flandersflyer
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Posts posted by flandersflyer
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3 hours ago, k2lofty said:
When using sand packed steel tube you can apply heat, I am fairly sure this may effect the ice.
I'm Fairly sure it'd affect the copper as well...
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19 minutes ago, k2lofty said:
I have achieved success using fine sand, but it is essential to wooden plug one end solid, and use a tapered plug for the other, once filled with fine sand, bang the taper on the floor and continue to drive it in until the tube rings like a bell (solid bar) it is then properly packed, and if annealed, you wood formers may work. A cheap route worth a try.
This is why I'd fill it with water...then freeze it...
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23 minutes ago, andypugh said:
Makers of brass instruments apparently use soapy ice:
https://youtu.be/8NAaRQUTp9g?t=3m18s
Plumbers would use a bending spring:
But I can't see one bigger than 28mm. Though I suppose you could make one with a suitable mandrel and some steel wire (wouldn't even need to be spring wire, but would be better as square.
I have never tried sand as a filler, but I have tried sugar, with no luck at all.
I have heard of using lead or Woods Metal. I think that you would need to use a lot o force in that case.
I have a cheap eBay hydraulic bender that came with a set of cast formers. You can get the formers separately or about £10 less than for the complete tool (so might as well buy the tool or the "free" hydraulic cylinder.
But there is no 1 3/8 former in there.
It is possible that you have under-estimated the wall thickness of the part on the other lorry. Thick-wall tube is far easier to bend without buckling. Get some 1 3/8 solid copper bar and drill a 1/2" hole down the middle :-)
Come on then pal...
Show me how your going to bend a 1 3/8 copper tube with a 'spring'....
Lol...lol...
Sometimes fella...🤔
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1 hour ago, Barney said:
Steve,
You have got the right idea except that the wooden formers are not strong enough to contain the sideways expansion of the tube, they need to be made in steel with a groove that is about 1/4" deeper than half the diameter of the tube. The former needs to be a good tight fit on the tube.
Hope this helps. John
If he clamped them wood formers in a vice so the sides were in the vice Jaws...then they would be...
Steve:
Fill the tube either with sand...
or water and freeze it....
That will prevent the tube walls from collapsing..
Personally I'd fill it with water and freeze it...
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13 hours ago, andypugh said:
;-) Your monkey is getting good results.
Ice seems like a poor choice for hot bending.
I have an eBay hydraulic bender. It can't do exhaust pipe tube, it just collapses.
For exhausts you need internal support. I have tried sugar, with no success (the internet claims success)
Commercial exhaust benders use internal balls to keep the tube round. Its clever and too complex to put in this margin.
Why bend it hot...?
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On 07/01/2018 at 5:16 PM, BenHawkins said:
I bought a bent piece of pipe to make the exhaust but when looking at the run over Christmas realised it needed an additional bend. I heated it up and added the bend in approximately the right place. Unfortunately I buckled it slightly and also tore a small hole in the outer edge of the bend. I might continue to fit this and then make a drawing of it to get another one made properly!
The way to have done that Ben would've been to fill the pipe with water...freeze it...then bend it...
The frozen ice plug would've prevented he tube from distorting and rippling etc...
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20 hours ago, Old Bill said:
Thanks Glen. All useful stuff.
We have been outside again today between visitors. Progress is slow but we have done a bit more. We started on fitting the body cross-members. Two of them have 1" bolts right through to hold them down into the mount castings and this was a bit of a challenge. I started by7 using my adjustable drill bit to cut the counterbore in the top for the end of the bolt.
Then I used 28mm bit in the battery screwdriver to drill half way through wauth Father watching to keep me vertical.
Turn it over and back from the other side.
Not quite in line but good enough.
A trial fit showed that I had got my castings too tight.
So I made a cut-out to allow it to fit.
This took a few goes to get right but all was well in the end.
I poked a reamer up from underneath just to clear the hole.
Father had previously made the 1" bolts so we fitted them and trimmed them to length.
