Alaskan

Opps... missed the part that he hasn't been on-line since 2009. Too bad, would love to get additional information on this vehicle.

Hello... the only pictures I have are the ones posted. Sorry. Best of luck in your project.

Rodney

Opps... missed the part that he hasn't been on-line since 2009. Too bad, would love to get additional information on this vehicle.

That is great! I am in the process of a complete upgrade of my Saracen to a diesel with an auto transmission. Bought a dumptruck and used the guts to upgrade my Saracen into something more reliable, with far more power.

I actually have a few pictures of the Judge Dredd Saracen (one of them) that was on display in the past. Love the front look of them.

Yours seems to be missing the front bumper though.

I had the same problem you are having with mine before I started the upgrade. Turned out to be a faulty condenser, which was a $2 part, but took 1k to diagnose (hence the upgrade).

I would love to have a few detailed pics of your front cowling and measurements so I could reproduce it. Is it hinged? removable? is the front vision block in place under the cowling, or was it removed?

Best of luck! thedials@gci.net

Rodney

More pictures

A few more pics... we are going to repaint everything anyway, so we had a little fun with a can of white paint.... HMS Botany Bay...lol

Hi guys... here are the latest pics.

The shell and chassis has been joined. Final height was about 9 feet 2 inches. The extra height allowed the larger engine to fit exactly right. The poor pics are from my cell phone, but will post better ones soon. I thought this was a monster before, but it is even more intimidating now... simply massive.

Our local shipyard wanted in on the project and is making custom deck plates for the inside.

More to follow...

Rodney

Good to have you back! Impressive progress! The centre set of wheels are not steerable?

Hi Montie... The center wheels are designed to track with the front, however to maximize the turning range we made them retractable. A push of a button in the cab lifts the tires up in about a second. This will actually allow the vehicle to make tighter turns than its origional configuration.

We are adding a few other upgrades as well and I hope to post more pictures in about a week. We are taking off about a week, but hope to get started again by the 11th.

Rodney

How much for those tyres?

Figure out what shipping to your location would be then make me an offer. I would be willing to sell them cheap to another Saracen owner. They are 95% plus tread... only 750 miles of use

My zip is 99901. I can get them to Seattle for about $200

Rodney

Hello all... It's been a while since I last posted but thought I would give everyone an update on how the Saracen upgrade is progressing. If you recall, we started the process of modernizing the engine and transmission (transfer case) of the my Mark VI Saracen in October.

Well, the engineering took longer than I anticipated. That plus my mechanic was down sick for several weeks so it has not gone quite as fast as I anticipated. Regardless, we are making progress and should be finished by the end of January.

We now have a nearly completed lower half consisting of a new DT466 diesel engine, Allison transmission, 16R20 run-flats, International frame, and air brakes. The center wheels are retractable (see attached picture) and allow tighter turns. We are a few work days away from mounting the shell to the frame.

When completed the vehicle will look nearly identical except that it will stand a little higher and come in at about 9' 6". I will post more pictures when completed. On a plus side, I was able to sell just about every spare part generated to other Saracen Owners. Still have six nice 12R20 run-flats if anyone is interested. thedials@gci.net

Rodney

Guys... I understand the nostalgia.... I share it. Making this bold of a change did tear at my heart, but our goal is to preserve the look of the vehicle, inside and out, and make a more usable machine. As I have said in previous posts, I have spent thousands on maintenance and leak issues for roughly 60 miles of use.

I have a truck in my driveway that gets used once every three months to take our garbage to the landfill. For the little it is used it has the most problems of any of my vehicles. Per my mechanic he says its because there is nothing more damaging for a vehicle than to let it sit and not be used.

I was to the point where I had to make a change with my vehicle or be content to look at it in the garage every few weeks. Driving it in its former condition was simply too difficult and expensive. Parts form the UK... shipped to Alaska, are expensive to put it mildly. I recently purchased a thermostat from Banisters for 120 pounds, which by the time shipping and taxes were factored in was nearly $200 dollars.

Some of the best LAVs in the US have gone through radical modifications to make them better. The Bradley is a prime example. We are just trying to make it better; there are enough original Saracens around for historical reasons.

Give us a chance to make these changes and let me know your thoughts when we finish in a few weeks.

If anyone is looking for hard to find parts... like accumlators, etc. let me know. thedials@gci.net

The body was cut from the base last night. Took two large bottles of gas and they reported that the welds on the torsion bars were made of some exotic metal that the torch would not cut. I can say they have a newfound respect for British steel.

