WW2Aaron91

1 hour ago, Kent Transport History said:

Then some heavy research is needed first, to establish what was built locally, and how to tell. not easy, but possible. 

how many churchill lines were there? and what were the years/numbers produced?

Thanks I have already undertaken a lot of research and a total of 764 Churchill’s were made by the company  all being Mk.I to III research so far: 

T-32246 to T-32470 - Churchills I-IV

T-68641 to T-68816 - Churchills I-IV

T32396 - Churchill I Gloucester RC&W Mild steel pilot model

T32397 - T32470 - Churchill I, II Gloucester RC&W Production models 

T32396 - T32470 - Total 74 Tanks 

T67866 - T67990 Gloucester RC&W and Birmingham RC&W Production Models 

T67866 - T67990 - Total 124 Tanks 

T68716 - T68840 - Churchill III Gloucester RC&W Production models 

T68716 - T68840 - Total 124 Tanks

You can see that numbers T67868 to T67990 are claimed by both Gloucester RC&W and Birmingham RC&W. Could it be that these numbers were allotted to Gloucester originally and then moved to Birmingham? What numbers were carried by the remaining 442 Gloucester Churchill’s?

This is the information I have managed to source so far and a few further questions I am trying to answer while asking about replica’s, etc. 

Some of the above list are mentioned in The Tank Museum, Bovington paperwork as “assembly only”. 

The above information has been gathered from a number of websites, forums and The History of the Gloucester Railway Carriage and Wagon Company Limited (1960) and The Churchill Tank.

9 minutes ago, Kent Transport History said:

The wasted cost of building a replica, you may as well find something genuine, and do a steady 'rolling' restoration on it. It's one of the interesting things I find in museums. finished stuff bores me a little lol. 

Have you considered a lottery grant, to assist in paying for an acquisition/ heavy recovery?  

A genuine local historical subject is always worthy of lottery funds

Thank you for this, I have been looking into all avenues including lottery funding. 

The one problem I have been having is finding a Churchill Mk. I, II or III with its original data plate intact/in place proving that it is a Gloucester Railway Carriage and Wagon Company Limited built Churchill or even other information allowing this to be proven in other ways. 

For a local history subject such as this for lottery funding I have found it needs to be proven and have evidence that said vehicle being recovered is a locally built vehicle and that it is of some historical importance, etc.

If the funds were available I am sure a full scale replica using same methods, materials etc., could be done as a bit of an “experimental archeological” type project. 

As I have mentioned elsewhere, I am looking into and willing to hear everyone’s thoughts and ideas regarding this as nothing at the moment is set in stone.

7 minutes ago, eddy8men said:

Thank you very kindly for both pictures and the correction. I have sent an email already regarding the hull. I need to find details for the turret next. Thank you again.

3 minutes ago, eddy8men said:

there's a nice early churchill hull on lydd range that should be an easy recovery. also a turret in an rspb reserve in leamington spa and i have access to a full set of early track for free. you get the permissions and i will recover them for you

Thank you for this, I shall look into this further and see what I can find/dig up (no pun intended).

16 minutes ago, 11th Armoured said:

If the new museum has any space constraints, then it would probably also be more flexible as an exhibit if it was made of wood or similar - if it was a policy to periodically change the items on display, then moving a range wreck, a static, cosmetically-restored 'original' or even an unpowered new-build replica in mild steel or whatever isn't necessarily going to be a simple matter.

If you're also going to display railway rolling stock, then this may be something you've already taken into account, but worth bearing in mind.

Kevin

Hi Kevin, 

Thank you for your detailed message/comment. 

At the moment the museum is a portable mobile museum but we are looking into land and buildings at the moment which will allow us to build the museum around our collection providing the space needed as and when required.

With regards other aspects, the museum has access to a number of WW2 railway wagons which were used for carrying tanks and it would be possible to put the Churchill on one of these wagons as part of a display as well as ease of moving the display and collections around as and when required. We also have access to a number of other WW2 items which will on the occasion be used for displays and events. 
 

At the current moment we are looking into the viability and costs involved of creating a Churchill Tank replica whether that be a full working replica, wood and steel or part original/part replica. We are willing to listen and look into all potential options and the associated costs. 

1 hour ago, John F said:

I've seen some good full-size static models made out of wood, is that an option for you? It'd certainly be cheaper.

It is an option, we are happy and willing to look at all options available, costs involved and all the details before a final decision is made, either way we would probably looking to fundraise for its construction as it will be a museum piece. 

1 hour ago, Kent Transport History said:

Hello,

there is a hulk of a churchill somewhere in kent still, not sure where though. 

Thank you kindly, I shall have to look into this and see if I can locate the hull you mention and it’s owners.

57 minutes ago, Rootes75 said:

Very similar thoughts with us here, Somerset born and bred and very keen on its heritage especially wartime.

I am currently very interested in Pillboxes and the stop line which runs through our village.

Indeed, I know what you mean, I have been plotting Pillboxes, Civil Defences and other aspects of local wartime history and heritage from the war on a Google Earth Map which I am hoping to be able to upload to a website I am working on.

22 minutes ago, Rootes75 said:

The Glorious Glosters, lots of history.

You will find plenty of wise heads on the forum.

Thank you kindly, I am interested in all aspects of Gloucestershire’s wartime history and heritage including the wartime manufacturing of Gloucestershire including local Churchill Tanks, “whale” sections for Mulberry Harbour and aircraft from the Gloster Aircraft Company.

19 minutes ago, Rootes75 said:

Agree with the above, get in touch with the tank museum as they offer plenty of advice.

Thank you, I shall do just that. 

30 minutes ago, Mk3iain said:

You could start with a VR tour of a Churchill and build from there the same data would be usable for a hologram (maybe).