Then it was on to the centre cross-member which was also too thick so I cut some more out of there.
After about six goes at it, all was well and the beam was installed.
Dad took the opportunity to drill the bolt holes in the water suction elbow so that can be fitted now as well. It gives me the position of the end of the elbow to the pump so that can be finished of too.
More guests tomorrow but we hope to be able to fit the last cross-member during the day. This was going to be an easy job but it has been a real pain!
Steve
Better making the wood to fit the casting in my book...
Face it steve:
It's either fettling the wood or packers...i know which one I'd have aimed for...
They would have done the same at Thornycrofts no doubt...
Keep at it...
Maybe next year it'll make shuttleworth...my mate will be back with his albions so no doubt I'll turn up to 'inspect' the finished J...
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On 05/12/2017 at 10:17 PM, Old Bill said:
Still preparing for the Christmas push, Dad has drilled out the body mount castings to match the holes in the chassis.
A trial fit of the first one and it looked good so he carried on and did the rest.
The fun then started with the front and rear ones as they have a hole through for a 1" bolt. Dad's biggest chucks are half-inch which made the job look tricky until I realised that we could use a 'blacksmith's bit' which has a half inch shank for all sizes of drill. A visit to my local Toolstation provided a 15 and a 25mm bit so we put the 15 through first and follwed up with the 25, finally finishing off with a hand reamer of 1".
It was all fun and games as the mill was set to maximum height and the quill would not drop low enough to do the hole on the other side. Once the first one was through, we had to lower the head to allow the drill to reach right through!
It all worked in the end and the castings are now in the paint shop.
Still lots to do!
Steve
Another way of pushing larger diameter holes with a modest machine would be using a rotabroach...
They cut out a slug...(on the radius)...rather than taking out the whole CSA
One of my antique steam powered radial drills has a brass rating plate on it that states:
5" drill at 36RPM
You can't even get a 5" drill now...
Dia's that size are rotabroach and flycutter work nowadays...
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On 24/12/2017 at 9:35 AM, Old Bill said:
Still pressing on with preparations for the body build, Adrian has kindly cut these out for me with his water jet machine. They are the corner braces for the front of the body, the hoop bases and the tow hook protector plate for the tailboard.
He even put the screw holes in so the first job was to countersink them.
The corner plates have a 90° bend in them so I have made a bending attachment for the press.
Something is not quite right with the geometry of it as I can't get very crisp bends but these parts will be fine.
Then on to the hoop bases. These have two 90° bends at 90° to each other.
To try to tighten the bend, I pushed them hard into the bottom of the vee but this caused an over-bend.
I rectified this by pushing a piece of round into the bend to ease it back. This worked OK but I need to refine the press some more.
The second bend was a bit trickier as my tooling is not robust enough to bend away from the centre line of the ram. I took the blade out of the ram, moved it to one side and pressed on the top of it with the ram flat face. It was a bit of a lash-up and took some setting up to get it all aligned but it did work.
Two bases of each hand:
Two coats of Bondaprime all over and we are ready to go.
Getting exciting now!
Steve
A quick one on using brake presses and folders Steve:
If there's a slight overbending of sheet then it's not too much of an issue...
Think about what's happening when you put a return on sheet/plate:
Your STRETCHING the outer edge of the return...and SHRINKING the inner edge...
And as it's considerably easier to stretch...rather than shrink metals then by taking your return just over the required angle....it'll always want to pull back a little to where you need it...🙂
Incidentally:
When putting long returns on heavier stuff (1/4" upwards)... what you'll often find is...say you get the return at 90* at the ends...it'll often be under towards the middle...what we used to do was take it to a point where we achieved a 90* return across the middle section...this meant the ends were often over...say 93*-94*...then we'd flip the folded plate over on some trestles...copper hammer and you can bring back the ends cold to 90* by planishing with the copper hammer...
