoint, leaving everything on in-situ on Thistlegorm makes more sense to the local economy: The recovered object can be sold by the locals just once, but divers will return over and over again and keep paying good money to see the cargo in-situ.

Its worth remembering Egypt is a poor country and right now needs the tourist revenue...I digress...

I do have accurate 3D data of the cargo - is there anything specific you need to look at in detail?

I used measurements read from the 3D model to confirm the ID of a vehicle from hold four thats now mostly rotted away on the seabed, leaving the engine block and axles as a reminder of what was. It was the dimensions of those parts - measured here in the comfort of my office - that helped with the confirmation.

So if you want any measurements or details checking, just let me know.

5 hours ago, BC312 said:

Just to add were there any makes names on the machinery.

Yes there are.

The engine and winch assembly was built by ACE Machinery and the engine itself was manufactured by Lister.

Many thanks for all the suggestions. Here's our thoughts:

Spares for the ship itself? Possible, but if they were carrying 60 of them...seems excessive?

Spares for ships of another type? Possible, as the destination was Alexandria.

Light or sound? Yes, possibly...

Vent or valve? Ditto...

We are ruling nothing in, or out. The hunt for the manifest continues, but in the meantime do please keep the suggestions coming.

A pump, or part of a pumping system of some form, is not something we had considered - many thanks for these suggestions gentlemen. It is most appreciated.

The form/shape has a real purpose. What needs to go from large diameter cylindrical to smaller square section over the distance of about 2" 9'?

Having looked at the top image again, it does appear there are holes in the bell housing end of things...all ideas most welcome...

1 hour ago, john1950 said:

It might be worth looking for cargo manifests for other ships in the convoy as they may have split the consignment.

Good idea...not one we had thought of...however...

As far as we know, the ship split from the main convoy and towards and headed around the Cape on its own. 

11 hours ago, Tony B said:

Any idea of what they are made off? Width of the apature etc.  About 2 foot 9 inch in proper measurment. That's a fairly substantial bit of kit. 

Substantial, yes. And I have just counted 60 of them in the forward hold. 

Not sure what they are made of. Guess is casting, and looking at the corrosion its ferrous rather than aluminium.

Two more images with a view on the ends with some more measurements. Originally they had covers over the 'bellhousing' end:

11 hours ago, john1950 said:

Is there a cargo manifest?

The search for that continues...so far, every lead has ended in a dead end.

In hold number 1, lower deck, of the SS Thistlegorm are a pile of mystery objects. There is debate amongst the team - Alex thinks they might be searchlight mounts, but I feel they look like gearbox casings with a distinctive bell housing shape at one end....however the square section at the other end seems at odds with this.

One image shows the shape/form and the other gives an overall dimension. If anyone needs a specific measurement or two, just let me know.

Its a significant amount of cargo and we have yet to nail it down. Hope the collective thoughts of HMVF can assist?

4 hours ago, RAFMT said:

There was (and i presume still is) a Crossley Q type tractor unit in the Shopland Collection, and crash tender on display at RAF Museum Cosford.

Many thanks for this - both to RAFMT & Niels v.

The Crossley Q examples on the Thistlegorm are the flatbed variant, and have a very distinctive curved roof. Its like the designer was inspired by their garden shed...we are hoping that a flatbed is either under restoration, or nearing completion. Its now the last vehicle lacking a survivor...

To resurrect this thread...There are 10 Crossley Type Q lorries on the wreck of the SS Thistlegorm. Of all the vehicle types and models carried on the ship, the Crossley is the only one now listed has having no known survivors. The Albion FBE variant was the other vehicle that was missing, but that one is under progress (Good luck Paul).

But this thread hints there may be a restoration  of a Crossley underway?