The equipment required would then be usable elsewhere in the museum.

VR is a good starting point but would not replace the experience of the real thing.

Worth talking to the Tank Museum they have done similar with German WW2 displays ( Tiger experience) and they are on here ! They may also have something at the back of a shed somewhere...

 

Iain

Thank you kindly Iain, I shall definitely bare that in mind and get in touch with them. 

17 minutes ago, Mk3iain said:

Thanks Aaron

Would be nice if you could locate a range wreck or at least a part of one that had been built by GRC&W. Maybe using a restorable hull as the basis as mentioned on the other thread.

Just a rough hull would be a displayable item, with clever holographic projection it could be turned into something special and help raise funds for a build.

Its a thought.

Iain 

Thank you Iain, 

I have been looking for a GRC&W Churchill and from my research only one is known to exist a Mk.III in a Sweden museum. 

That sounds like an interesting idea, I was thinking of fundraising for the replica build but wasn’t sure how to go about doing it, I was thinking of a small model to help fund raise but that sounds like an even better idea, I know of a few Churchill tank hulls and even Turrets are still around in ranges but not too sure if they are GRC&W built.

I shall definitely keep a record of your suggestion and when I am next speaking to the Founders/Trustees of the museum I shall let them know. 

6 minutes ago, Mk3iain said:

Hi Aaron

I bit more about yourself and the group you are part of if that is the case would help a lot.

More detail on what you hope to achieve, such as theatrical look alike to a fully running exact replica in all detail and of course the possible available budget.

Also if you input your profile location.

 

Best wishes

Iain

 

Hi Iain, 

Yes of course, I am 28 years old and I am working with a relatively new museum that has been slowly setting themselves up since 2016 and is dedicated to the Gloucester Railway Carriage and Wagon Company Limited (GRC&W). 

GRC&W built a total of 764 Churchill Tanks Mk.I to III during the Second World War including a Mild Steel Prototype as well as many other items and products for the military during WW2 including “whale” sections for mulberry harbour.

We are still in the process of researching everything at the moment and do not have a set budget as it was.

We would love to have a working example but I have been told this could be expensive and well into 6 figures. I am open to options and other avenues. I have been thinking of wood and steel with the exterior and interior looking as it would of done by with no engine or armour platting.

This would be used in the museum (eventually) as well as during an annual event which we are currently looking into/planning to hold and we would like to be able to open it up as it was to allow visitors and others inside to have a look.

Hope this gives more of a background and happy to speak to anyone who would be able to help or advice in anyway (we are also looking for drawings, plans, etc.)

Thank you again.

Regards,

Aaron
 

9 minutes ago, REME 245 said:

You would not use armour plate or indeed steel of the same thickness if you were building a replica (just give the external impression) .  To do so would be prohibitively expensive and very few companies in the country would be able to fabricate in such scale.  If you are doing this with the full support of the City Council and veterans organisations you may be able to aquire / buy a bare hull that has been on a range and rebuild a static vehicle from that, but still at great expense.   If you are working for an offical body and or have a very rich benifactor, I would recommend you identify yourself as such if you want to be taken seriously by dealers / Museums.

Thank you very kindly for this. 

The project will be part of a relatively new museum that has slowly been setting itself up since 2016.

I have been thinking of more a static example rather than a working example but I am looking into all options and avenues at the moment but it is looking like a static example would be the way we would be going but with the possibility of having the external and internal looking like an original but with no engine but as I said looking into all aspects and avenues at the moment.

Hello everyone,

My name is Aaron and I am 28 years old. I was born and bred in Gloucestershire but recently moved over the border to South Wales but still travel back to my home County or at least did under Covid-19 changed that recently and will start travelling back sometime soon.

my main area of interest the Second World War and I have been researching for the past 2 years my home County during this period and have been working on a number of projects to locate, promote and preserve this history and my research.

Thank you for allowing me to join this Forum. It will definitely help me with some of my research. 

Hello everyone, 

I originally posted this in the British Vehicles section not realising there was a Tracked Section on the website as I am a newbie to the forum...

I am involved in a number of projects relating to WW2 and my home County and as part of one of these projects I have been asked to look into a possible new build Churchill Tank and I was wondering if anyone here would know roughly how much a new build tank would cost? Or be able to provide any useful information or guidance. 

Thank you all in advance and I look forward to hearing from anyone who is able to help.

Kindest regards, 

Aaron

47 minutes ago, john1950 said:

When Guy Martin was involved with that WW1 replica tank, I seem to remember them talking about raising well into six figures as well as getting a lot of work done by volunteers. But what model would you go for, there were so many to choose from. Then there are the specialist ones, Including the one with a Sherman main gun.

Thank you for your reply this sounds very interesting, I haven’t seen the Guy Martin programme before (as of yet).

I have been looking into the project for a while and the project will/is based around local history and I know from my research that the Gloucester Railway Carriage and Wagon Company Limited (GRC&W) constructed Churchill Mk.I to Mk.III Tanks and it would most likely be one of these examples which I would be looking to build a replica of. 

I also know GRC&W built a Mk.I Mild Steel Prototype.

I know and understand a full scale armour plated working replica would and could be pricey which is why I am also looking into all avenues and options at the moment.

1 hour ago, Bob Grundy said:

What is your ' home country' if its Greenland you may have difficulty......

My home County in Gloucestershire.

Hello everyone, 

I am involved in a number of projects relating to WW2 and my home County and as part of one of these projects I have been asked to look into a possible new build Churchill Tank and I was wondering if anyone here would know roughly how much a new build tank would cost? Or be able to provide any useful information or guidance. 

Thank you all in advance and I look forward to hearing from anyone who is able to help.

Kindest regards, 

Aaron