Don't forget that once a material has been worked it'll want to relax a little...with a bit of know how you can use this to your advantage...😉
Kind regards
Glenn
GLMelectrical
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On 06/12/2017 at 3:37 PM, Ashcollection said:
Yes it sure has! and I think I can Now Confirm that we are all agreed that we like and dislike Guy Martin, Like and Dislike the replica Tank, think that machines and systems are safer in the old days before health and safety and are safer today, we need more and less people in engineering and are pro and anti Europe, want to get rid of people who use their money to push technology forward and also want to keep them. I'm Glad that's all now settled, better close this thread off before it gets out of hand!
And get rid of people who use their money to push their agendas...even in defiance of a public instruction....
I'd launch em all off the cliffs of Dover...
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On 06/12/2017 at 12:57 PM, Ashcollection said:
so fire someone who pushes the boundaries of engineering into the sun? don't we need that sort of person and their money? and if you voted out ,you voted for our legal system to therefore be stronger so what did you think would happen haha so Gina Miller etc can have their say as much as they like, it's called democracy and what lots of people have fought and died for.
When did I say Gina Miller couldn't have her say...?
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On 06/12/2017 at 2:06 PM, john1950 said:
We are going a long way off topic, steady on. As far as I know it is bad form to shoot the messenger. I have moved from the its rubbish camp, to at least they were successful in achiving an end product that is representative. They made an Item that is creating its own history it now has a pedigree and got people involved not just in engineering but other strands
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On 22/11/2017 at 12:59 PM, Ashcollection said:
this thread is getting funny. common sense does prevail 99% of the time, but when you have 100 litigation lawyers watching you like a hawk it tends to put off most officials. Seen it happen. get over it and move on. Again I'll point to a sketch in Hitchhikers guide to the galaxy where they put all the middle management and they like on a space ship and send them into the sun every few years, unfortunately we don't have the technology to do that yet, but the likes of Richard Branson and Elon Musk and a few others are working on that at the moment. and a question to all those who know how mechanical things work and can do the calculations. Regarding tanks in confined places, If the tank is 30ft long in a 20ft wide street with people between the walls and the tank both sides 2 deep shoulder to shoulder, if the tank spun on the spot due to a gearbox or steering failure how many people would you squish? however unlikely I'm sure that would have been something that was considered.
I vote Branson to be the first to try out his invention...together with all his remoaning pals...
He can take that cow Gina Miller with him...
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1 hour ago, Ashcollection said:
Spot on Adrian, I think people are getting confused with the real world and TV world, done both, both are good but very different. reminds me of a line from the Simson's years ago. Homer asked why a stage hand was painting patches on a horse, "so it looks like a cow on screen" "what happens when you need a horse? We tape a load of cats together" and on an earlier rant in this thread, Fred bless him is no longer with us, he was any Engineers hero, Guy Martin isn't Fred but if he sparks an interest in engineering to only 1 child growing up then he's matched Fred. and will be someone's hero as well. Health and safety is here to stay, we could go back to the old day of exploding boilers and trucks with no brakes mowing people down and asbestos everywhere. The world has changed, preserve the past and then move with it, work with it, round it, under it what ever it takes to get the job done. or get off haha. I thought it was an excellent program, showed 3d and VR very well and a snapshot of how it is used in engineering, a huge amount of ingenuity will have gone into making that tank look right using modern skills. and I think taking it to Cambrai and naming it Debora 2 was more fitting than a drive in Lincoln. that's my rant over.
In regards health n safety
We could go back to the days of common sense as well
Where people were schooled properly...thought about what they were going to do before doing it and took responsibility for themselves and considered how their actions might effect others...
We see emptyheads everywhere now:
At work...
Driving along on the roads...
on the TV & radio...
in positions of influence & power...
In decision making...
I'm sick of em all I'll tell you...
