Desert Rat

I have been driving my Bedford MJ in the last few weeks and every day the brakes are awful.

No matter how gently I try to apply them, they act like a switch - either 'ON' or 'OFF'.

When I try to apply them, they simply lock up instantly.

The only way to overcome this I have found is to drive round the yard a bit with the brakes applied very lightly so the truck is labouring (as if to 'clean' the brake drums?) and then its okay. However, if left for a few hours, it reverts back to 'ON' or 'OFF'.

Any clues anyone ?

Here is another picture showing the beachhead

 

Visible are:-

 

BARV

 

Eager Beaver X 2

 

Loader

 

Sankey trailer being pulled by what?

 

Sea Kings X 2

 

 

R

Pretty sure that the loader is a Michigan.

Never underestimate the power of a spade!!!:thumbsup: half an hour with a spade often helps in a big way. moving earth and clearing chassis crossmembers is always my first point of attack.

Very true.

We recovered a 360 digger on bog tracks that had slipped and sunk.

Two bucket's of material moved from the front made the difference from it being pulled out and the truck getting pulled towards it.

A wheel/track that can move up a slope will make recovery much easier than a wheel/track that is hard against a solid wall of earth/mud.

Like Grumpy has said each job is different from the last. Most MV's have in all fairness got good recovery points but modern commercials don't have.

This is why Cosrec has said that a variety of kit and methods needs to be employed.

If you read what Cosrec has written (as he does this for a living) you will see that he explains that different situations/vehicle types etc require different winching methods, strops, shackles etc. This may mean using towing eyes, lashing points, axles, etc

This is the whole point of the thread - there is no 'one hat fits all' method to recovery.

If this was the case then most wreckers would just turn up with a winch and 6ft of logging chain !

It's not just ramblings it's usefull information and i for one enjoy logging on to read this thread and have learned a few good tips. I would like to see a few more pictures of recovery jobs with a little bit of a discription if possible. Super stuff:tup::

Totally agree. Brilliant thread and very informative.

Yes, it would be great to see more recovery pictures as all you normally get to see is a crashed vehicle or the same vehicle on tow. It would be good to see what happens in between.

:thanx:

Probably because there appears to be at least one red shirt W&P official in attendance during it's arrival, no one seems to be suprised by it's landing, thought no one was expecting it??

Those were my thoughts - Not expecting it in an area cleared ready for the arrival of a helicopter....

The loader in the water could be a Michigan.

You obviously got someone who knows nothing !

 

I was wondering what this Pioneer is, because if it is a recovery version, it would normally be operated by REME and bear their flash, red/yellow/blue. Assume it is a ballast tractor and was used for towing plant trailers, they would be operated by RE and carry the blue square......unless someone has swapped mudguards from another one.

Richard, the RE operated Pioneer R100 Gun tractors AND SV/2S recovery variants when pulling plant trailers. When operating in Italy with the 8th Army, they had an assortment of Pioneers, Diamond T's and Macks as well as a few QL's and Matadors.

Pioneers, macks and DT's on plant trailers, QL's carrying spares etc and the Matadors pulling smaller trailers or acting as pushers/shunters on the plant trailers.

Basically the RE in Italy got whatever they could from North Africa and beyond.

Not sure what they were equipped with in NW Europe.

Hope this helps.

Out of interest, how do you stand on licensing and registration for use on the waterways ?

Perhaps we can all stay safe if we over do it:D The biggest shackle/chain you can use for the job. stronger than any load you can put on it. Oh and make sure you connect it to something that is firmly attached to the thing your towing:cool2:

I often see lots of second hand sets of lifting brothers for sale on trade stalls around steam rallys. having looked at some of them closely they would not pass an inspection. and they want silly money for them too. I've heard people saying they will be fine for use at home and for towing ect but this is the sort of thing that fails and explodes bits of chain link all over the place. I'm not saying al of them are knackerd but this bear in mind if the thing you are towing / lifting is near the max SWL on your decidedly second hand overpriced new purchace :-) The man who inspects out gear at work is really sound and is more than happy to have a look at my newly purchased overpriced decidely second hand stuff. he will either say yey or nay or sometimes remove/ renew the termimal links ect. However being slightly in the know i haven't managed to buy anything dodgy but i still have it checked by the nice man for free.

Very true.

Having recently bought another 2 pairs of brand new, certed 4-leg lifting brothers, i was pleasantly surprised how cheap they were when you compare some of the prices for second hand ones.

 

this also looks like the tackle fastening the cable to the casualty failed. See how the cable flopped to the ground. but if they were chains that failed bits could have been shot anywhere. once again its the gear that causes the issues and miscalculating the forces required. the simple soloution is dont use tack with a lower rating than the winch your connecting to:nut:

There have always been two trains of thought with chains, mainly those who say that using a chain will, in the event of a breakage, kill the inertia due to it being a multitude of links, not one single piece.

