webkitlover

Hi guys, my search for NI kit is going well.

after speaking to veterans that served in 2 different decades it seems there are very few bit's of kit that were only issued to NI troops. it's really only riot gear and webbing kit was cut down for urban patrols.

I have however managed to find a few bits for the display, the Veterans have a store which revealed a replica armalite, a deac SLR with SUIT sight, bren gun and SMG. and a few odd bits of kit including a batton! 

I also managed to buy a pair of mint NI boots (a tiny size 6), I see why people preferred them to DMS or Hileg boots, they are pretty light in comparrison and in the toe end there is a sort of soft felt, so it would feel like slippers!

a bomb search torch/mirror was alsobought in the same shop.

all the rest of the kit shown pouches helmet, weapon stuff etc is my own.

But could anyone help, I'm trying to figure out when this particular search tool was issued the torch seems pretty old school like 80's or earlier style, and car bombs became a popular method for terrorists, I assume it was issued around then?

I believ it's caled a "Under Vehicle inspection mirror, swivel end"

The store code is on a plastic sticker near the torch end and it says:

"1385 99 839 8066"

"P.W.Allen 90"

is the 90 a date or model?

The torch is a heavy duty black rubber coated D cell torch made by  "Ever ready" 2 buttons  marked + & - (on/off). You unscrew the front lens to replace batteries, which is why it has odd bits sticking out on the lens on the right angles. there is a flip down plastic bulb holder at the rear. which I initially thought might be the battery cap or lanyard hole. The pole itself does not extend it just has a ball joint for the mirror wich simply attatches with an embedded nut and bolt.

Any ideas of manufacture date, when it was issued or who to?

I was told by an Ex NI soldier that finding NI specific kit is quite hard because it's basically the same kit that you'd be issued for Germany.

I was told, if you look at historic photos of British soldiers parolling the in NI even without knowing who, or when, or where it was,  you can tell alot about the area just by the head wear...i.e. Beret or not!!

Also soldiers were told not to lean on walls during patrols,  obviously after a long day holding an SLR youget tired and you're more likely to lean on things, the IRA got wise to this and started placing bombs at shoulder height where soldiers were often seen leaning!

I had the chance to look through the veterans vast store cupboard for some NI kit and they have one of the batons, a fake Armalite, an S6 helmet, some communist webbing aparently some IRA used, a leather Holster for an undercover handgun (for undercover work) and a few other bits but not much. I guess My oddest item, I've had for nearly 20 years without even looking at it, an RUC pin badge.

Weirdly I was given the pin badge after teaching (i think it was as) "Kids of  RUC" group for a few days, it was a totally civillian job (whilst working as an outdoor instructor at an activity center in East Anglia). 

I shall keep looking!  Thankyou so much for your help so far, it's a really tricky subject to cover .

ow, hope that goes well.

I'm just starting the sessions next week but it will continue till Febuary so theres plenty of time cheers.

Hi as stated before I'm doing some research into the British Army in N.I. for some veterans  for discussion starters in small groups.

I'd really like to find a source of positive photos, (I know tough one).

If you Google "british army Northern Ireland" you just get hundreds of pictures of gritty war, I can't imagine what it was like, but it must have been hell.

I'm after I guess anything like friendly Interaction with public, christmas booze ups, relaxed photos in camps, jokes(non political) ENDEX that sort of thing, so I can bring up conversation about some of the good friendships, caring, kindness, that sort of thing,  I don't want any personal details.

also any pop Music you reckon might trigger memories about times in Northern Ireland.

any help gratefully recieved,

cheers

wow, that's got to be one of the first!  I'm told in the 70's roll mats weren't used!

Hi trying to get info on British Army weapons used (or issued) in NI, any info greatly recieved!

Cheers

Hi I'm working with a veteran group which will be focussing on Northern Ireland, I don't know much about it other than they wore less webbing.