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1 hour ago, Ashcollection said:
Spot on Adrian, I think people are getting confused with the real world and TV world, done both, both are good but very different. reminds me of a line from the Simson's years ago. Homer asked why a stage hand was painting patches on a horse, "so it looks like a cow on screen" "what happens when you need a horse? We tape a load of cats together" and on an earlier rant in this thread, Fred bless him is no longer with us, he was any Engineers hero, Guy Martin isn't Fred but if he sparks an interest in engineering to only 1 child growing up then he's matched Fred. and will be someone's hero as well. Health and safety is here to stay, we could go back to the old day of exploding boilers and trucks with no brakes mowing people down and asbestos everywhere. The world has changed, preserve the past and then move with it, work with it, round it, under it what ever it takes to get the job done. or get off haha. I thought it was an excellent program, showed 3d and VR very well and a snapshot of how it is used in engineering, a huge amount of ingenuity will have gone into making that tank look right using modern skills. and I think taking it to Cambrai and naming it Debora 2 was more fitting than a drive in Lincoln. that's my rant over.
I said guy Martin needed to stop attempting to be Fred...and get his own act
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How about an A7V next...
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On 08/11/2017 at 5:01 PM, andypugh said:
Braze repairs are quite common with cast-iron parts, which is why I suggested silver-solder.
I don't think that the following is the solution here, but I have also had good results repairing the arm of a mechanical hacksaw using stainless-steel MIG wire. The reason to use stainless is that it won't turn into a super-hard martensite due to carbon migration from the cast iron. I guess that bronze MIG wire might be even better.
It's the grade though
216 and 218 are I think supposed to be a good one
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On 19/11/2017 at 10:20 AM, Old Bill said:
Thanks for that Barry. I hadn't heard of that software so I must give it a try. Always something new to learn!
The bonnet is on order but we won't see it until the Spring now. In the mean time, Dad has made up the bonnet catches. They are a slightly odd arrangement as the pegs are mounted on curved brass strips. These do give a handhold for lifting the bonnet but are really too small as I can only just get two ungloved fingers behind them. Never mind. That is how Thornycrofts did it!
Dad curved the strips by putting them through our small bench rollers until they matched his template.
They were then clamped in the jig and the ends bent over to match.
The rivet holes were drilled.
The pegs were turned up and silver soldered in place before cleaning up and a final polish.
They have since been painted green, as per prototype!
Steve
Your producing good work Steve...
Carry on
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On 02/10/2017 at 9:41 PM, Old Bill said:
Nice to see the progress Dan.
I think Andy is right about the con rods and I would be very wary of using cast ones. With your kit and skills, it would be nothing to carve them out of the solid and they would give me a lot more confidence. Now, we need Mr Pugh's advice on material specification. I would suggest a low alloy steel like En 24 to quote a standard which went obsolete fifty years ago.
The wooden rod is an excellent idea to confirm clearances.
Good luck with it all!
Steve
If your going to machine em from billet then you might as well forge the blanks first...
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On 11/11/2017 at 8:54 AM, Old Bill said:
Thanks Smiffy. You are very kind but my patterns can only be classed as 'adequate'. I get what I want but I use far too much metal and they are not very robust. To see some real works of art, have a look at Tharper's patterns elsewhere on this forum. They are gorgeous!
We now have 25 patterns completed and five left to do. One of those is for the propshaft spider.
As you can see, this is a cussing awkward shape and would certainly test my wood-turning skills. Fortunately, Barry came to the rescue and very kindly offered to 3-d print the pattern for us on his amazing machine, an offer we accepted with alacrity!
The very thin structure in the middle is temporary to support a horizontal face which is not on the base as the machine cannot lay down the fibres in mid air! They are broken off on completion.
The model is not solid but has a honeycomb structure internally.
Bingo! And there you have it! The boss on the end is a core print as it would be a waste to have to machine a 3" hole through the centre.
The foundry told us last time that a good surface finish is essential to get the sand to release. Printed objects have a natural surface finish rather like an old 78 record and the sand can get a really good grip of it. I could see this when the silencer end patterns came back as where I had not painted the outsides of the core boxes, there were still lumps of sand attached. On Barry's recommendation, I applied two coats of 'Patterncoat' epoxy paint and rubbed back well after each. A horrible job but the surface is now very smooth.