However, the other side of the coin is that the link of the chain that breaks normally goes off like a .303 round !!

On a straight tow, I always prefer a heavy towing chain to a wire rope but as we know you don't always get a choice.

As posted earlier, a lot of pics of vehicles are in the weeks after the war itself.

Pics of the 202's, scorpions etc plus tractors and civvy land rovers are the most prolific pics during the conflict.

There is also a report in one of the books written a few years ago that gives a number for gun hops as high as something like 20 in a day by 2 helicopters.

The Argies left a large amount of amphibious vehicles and kit but i ahve no idea whether we utilised any of it ?

agree entirely...shackles scare me when used...

As i said, if done correctly and with the correct, well maintained equipment, you should have no problems. You'll never be 100% safe but at least you've done all you can.

The accident i mentioned with the kinetic rope was due to the actual hitch coming off.

Was it NPTimber who had some pics on the forum of his Scammell and a Militant winching out a digger ?

I remember the Mythbusters program.

The only trouble with this test is that a snapping cable is not the same as a cable suddenly going taught. If you read of any accidents, this nearly always seems to be the case - loose to solid.

The other thing is that humans seem to have a nasty habit of having their bones snap and come out of various places. In the inccident i saw, thats what had caused the most damage.

Its often the same in road accidents. Bones are broken and then cause horrible injuries as they come apart or out.

To be honest, my biggest fear are shackles or hitches breaking and then becoming a missile on the end of a strap/rope.

'Cut in two' is a term often used in these inccidents but in reality it is more likey a case of severe trauma or horrific injuries. I can't say i have ever seen or heard of anyone being cleanly halved by a rope but as i said i have seen and heard of people being pulped or severed.

Lets not forget that I'm so bloody clever that i have a scar across my shin.

100% my own fault.

I was winching a large bowser up a slope onto a trailer and had about 3 feet of slack cable (only about a 10mm line) when the bowser ran backwards down the slope, the rope went tight which turned it from a rope into a steel bar and it hit me square in the shin, shattering the bone. I fell forward and over the rope.

Should have known better.

Can anyone remember the chap who was towing with a kinetic rope that pulled a Nato hitch off a vehicle he was towing and then came through the back window and killed him ?

Get some good kit, look after it and use it safely.

You aren't going mad- Mythbusters tried it!

 

They concluded- with the "pig test"- that although a snapped winch cable would not sever limbs, it could cause pretty severe damage; unlikely to be fatal (but that was a possibility), but extremely painful nonetheless.

 

Not gonna enter the argument 'cos I don't know diddly squat about winching :-D

The two lads who were killed near us were smashed to pieces.

One had his leg almost severed from his pelvis and the other had the part where his rib-cage should have been opened up like a can of soup, also breaking through his spine.

This was caused by the ship dropping whilst having a gen-set craned off the deck which caught another rope.

Imagine a steel bar, 40 feet long, 1 inch in diameter moving sideways at 60mph and then hitting you.

it doesn't cut you, it smashes you, or throws you.

To be honest, i don't really care. It seems that some of you think because you havent seen it then it wont happen. Good, i hope it never does, but if any of you are ever hit with a small or large steel cable, even if it doesn't snap, then I'd like to see what you post then.

The trouble is, when it happens, and it will happen, it will be down to someone with a total lack of common sense and respect for what they are doing, then the whole MV movement will be changed forever.

The sole surviving Chinook remained so until 4 more arrived as late as June 10th.

A lot of the 105 guns were bunny hopped across the island by helicopter (fight, gain, lift, fight, gain, lift)

As various parts of the island were liberated, a couple of civillian Land Rovers and 3 tractors and trailers became available for use.

I have several shots at San Carlos with a BARV on the shoreline, also a pic of a BV202.

Hello Desert Rat,

 

Thanks for that, I was just really thinking if the worst happened and someone was hurt, even though every thing was done right, the cable looked in good order ect, but no test certificate then who does the buck lay with. Do the organisers of an event take blame because they did not ask to see a certificate. Or does it just stop with the owner of the vehicle.

Howard

If you really want to play it right, you stay at home and dont take your poluting, politically incorrect, over-sized vehicles to a show. If you do, then you park up, ensure the vehicle is disabled and then put up your cordoned area with a minimum 9 metres between you and the public....

However thats not what we do and the reality is that you attend the show, you ensure that your vehicle is in roadworthy condition and well maintained.

If you are giving demonstrations then it is done in a safe, separate area with ALL members of the public at a safe distance.

If using equipment that has a chance of failing (ropes, winches, explosives etc) then you would be wise to ensure that they are in first class condition. IF something went wrong then in theory (??!!) the public will be out of harms way and you will have thought of most concequences.