A lift system was devised to raise the body involving large jacks and timbers. The weight was more than expected and the rear timber started breaking. They were able to lower it in time. As with all things of this nature... going a little slower than expected.

The lower box and wheel assemblies were removed as one piece... engine, gearbox, transfer case and all wheels intact and slid out from under the shell.

They are now preparing the International cab and will move that under the shell today or tomorrow (hopefully). I would have obtained better pictures last night but the timber problem stopped us.

Hi Montie...

No plans to sell. Very excited to stop by the shop each day and see the progress. I will try to get a few new pictures posted tomorrow.

You are right on the funds... it is costing me about $120 an hour for labor. My wife is going to kill me when she gets the bill. I'm pretty sure she thinks this will cost a thousand or two...lol.

Hi Alaskan, I have seen a lot of South African Saracens (and taken a lot of pictures, posted on this forum) and although a lot of their engine compartments weren't accesible, I have yet to come across a diesel version. Also, all are Saracen 88's and I have yet to come across a South African Saracen that is not an 88! Liking or not liking what you are doing, it sure takes a lot of guts and funds! Do you intend to selloff eventually?

For sure it would have been nice to keep the vehicle stock. However, I much rather have a hybrid vehicle that looks like a Saracen, but drives like a truck, than a stock Saracen that sit in my garage because it is not practical to drive.

I have spent six months trying to work out the bugs, but have broke down on the side of the road once, and had multiple leaks. My last leak fix cost a thousand dollars and lasted for 15 miles. This vehicle is a love affair for sure and our goal is to make it very hard to visually notice the difference when completed.

Just think, no more fluid flywheel... hydraulics...etc, easy to find tires, and parts I can obtain locally.

Besides, didn't a South African company upgrade many of these vehicles to diesels in the past?

so if i get this right it wont be a saracen anymore just a saracen body shell sitting on another chassis?

 

if I have this correct then doesnt that defeat the whole idea of owning a military vehicle?

 

could you not find a better sized engine and fit that if its more power your after?

 

sorry this is just IMO... but for the life of me cant see why you would want to do such a thing to a very pukka vehicle..

 

but hey each to there own...

The upgrade work has started on my Saracen and is moving along fast. The Saracen will be placed on a International 4700 Frame, with a DT466 diesel and auto trans. The engine and transmission are the same as used in some US LAVs that weight quite a bit more so we will have lots of power. We will install a drop axel on the vehicle to keep the same look.

Visually it will look the identical except it will ride a few inches higher. I will post more pictures on a regular basis.

Rodney

Right up my street,, 05 FF 50

Powerd by a jaguar 4.2 and auto box,

The engine is more powerfull being auto instant gear change and great speed. My saracen had a worn out 4th gear so i stripped the box just to leave the transfer( sold the b80 to John Pearson )i fitted a jaguar engine and box a small prop to join them both and it worked well. The only problem i had i used the car pas pump to power the steering and brakes.. it was not up for the job,, In the past i have also fitted a b series cummins to a stalwart STAL108.

I an now fitting a M.A.N 150 6cylinder diesel engine into my saladin,, in the next few weeks,, pop over and have a look if your intrested,,,

Thanks will do. I have purchased the new platform for my Saracen. A DT466 Diesel with Allison 5 sp. I will post pictures when work starts in a few weeks.

Hi Rodney,

 

I had such thoughts myself a while ago. I waa thinking along the lines of changing only the powerplant with a small block V8 or a diesel. it remained a pipedream, however.

 

On a different note, was the RPG mesh, Kremlin mesh or such, as was used on sarry's in Ireland any good? More info on this?

Hi Montie, I don't really know about the RPG mesh.

I met with one of our best local big-rig mechanics yesterday. He has been through my Saracen and is recommending mounting the hull to a International 4600 or 4700 platform with a DT466 Engine. We found a possible platform for $9k, and are working out the details now.

On the plus side this will upgrade the vehicle with an automatic trans, allow normal highway speeds and improve reliability considerably.

In the end I will probably spend $20k on this project, but I would have paid twice that the last time I broke down on the side of the road due to a faulty $2 dollar condenser...lol Now I just have to find a gift for my wife to bribe her.

Hello all...

I was wondering if anyone had any thoughs on upgrading a Saracen with a modern power plant and transmission. I would really love to have a modern, more powerful and more reliable engine and transmission to consistently move the vehicle along at about 45 mph even up moderate hills. As it is now, my uparmored beast struggles to go up moderate hills at speeds of more than 10mph or so.

I figured that I have two possible options:

1. Remove the engine, transfer case, gearbox, etc. replace with a new engine, transmission and mate to the rear bevel boxes or mate to a new rear axel. In essence making this a two wheel drive vehicle, or

2. Mount to a commercial truck frame with attached engine, trans and axels.

Any ideas?

