Dave Jenner

4 hours ago, andym said:

Agreed!

Hi Richard how you doing.  I explained that also to the fellow that recently found and acquired his own Mk6...re the mineral oil. 

I am given to understand that one of the three of these I currently own is one the of former Skegness pair. As time goes by, I am less and less sure that I will be able to restore any of these, so if anyone is interested.....

I would be very interested to know more about your three vehicles and would very much like an opportunity to view them.

Hi You Salamander people might like to know these two are still about,the yellow one with me and the red one up north with its engine out.[ATTACH=CONFIG]101578[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]101579[/ATTACH] neither are currently for sale

Nice to see the ex Headcorn one still about. Is she still a runner?

Leah the owner of the vehicle was in touch through email with me yesterday and sent through these couple of pics. She has no interest in the vehicle in any way except wanting to get shot of it from her barn by selling it either as a whole, or bit by bit. Her emails are rather short, not very sweet and to the point! She apparently has a buyer for the engine, which I think will be a B81, and the gearbox. The gearbox could be a fully automatic one as the RCAF did not like the semi auto pre select box that came with the truck and had them upgraded. I cannot recall the other differences of the Canadian spec G19, there were a few and I think they are mentioned in Bill Munro's Alvis Saracen Family book.

There are few remaining Mk.6 versions in the UK, the Museum of RAF Fire Fighting having, I believe, the last remaining running version and the first one off the production line. But this Canadian version is probably quite unique and probably the last of it's kind.

Dave, you are referring to the posts from May 2014, about 2/3 way down the page, I presume.

 

The owner, Leah, found this forum at around the same time:

 

http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?44556-1958-Alvis&highlight=salamander

Thanks Sean, I was not aware that had been posted. I am more than a little surprised to be reading that it's a runner!

It's sad to think what might become of it. It's quite probably the very last of it's kind, being the Canadian variant that was a fair bit different to the one built by Pyrene for the RAF.

If Leah made a little bit more of an effort he might get somewhere!

I don't know if any of you might have seen and read this post. It would seem that it is possible that a G19 as it was designated, could be currently rotting away in a barn in Canada.

I first saw the post almost a year ago and tried to get a dialogue going with the person Leah, but it dried up when I was asking about providing more details and a photograph.

http://www.fire-engine-photos.com/picture/number2343.asp?c=46701

As you will see from reading the thread, the current owner is likely to get shot of it at any time. I have no idea if it is what the thread suggests, possibly the Canadian variant of the Alvis Salamander of which I believe only about 15 or so were ever built.

If it were somewhere here in the UK I'm sure it would have been seen by now, quite how this may be accommodated in whats being suggested is a remote part of Canada I really have not a clue!

Any idea's gentlemen?

Regards Dave

Chris/Dave

If of any help I can transport the parts, Chris will you be going to the Dambuster's at Thorpe camp? or can you pass them on to somebody that is? or if you are going to the War & Peace show you could pass them over to Steve / John at the fire section to take home to RAF Scampton.

 

Gerald member of Thorpe camp radio group & Radio instructor 17 (Coningsby) Sqn ATC

Chris and Gerald...Chris, I'm so sorry for not replying to your post, for some reason I missed it and only just noticed it when Gerald messaged me about transport. I'm very pleased to be able to tell you that I received a Pye Cambridge just today. It came from an RAF vet after I put a post on the facebook page RAF Mates Where are they now! It's a complete set and in pretty good nick. Apparently it was last used in a taxi!

Thanks again to both of you, Dave

Thanks Iain and Clive for both your replies, it gives me at least a bit of hope that something may turn up if I keep looking about! Cheers Dave

For a vehicle at the Museum of RAF Fire Fighting at Scampton, I'm hoping I may be able to track down a Pye Vanguard Radio. They were extensively used in the RAF from about the late 60's through to the 70's until replaced by the Storno sets. The only difference between the ones in service and the pic here, was we had a telephone style handset with a transmit button on the back as opposed to the mic pictured here.

If anyone has any idea where I might lay my hands o one I would be very pleased to hear. Cheers Dave

Hi again

After some info again please current or former owners of any of the above.

Our Salamander is not riding at the correct height as we run her with the water and foam tank empty. I don't particularly want to laden her up with almost 4 tons just to get the ride height correct.

Documentation I have suggests that the hull to ground clearance on a Salamander should be about 1' 1". Ours is currently more like 1' 5", this gives the appearance of excessive camber and too much wheel arch clearance. Basically does not look right! I'm also aware that this incorrect ride height creates more wear issues on the drive shafts.

My question is; by using the torsion bar adjusters, how much actual height adjustment is possible?

Second question, doing an oil change, what oil should be used in the B81? The book I have has OM110 or OMD75? Does anyone know the current MOD spec or what commercial oil I need to get hold of?

Cheers Dave

Being basically flat, solid discs, I would think that the easiest method would be to lightly blast them with soda or something followed by mechanical sanding/buffing.