Liability ? Thats what your insurance (??) and the organisers insurance (!!!!) policies are for....

But then again, life ain't like that, is it ?

This thread has been very interesting in that I now know that the winch cables,ect need to be tested. I dont want to be a stick in the mud but at an certain show I attend there are a number of heavy commercials that gointo the arena and do recovery demonstrations for the public to watch. Surely these vehicles should have test certificates for the cables and if they dont then should not be used. The other point is where does the certification of the winch cables stop what about landrovers and other small 4x4 vehicles fitted with a winch, should they have a test certificate? I have a trailer with a 12 volt winch that we use to winch on search lights. should this also have a cerificate?

Thanks

Howard

As with everything in this hobby you have to display a certain amount of common sense.

If you are going to regularly winch or give winching demonstrations then for your own safety and that of those around you, you would more than likely have a new cable fitted and then you would also have a test cert.

If you were going to use your winch occasionally the you would no doubt run your cable out and inspect it for any breaks, nips or obvious defects.

However, that said, even a new certificated rope is no guarantee of it never breaking.

Also, it comes down to having the right gear (snatch blocks, shackles, chains) and most of all, knowing how to use them...

Its just common sense.

Out of interest, what engine did the winner have ?

Its pointless all backing off into seperate corners of the room.

As far as the intentions of the stolly owner goes, its good to see an MV being enjoyed and used as it was intended. Its always nice to see them being used.

However, as has been stated, there are some serious points on which you should look and listen.

The reason that some of the members have chastised you about your recovery methods etc is because you have been lucky this time to get away unharmed.

Anyone involved in recovery or heavy plant views inccidents such as this with fear. The reason that they post with perceived anger and frustration is because it may be hard to convey how bloody lucky you have been.

As for the claim about snapping wire ropes and deaths being 'old wives tales' I would ask you to tell that to the families of the two Philipino lads who we scraped up and washed off the deck of a vessel off the coast of West Africa.

Anyone who does not treat a wire rope with the respect that it deserves is a dead man walking. I have a scar from a shattered shin to prove it.

We all do silly things and will continue to do so but as far as the video goes, if it were me and i intended to do this again (and why not ?) then make sure you have the gear available (ropes, chains, shackles, blocks etc) to ensure a safe recovery if you need it. To be honest, if done correctly it can all add to the fun (I'm sure the Explorer boys will always be only too willing....) but remember that this will draw a crowd like a stripper on a pogo-stick. Crowd control is part and parcel of recovery, its a pain but a necessary evil.

Also, as previously posted, try and do a proper recce of your entry and exit points, saves a lot of hassle or breakages later.

Anyway, don't knock the lads who know the risks of the job as they are only trying to prevent what has been seen all too often.

Don't quote me on this but is it the type which is like a ring with tabs bent over ?

If so (and i cannot remember what vehicle we did this on) but we pushed the tabs back, wiped the sealing ring down, applied tons of oil resisitant sealant/gunky crap and then put the sender back in and hammered the tabs back.

Just a thought, try speaking to your local LR dealer (they can be very helpful) as the workshop may be able to give you a couple of tips when they have encountered this problem.

You'd be surprised how often they have to overcome stupid things such as this rather than the obvious option of 'fit a new one'.

Good Luck.

What year is it ?

I have been reading a magazine called Trucking Down Memory Lane (Classic & Vintage Commercials), in the chapter Readers Memories (page 77) there is a photo and caption saying that the Diamond T (in photo) Something rather Special here - a Diamond T fitted with an engine formerly in a Spitfire. Also the Author said that he drove Diamond T's with Spitfire engines, why would you want to fit a DT with a Spitfire Engine? and what sort of fuel consumption would you get, & what sort of speed would this beast do?.The photo enclosed in the magazine, looks like any normal Diamond T.:drive::goodidea::readpaper::wow:

 

If it aint bust dont touch it !!!!!!

I have seen one of these Diamond T's.

Well, let me put it this way......

More than once over the years i have spoken to a variety of people who have told me that they know of/heard of Diamond T's being fitted with 'Spitfire engines'.

It always turned out, including the one i went to see, that they are infact Rolls-Royce engines.......C6NFL's...!!!!!!!

"Yeh mate, they're a dieselised version of the spitfire engine...." came the reply.

"Oh, right, so what happened to the other 6 cylinders ?" :-D

Also had the same thing happen when being shown a Rolls C6 powering a generator.

Its all to do with chinese whispers and a bit of imagination.:nut:

No, it sounds fine.

Let him have your details.

I hear he is also looking to buy any 432's as well....:nut:

When i sold my last DT i had about 10 of these e-mails all wanting to pay the full price and wishing that i will be blessed by God and that my guinea pig will be happy.

I wonder how many people actually reply to these fools ?