Today I am making the core box to go with it. Then that will be number 26!
Many thanks Barry!
Steve
I'm sorry steve but I'd be forging that mate...
Cut out the wastes afterwards with the bottles...
Cold chisel to knock off any fluff...
Die grinder to brighten it up...
(if your burning gear is set rite)...
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4 hours ago, ploughman said:
Is it possible to weld thin cast iron sheet?
I have an old railway stove and the side sheets are about 1/8th inch and cracked.
It is not the normal rounded version but more square.
Iron welds beautifully...but there's rules to abide by
For a start it's difficult to know what grade of iron you have...particularly with older items...or items from minor foundries and obscure manufacturers that often just threw any old crap into the cupola...
Secondly the long term effects of hot & cold...hot & cold effects iron on the molecular level...this can make it difficult to weld with an argon set...
Thirdly is the issue of thermoshock... Iron generally only allows for about 5% movement during heating & cooling...which can manifest itself with cracking on large surfaces...
In your case a good move would be to prep the area to be welded first by identifying points where cracks end...and drilling at a point just beyond (this prevents the crack from creeping)...a narrow Vee prep to cracks (both sides)...and the usual support during welding...
You need a DC stick welder and a pack of 2.5mm nickel rods...
Go DC electrode negative for welding the root...and then put the welding plant into DC electrode positive for capping the root weld...
You'll need a bucket large enough to put the welded part in...and some kiln dried sand...
If you have access to a coke forge you can get an even pre-heat on the part to be welded...and also give it a post-heat after welding before chucking it in the bucket and covering it with the dry sand...
An alternative to covering it in sand would be to keep it in the forge and gradually reduce the heat over a given time...
Or tell her indoors you've allocated her £100 pocket money allowance to go buy herself summat fancy with...once she's out of sight you can use the oven in her kitchen to gradually pre then post heat the casting...
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49 minutes ago, 11th Armoured said:
Not at all, I just can't abide misinformation being presented as fact, especially in the present 'post-truth' world.
I sifts through it...
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3 minutes ago, 11th Armoured said:
No, I don't.
I do however know a few people who do, and surprisingly they're just normal folks doing their best to get by under very trying circumstances, rather than some new incarnation of either the Gestapo or the Anti-Christ as some would appear to suggest...
I also work alongside construction and demolition companies, and have worked on & off in Lincoln for 30 years, so I like to think I know a bit about manoeuvering heavy machinery in & out of congested sites in the middle of this particular town centre - more than Channel 4 & some others seem to, at least.
I also saw Guy Martin & his assorted bunch of whatever-the-hell-they-were mooching about town at the last minute trying to work out if they could actually fit a bloody great big tank down the street after all - they obviously decided they couldn't, but of course it's better if they make out that it's all the council's or 'Elf & Safety's' fault, eh?
As you originally said, "everything is possible" - it's just that some things are so bloody stupid that you'd have to be an attention-seeking fool to consider them in the first place (in my most humble opinion, of course...). I'm reminded that this is the same fella whose 'world record attempt' in a human-powered hydrofoil on Lincoln's Brayford Pool was curtailed because he hadn't considered that the weeds might foul his pedalo... And he wants to drive a Tank through crowds of shoppers?I don't have Guy Martin down as anything other than a passenger...he rides the back of the late great Mr. Dibnah...rather than getting his own act...
In regards to my question as to if you worked for a local authority...you seemed defensive...i thought it was a familiar old pattern developing...
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7 minutes ago, daleheywoodtanks said:
I just wanted to quote the third sentence.
I felt it was a very accurate description of our 'betters' ?
Well said
Hmm ta...
WW1 Thornycroft restoration
in Pre WW2 vehicles
Posted
I know how these springs work...
They're also a flat profile...