I expect to see some photos when they are done, I've often wondered what my Saracen would look like with polished rims

Cheers Terry, It's very tempting to just paint ours black! But having found a photo of it in service from the early seventies with polished rims we've decided to use this as a template for restoration.

I've heard about soda blasting and have tracked a mobile firm down for a quote! Could be interesting!

Cheers Dave

Hi all

We're restoring the alloy split rims to the non-painted alloy look which is how they were during the last few years in service. Apart from hard graft, are there any tried and tested methods to make this job a little easier?

Cheers Dave

Thanks Richard and Wally, you have both confirmed what I thought was probably the problem, it's nice to have that second or third opinion though! Wally, yes I would be interested to know about how we might be able to alleviate the problem. Cheers Dave

Just another quick question aimed at all you B81 experts! Just some opinions sort please.

The engine is running pretty sweet now and all efforts on continuing the restoration work are on the body. I just happened to dip the oil yesterday and was surprised to see that it was very pale, a bit milky looking. Alarm bells of water in the oil sounded, so I took a small plate off from the plug side of the rocker box and stuck my fingers in. No nasty frothy stuff, still oil that looks a little milky but lots of water droplets on the top of the inside of the rocker cover that came out on my fingers.

I checked same on our other Salamander (MK6) and oil was also milky looking. The engine on this vehicle has not been run for over 12 years.

The hanger the vehicles are stored in is cold and quite damp so I'm wondering (and hoping) this is just a characteristic of that.

Once I've worked out the how! I'll be doing an oil change. It's a dry sump oil system by the way which I assume is common on Stalwart, Saladin and Saracen?

Cheers Dave

would not really help if your points are bad...cheap new dizzys are about for 50 quid and that may be a cheaper quicker option...they usually just bolt in already set up...

 

has anyone ever tried advancing the ignition a tad to allow for the modern fuel, I know the b61 fires at or just past top dead normally but has anyone tried a bit of advance over norm...

Thanks for this, I have another dizzy to play around with and perhaps fit with new points at a later date. There was also a problem with the carb having muck in it, probably drawn up when I had the petrol tank out to get to the brake cylinder. Running sweet again...for now! Cheers Dave

Thanks to all for all the tips and advice; if the vehicle were my own I would give serious thought to the electronic ignition. I've checked prices and it's currently coming in at £260. This is just one of many vehicles at the museum and I'm not going to be able to spend this, at least not just now. It's going to have to be plugs and points for now. Would there be any mileage in removing the plug lead shielding gaining some HT spark, and fitting standard caps and plugs that I could gap at 25 thou? Dave

Go for the electronic conversion as once set there is no more stuffing around.

If you are carefull all wiring for the electronic conversion can be hidden inside the original metal conduit and housings making the conversion undetectable.

I used normal BP5ES W8DC N9YC protruded nose sparkplugs as they are self cleaning and cheap.

I did away with the ignition lead shielding as it takes much energy from the spark thrown at the plugs.

I use the old leads and fittings with electrical shrink wrap to keep things water tight as possible.

I now run 25 thou spark gaps with out trouble.

 

I now have a stalwart that doesn't back fire and never needs its plugs out to be cleaned , even if the motor gets a bit fuelled up.

It starts first time every time straight away without any choke.

Thanks for the info, I like the look of your set up and it sounds as if you have had great results. Our vehicle only does short runs, often not getting up to temp so is very prone to suffering dirty plugs so your set up sounds ideal. I've requested a price on the mod from Classicheads. It could work out more cost effective in the long run. Cheers Dave

Terry,

The carby does have two mixture screws on it for each venturi.

 

I have had a lot of experience with B range engines and would advise Dave to check both contact sets are clean and adjusted correctly and equally. Also change the condenser.

 

Richard

Hi Richard

I've found an item on 'Doug's Heavy Metal' on setting up the points using a self made 45 degree quadrant on the rotor spindle and a timing light. Would you advocate this method or an alternative? Alf at the museum has experience setting up these twin point distributors on other vehicles, is the process pretty generic or are there special considerations on the B80/81?

Cheers Dave

Tuning the B series engines is pretty basic, in that the carburettor does not have many adjustment points. The most likely cause of a flat spot is that the accelerator pump diaphrams have gone and need to be replaced. That is also the case on my Saracen, but I've not yet found a source for them.

 

A lot of the time, ignition problems will look like a tuning issue, especially given the fact that you're dealing with two sets of points. I would strongly recommend fitting an electronic ignition module; Clive has written a very good article about it:

http://hmvf.co.uk/pdf/IGNITIONMATTERS.pdf

 

With an engine that has been sitting for a long time, it may be worth doing a compression test. I understand that the B series can be rather prone to sticking exhaust valves.

 

I have a B series engine manual and tuning informaiton for them. If you send me your email address, I can pass them on.

 

Cheers,

Terry

Hi Terry, thanks for your reply, will pm you my email as I would appreciate any tuning info that you have. I am aware of the electronic ignition mod, thanks for that info as well which could be something to look at when our funds improve!

