Adam Elsdon

Apologies Croc! Re-listed it to mention the location in the title.

16th and 17th May 2009

A few of us have been down and had a chat with Allan the show organiser, and we Military Vehicle owner types have been given quite a sizeable allocation of the show area, for those who have been previously, the wooded area site will be three times bigger with better road access, there will be an offroad demo course for those who would like to try out their vehicles and put on a show for the public. There is a large area near the offroad course at the bottom of the field so those big trucks tanks and wreckers can do demos and strut their stuff, plenty of room for those who like to display a vehicle in motion.

The wooded site lends itself as the perfect "Static display area" and gives an authentic backdrop for your vehicle, and we are looking at putting in a trench and gun pit/sangar for the public to experience.

Camping is free and our own barbecue will be on the Saturday night.

They are very keen to attract/promote Military Vehicles as part of the show and are pulling out all the stops for us, so if you are up in these parts or would like to attend this up and coming show here are all of the contact details:-

For entry forms (Free) or site specific enquiries

BA Country Store, Broomhill, Lyne of Skene, Westhill, Aberdeenshire AB32 7DA. Tel: 01330 860840

Website www.bavintageweekend.co.uk (If its not working it will soon be resolved!)

For a contact within the Scottish Military Vehicle Group, go to the website, (Its quite good!) and have a look under contacts, ALO North, Mike Ogston is the chap co-ordinating club events and has his ear to what is going on with organisation at BA Stores:-

http://www.scottishmvg.org/1.html

:thumbsup:

Looks good, and may i congratulate you on your fantastic choice of vehicle! hopefully everything will be working as advertised when you get it hooked up to some batteries.

What an absolute bargain by the way, a massive amount of interesting vehicle for not a huge outlay :thumbsup:

Back on topic.

do the members think suitably equiped internally it would meet the criteria.cheers cw.

That is brilliant!

Does it stop ok or does it use airbrakes :rofl:

Adam,

 

I think that is more to do with high perfomance engines. In our subject, ie military vehicles, I can think of different applications using the same engine but having exhaust systems of vastly differing lengths. Of course the silencer can be "adjusted" to compensate for a longer or shorter pipe length.

I did used to spend alot of time making cars going faster, maybe there is potential for tuning a B60 yet!

Thinking about the weight difference between a Humber GS & a Pig Mk 2. The standards are the same emphasising that braking efficiency measurement is all about speed & distance. Modern documents were no help but looking in Manual of Driving & Maintenance for Mechanical Vehicles (Wheeled) 1937, I found this, which matches up to the Humber Standards exactly:

 

 

Of course one always has to remember "thinking distance"!

Thats a top piece of information to know Clive, infact, its one of the most useful things posted in a while, as it applies to any vehicle :thumbsup:

Exhausts are tuned to length, each time the cylinder discharges into the exhaust system it creates a pulse of X amount of gas, which fills a length of the exhaust system, usually a number of these pulses are required to fill the exhaust, (which is where the tuning length comes to play) but they also draw out the exhaust gases from the cylinders, the gas pulses racing down the exhaust cause a vacuum scavenging the exhaust gases from the cylinder, helping to clear it and allowing space for a fresh full intake to be drawn in for the next cycle. I think a slight restriction usually provided by the silencer helps to compress the gases slightly, so when they get past the silencer they speed up, again helping with the extraction of gases.

I'm sure there is a better explanation but thats the way i understand it works!

Re the poll,

Does "as it would be in battle" mean a Sherman should be "brewing up" and what would H&S think of this?

:rofl:

I didnt post the poll myself, but that was the kind of image that sprung to my mind, only my version was:- A vehicle that had hit a landmine or a field ambulance awash with blood and gore.

I'm not to sure but presenting a vehicle in such a manner may receive adverse comment and may gain less judging marks from the rivet counters!

On the flip side of that, daily usage could also be a range target!

Catweazle, you are quite right of course, there is enough buear..bearacrey..beaurac.....bugger it, red tape without creating anymore, John, go forth with your hypothetical half track on a beaver tail thingy using Mobile Project Vehicles.....enjoy!

do not rember the exact words, but on the lines that I implied that you were an idiot. Dont need to you are doing a great job on your own

Just came back to have a look at this thread, what on earth is this descending into?

Please somebody, do this thread a favour and lock it out.

Post back how you get on with it, like ive said i had good results with it, but its always worth knowing how others get on with stuff like this!

Now off to siphon the heating oil tank!:cool2:

Excellent, keep the info and pictures coming!

Barra, the U/L C G badge on each side above the wheel arches stands for unloaded Centre of Gravity, it is the point the trailer balances with nothing in it.