Thanks

Rodney

Hi Rod,

The very early saracens did not have dipsticks but used level plugs instead It was an early modification to fit dipsticks and they are very much of an improvement. I am surprised that yours was not modified (mine was and that is chassis number 12) as the level plugs are such a pain in the butt!

Are you sure the leak is from the gearbox? It could be but leaks are rare from there, as is a leak from the transfer box. A leak from the fluid flywheel is the most common. You can tell by what the fluid is: engine oil, gearbox. Gear oil, transfer box and from the fluid flywheel you get water thin hydraulic oil. I am afraid that such an old and complex vehicle does tend to be a bit incontinent at various joints: I just top mine up regularly!

Cheers

Thanks John... I checked all levels of everything yesterday, including the FFW which was rather stressfull to make sure I did it right. Everything looks good, but since I have been putting extra gear oil into the transfer case I am fairly sure that is where my leak has been coming from...somewhere. Pics posted below

I have also noticed that on the pedel up proceedure (prior to starting) the pedal can be rather hard to push, and my second gear is not working well. All other gears work fine. Worried that Iwill have to open the gear box... any ideas?

A few pictures of the bevel boxes....

Guys I feel like I am losing my mind....

My 1976 Saracen Manual says that I should have (at a minimum) dipsticks for the rear bevel boxes, filler plugs for the rear boxes, and filler plugs (inside vehicle) for the center, and filler plugs (and sometimes dipsticks) for the front bevel boxes inside the engine.

Well... nothing, nada.

Pulled the rear floor plates and can clearly see the rear bevel boxes on each side of the gas tank. No dipsticks, no filler plugs, no access ports / plates, etc.

The center bevel boxes only have a plate (4 bolts) that I was able to remove to peer inside.

The front bevel boxes have no dipsticks in the engine area (that I can see) and no filler plugs that the manual says should be just forward of the air cleaners.

After racking my brain, I noticed that outside the vehicle, on the underside each bevel box has a filler / level plug. I pulled each plug and filled until fluid ran out.

Has anyone ever hear of this? Do I have some prototype "black ops" Saracen that has the interior access to the bevel boxes hidden in some secret compartment?...lol

I also appear to have a leak from the gear box, not sure where... any advise? Thanks guys, I will take a few pictures and post later today.

Rodney

Gear box and transfer box take different fluid types.

here is the results of many threads read anc collated i will put some useful links to materials i based this on. Much of it comes from Richard or Clive.

 

The gearbox takes OMD70-85 (different manuals give different oils) which in civvi money is SAE30 or 10w/30 is a suitable replacement.

SAE30 is also used in the engine,air filters and pumps.

 

The Transfer box takes OEP220. EP80W/90 transition fluid, also used in the bevel boxes, tracta joint housing and hubs.

 

The Fluid Fly Wheel coupling takes OM13 or any ISO15 hydraulic fluid, i have also read of OM10 being used and i suspect it is what is in my ffw. The same fluid can be used in the braking/steering system also.

 

Yay i think i was helpful.

also PM sent.

Thank you very much... that is a great help

Rodney

Hi Alaskan, welcome to the forum! So, you are also burdened with a beast! I have been busy compiling a Saracen register with pics and registration numbers. Please be so kind to post some pics and the registration number of your Saracen and if you have, that of any other sarrys too for inclusion into the register.

Hello Montie...

As far as I can tell the Saracen is #416 which I found stamped on a inner pannel in the engine area. I will look for more numbers and let you know. Thanks

Rodney

Anyone have any ideas on how to obtain 12 x 20 tires for my Saracen? I haven't even checked with my local tire dealer to see if they are obtainable in the states, but thought I would check here first.

Another question for those that may know:

My understanding is that the gearbox and transfer case of the Saracen share the same fluid base. If so, is there ever any need to fill / top off the fluids from the transfer case, or can all levels be topped off from the gear box?

I noticed that both have dipsticks to check levels, which seems odd if both share the same fludis. Sorry for my ignorance.

Thanks

Hi Gary and welcome to the forum.

 

I was looking at the photo of your Saracen, a nice and tidy vehicle there, but notice it is a Mk6 with reverse cooling version and that the front air duct cowling appears to be discarded on the top of an adjacent container. Do you have any overheating issues with it?

 

regards, Richard

Anyone have any ideas on where I can obtain 12 X 20 Saracen tires (tyres)? Is there a current commercial copy available? My tires are in good shape, but I would like a spare or two. Thanks