Regards Dave

Hi all

I'm after any help on offer for tuning up a B81 fitted in an Alvis Salamander (RAF Mk.6).

I've just finished sorting out the brakes, for the second time, and now need to get the engine running a little sweeter.

The only work I've done so far on the engine is to fit new exhaust, a re-placement re-furbished carb and clean the plugs which at the moment are those platinum tipped type, set at 15 thou. I have avoided even thinking about the twin contacts and distributor.

I've been told that a good starting point would be to get shot of the plugs and replace with RSN12Y, any suggestions on where to source these at the best price? When she was running last year there was never a 'backfire' so it could be that the points and timing are ok? I have no technical specs on the points and distributor so again, if anyone has any info on these I would welcome the input.

At present she starts well on full choke but once it's fully in the engine is sluggish to rev up from idle until about 1500rpm. There is the occasional flat spot and you get the impression that she is not always on all 8 cylinders. I'm hoping this is just a tune up problem and not due to any significant low compression.

Any tips, advice and especially any technical jargon on the distributor would be very gratefully appreciated.

Cheers Dave

DAVE l have just found this in amongst some of my files do you want a copy if so pm me with a postal address

Wally, this looks most interesting indeed, thanks for offer, have sent you my details, Dave

I think it was my own goof! :nut:

One of the piston seals I used last year in re-building the master cylinder was newly acquired and I now think it modern enough to be made from a synthetic material and not natural rubber as in original 1950/60 specs. This then reacted to the petroleum based OM11. Why do I think this? Well I now have the piston out of the cylinder and it's swollen by about 20% of it's original size!

Lesson learnt! (At least I hope so!)

Just as a thought - where did the master cylinder come from Dave? Original or replacement?? AFAIK all the FV6xx series used the OM10/11/13 oils for braking systems so is it possible you had the wrong seals in the cylinder?????

If it were the wrong oil I would have expected problems right through the system including the wheel pistons........

Hi Neil, thanks for that. The replacement cylinder originated from Alvis. It had been in storage with all the original wrapping on it before it was passed onto me. I'm hoping that just the MC has been affected, apart from the slowy worsening failure to return symptom, there was no sign of a problem with either the servo cylinder or any wheel cylinders. I'm hoping I might have had those start to stick and either lost braking effort or had binding brakes, which there was no sign of. So your saying that the OM11 should have been OK?

I don't know how much of the 'wrong type' of oil would be needed to destroy a seal. The vehicle had been without brakes for many years and when I first took the original cylinder out the seals were destroyed and oil had leaked into the boot. How much oil would it take to damage a seal? I wondering that if some wrong oil had previously been used to top up, whether some was still in the feed and was sufficient to cause damage.

Dave

Good morning all

I'm just after some idea's and opinions if possible.

The Alvis Salamander (RAF Mk6) I think I'm correct in saying, braking system differs from it's brothers the Saladin, Stalwart and Saracen, so I believe anyway! Although I think it may share some common components. The Salamander has a 2" lockheed master cylinder at the front end, in the engine bay a hydrovac brake servo and standard drum brakes and wheel cylinders set up.

The master cylinder was replaced just over a year ago. We had managed to 'procure' OM11 which is a high grade mineral oil and replaced OM13 in service (the recommended oil type) quite some time ago. All was well for almost 4 months and then the brake cylinder started to play up with the piston sticking in the cylinder. This progressively worsened until it appeared to stick completely. It was removed from the vehicle yesterday and the piston is stuck fast within the barrel.

It without doubt appears that a reaction to the oil has occurred causing one of the two cup seals on the piston to have broken down. One of these seals is a standard looking type rubber seal, the other is much stiffer and appears to be made from some fibrous compound. I cant actually tell which seal may have reacted as it's stuck fast!

In the RAF OM11 replaced OM13 and according to the data we saw did seem to suggest it was suitable, but I cannot think of any other reason for the cylinder to fail except for a reaction on one or both the seals from the oil.

If anyone has any thoughts, apart from "should have used OM13" :cool2: I would like to hear from you.

Cheers Dave

Hi Dave yes please use the pic . Thanks for the info . Some strange things went on with these trucks. They were the dread of MTSS ! The one that was at Barkston 26AG70 this belonged to the RAF & DFS association any idea where it is do you have it at Scampton now ? It and another were at their museum at Shoreham then they moved to Halfpenny Green then the trucks moved to Barkston.

 

I believe this is the one that contains the parts of 2 different trucks ??

 

Hi Wally love a copy of that video please

 

must go sick dog and sick wife so I am ic house today

regards TED

Hi Ted, yes it is indeed now at Scampton. It's correct serial number is FCT16 and the reg should be 23AG70. It was the Barkston one, the association have now given it to Steve Shirley. She is not in such good condition as 23AG56 and not a runner, or likely to be unless we win some grant! Just working on 56 is proving a challenge. I had the brakes working again last year, just to now have them pack up...my fault! Going to try again soon! Regards Dave