Does anybody think that restorations and the way the final vehicle looks is driven by money.......let me explain, with a fictional example.......

You have come across an original untouched VW Schwimwagen, its a bit of a mess, and it costs you a reasonable sum of money to purchase it.

If you fully restore it with all the bells and whistles to a high standard you know that a collector will pay good money for it, or do you do a rolling restoration getting it up to an acceptable condition with a well used look. I for one dont think most owners would run it as a rolling resto, because of the money involved, and the resultant costly restoration makes it look brash/lifeless, it lands up been sold and becoming a garage queen.

Another not so fictional example to ponder!: Somebody goes out puts on the rose tinted specs and arrives home with a Humber Pig, because it was interesting, low production numbers making it a bit of a rarity and mainly because it was cheap!

Over a period of time, as a rolling resto it is repaired on a bit of a shoestring, attending shows throughout the season and serviced as its used, eventually getting to a good serviceable condition but used without worrying about every scratch.

Now i am in no way knocking how somebody looks after vehicle and how they use them, it is entirely up to the individual, but i prefer talking to the collector who knows the vehicle inside out, knows how it was used and how to drive it in the same manner, it justs adds to the character of the vehicle>

That compression is very low! modern petrol probably gets in the cylinder, goes bang instantaneously and then doesnt produce any slow burn power for the rest of the stroke that lower octane fuel would provide, just heats up the cylinder until it eventually get pushed out of the exhaust. Im still going with the Octane thing being the problem!

 

She is getting a huge amount of work soon. I decided I dont think I can part with her.. she is part of me now! and is just about to go for a full overhaul.

 

 

They are good at making you feel bad about abusing them! lovely old things!!

The following is the Petrol octane ratings prior to WW2:-

Petrol - Commercial 68 octane (Pool Petrol), No. 1 grade 75 octane and top grade 80 octane.

Modern unleaded is around the 96 octane mark, even higher for the premium grades around 105 octane, so modern fuel is nothing like the stuff designed for vehicles of yore.

Here is an excerpt from the Ferguson tractor guys, they used to use a mix called TVO (Tractor Vapourising Oil) no longer available for sale, but it has alot of applications in other older vehicles:-

"There must only ever be 2 ingredients in TVO

1. Petrol (unleaded is absolutely fine for a Ferguson tractor) 98 Octane.

2. 28 Second Heating Oil 20 Octane.

Aim for an Octane value between 55 and 70.

55 if doing very hard work

70 if doing topping and the like

To give you some idea of the sums:-

1 part petrol and 1 part heating oil comes out at 59 Octane.

2 parts petrol and 1 part heating oil comes out at 72 Octane.

1 part petrol and 2 parts heating oil comes out at 46 Octane.

Petrol on its own is suitable for road runs (with the heat shield removed).

Octane is not the only factor, but it provides a good guide.

Diesel fuel is designed to cause ignition by compression and will encourage pinking. It is not designed to burn in TVO tractors, and no upper cylinder lubricant is required in these tractors, so do not use anything other than petrol and heating oil.

Using fuel which does not burn completely will destroy the lubricating properties of the oil and that (in a Ferguson TE tractor) will result in wear to the cam shaft bushes and then loss of oil pressure from cam shaft bushes. Loss of oil pressure will, then result in damage to the crank shaft."

Its referring to a tractor, but its a low compression version of the Standard Triumph car engine that it is using.

I have tried it in my Humber, making a mix equating to approx 72 octane, and it ran very nice and smooth, (Smells like a tilley lamp!) this is the equivalent to the old 2 star, and close to the Pool petrol that the B series range of engines was designed to run on.

Croc has a theory that the poor running of numerous Petrol Meadows engines in Scammell Explorers is purely down to modern fuel octane causing vapour locks and atomising/evaporating faster due to the higher spirit in the distillation, i am inclined to agree.

It would be prudent to point out that the Customs and Excise dont like you adding non-taxed for the road fuel additives to existing Pump petrol and diesel, and that all tests carried out by myself were at a standstill in my back yard nowhere near a road or anywhere else for a matter of fact....who are you, what you on about, i dont know you do i.......

Welcome, dont worry about not having a vehicle, and especially dont worry about not having a Dodge or a Jeep or a Ward La France, there are better things to be doing than tying yourself to an old american slapper!

A younger british model should do you nicely :-D

I reckon there is an option missing, "how the vehicle has been used for the majority of its' existance" much as I like, for example, Matador gun tractors I have a soft spot for timber cranes. I don't see why everything has to go back to military colours Dave Weedons Rotti looks great in Sunters livery and I know of a Diamond T in a shed, that hasn't been out for some time, that looks good as a civvy wrecker, it would be a shame to paint it drab again.

People are forever wanting to know what the "correct" paint is for whatever vehicle they have got. It doesn't matter, paint your vehicle how you like, it isn't a "military vehicle" anymore.

That Diamond T does have some nice hand applied striping.....and a large hydraulic winch!

My point is that some people may be trying to find an alternative to passing the HGV medical, and going for MPV vehicle may be for that reason. Are you suggesting that if someone can't pass an HGV medical, that trying to find a way round it by stretching the definition of MPV to more than was intended, and thus gaining permission to drive a MV most of us recognise needs an HGV to drive is a good idea?

Im with Antarmike on this, why would you try and avoid proper training and a medical, i for one wouldnt be happy about somebody who only drives a big MV a few times a year, on a tenuous loophole driving anywhere near my family or friends, i think a certain personal responsibility and common sense comes into play here, instead of trying to find every way out of doing it properly.

There was some points above about the "Experts" comments on stuff, some of these are way off mark, and probably stem from only referring to restored examples as opposed to original items.

Anybody feel that magazines/books in some cases are responsible for the way vehicles are presented, i would rather see one original photo of a vehicle in service than ten restored examples.

I think there is a case for heavily restored items, rare stuff that has been rescued from a wreck, you wouldnt want to keep going back and repeatedly sorting it, do it up to a high standard and letting it mellow gracefully.

Then you do get the other side of the coin, a nice serviceable aged example of a vehicle, lands up getting stripped and rebuilt, to my mind destroying the very essence of what it was.

Nice to see someone has attached a poll, can only make for interesting opinion within the MV scene.

I have had a few discussions with people over a period of time regarding the levels of preservation/presentation of military vehicles that you see at shows or used as examples in magazines and books.

Mine (and a few others) personal preference is a vehicle that looks like it has seen a bit of use, has the equipment it carried as required for the job and not by the book, i.e. imagine picking up a Snatch land rover from Afghanistan and plonking it down at a show.

Now then, would it win awards, would it become the celebration of books and magazines? after all its dirty, battered doesnt have its full C.E.S. its stickers are in the wrong place according to army directives and the end user field modifications definitely dont appear in army publications. Probably not.

I used the Afghanistan example above as its recent in the news and everyone has seen them.

Now for example take a Jeep/bedford/etc, used by the British in holland WW2 its been battling its way across europe, spares and everything else is hard to come by, very doubtful it has all of the kit it should have, its a warhorse. Pick it up and drop it into a show now, i doubt it would get much of a look in.

What is the fascination with the over restored examples with every single nick nack and option attached, dont get me wrong, its individual taste, ownership etc but i look at stuff like that and switch off, there are whole books and magazine articles dedicated to a single marque only showing over restored vehicles, is that really the way to go with MV restoration......

I had a series 3 FFR with canvas roof which never leaked, slapped thompsons weather seal on it, top stuff, although my feet used to get wet from the water dripping in from the bulkhead!

In service we operated FFR's with hardtops, they probably had so much paint on them that the water never came in through the rivets. To insulate them, we went to barrack stores and picked up old carpet that had been taken out of married quarters, we cut it up and glued it inside the roof using contact adhesive (Id like to point out that dingey green carpet was easy to come by, although a couple of exotic orange ones went about!) we then went to great lengths carpeting the rear out with two layers of the same stuff, not only did it insulate, it also sound proofs the vehicle, helping to muffle radio sounds and to cover the sound of movement in the vehicle, accidently dropping a headset onto a floor with no carpet covering at night could quite easily give your position away.

I always like looking at pictures of restored FFR's thinking they look nothing like an operational version did!

On the 24v powerlite generators (Petrol), we were told to fill them until the oil was level with the bottom of the filler hole, im pretty sure that was OMD80 as well.

We used them to charge the batteries and power the radio kit in the FFR Land Rover's.

With all respect to the Pig, surley they could have got something better?

Would of thought it'd be ideal, cheap to buy, and a useful size compared to a Saracen sized vehicle, also they drive like a car, nothing complicated, so anyone can drive one after a bit of basic tuition, and its the same sort of size as a large van and very adaptable internally to different roles, not new, but still capable.

Lets face it, even if the engine/transmission gave them maintenance grief, it wouldnt be beyond a capable police garage to fit a different engine and box as a replacement, a good choice of vehicle......although i am biased!

I know of a barn with one of these in, complete with armour, i would say where, but then i would have to kill you!