Can anyone enlighten me with NI specific kit I can only think of NI gloves and Riot stuff, but what else was issued?

Cheers

Hi not sure if this is the right section to post it, I'm working for a veteran organisaiton.

I have been given the task of finding out about the life and times of the British soldier good and bad.

Any fun stories would be great but please no names for security reasons.

If possible does anyone know of a good surplus source of the riot gear that was issued, and what kit was specifically issued to NI posted soldier that wasn't on general issue I have a small budget to work with, to buy a few items. Sadly, I can't stretch to a "pig" armoured vehicle!

All I can think of kit wise (other than standard issue) is the N.I. gloves, flack jacket, and possibly chest webbing, but there must be alot more, any info greatly received.

Heres another from Combat and Survival, but the latter was a 75" set I owned, you cant see the yoke, but it was there, I gave to my friend. You can see he attached a s10 (58") resi pouch as a rear pouch.

from the fact that C&S featured set up photos withsoldiers some wearing  75" patt webbing, back in the early 90's some must have quite liked it or thought it was  Gucci back then, it's a bit sad it's so difficult to find today.

Hi may be of help to someone, I found these pics in an old copy of Combat and Survival to do with "GPMG Sustained fire role" and noticed what the soldier closest to the camera is wearing....

I have found a few other photos, I shall post.

On 2/9/2018 at 2:49 PM, wdbikemad said:

Here we go............note, no eyelets on this example undergoing trials during the late-1970's.....

ok just being picky here but...anyone else think the belt is a bit high on this soldier? The belt is overlapping his top pockets which means the belt is probably over his ribs.....I never saw anyone wear 58" pattern that high!

cool, I'll keep a look out for them, I have seen a mint condition RAF OG waterproof in a charity shop from the same era, so it's quite possible there are unused reversible ones are still around.

cool cheers for that.

I used to have an OG trashed version of the medical Bergen  sidepouch it was pretty well made but must have been pretty old becasue all the elastic straps inside had perished.

Hi met some veterans ans heard a few more:

Ok so how do you take your tea/coffee?

"NATO" = Milk 2 sugars

"Julie Andrews" (in the sound of music was a White Nun=none )   White no sugar

"Whoopie Goldberg" (in Sister act was a Black Nun=none )    Black no sugar

cool thanks, i knew the name couldn't something too far from what it actually was,

"Mudmap" and "model" both are good for me cheers

Hi I want to run a shellscrape activity for some kids,  I was in the Infantry  T.A. in the early 90's and the shellscrape was a common overnight shelter for 2 soldiers.

The basic hole dimentions were roughly the size of a poncho or a long double bed mattress 7ft x 5ft x 2ft.

The removed soil made  a mound that surrounds the hole(apart from a small slope at the rear to crawl in and out), 

The mound/wall  at the front (facing the enemy) was slightly longer and had a built in shelf you could use as an arm rest.

The surrounding mound/wall aprox 1ft tall and wide gave the shelter more internal head height and provided further protection from all directions,

If you got the size right the poncho would sit just above the mound/wall so you could see out and aim your rifle without touching the poncho.

Also you'd need to get the size right so the poncho would shed rain on the outside of the hole.

I've done a Google search and asked several veterans I know that served in the British Army and RAF regiment from 70's up to the 1st Gulf war, and kosavo, and they all remember making and sleeping in the shellscrape but, were like me, were taught in the field word-of-mouth.

My question is this, was there ever an official document or even a line drawing with specific measurements of how the shellscrape should be built?

I'm guessing perhaps if there were a document it would probably date back to post WW2 when Platoon harbours type overnight camps became common, perhaps after 2 man tents were a common sight,  or perhaps when 58" gear with the poncho and shovel were issued? just a guess.

apart from 2 leaky shellscrapes I stayed in I found them really quite comfortable to sleep in, you could adapt them slightly to make more space and because of the surrounding soil they were always quiet and well insulated against wind and cold. once you got a hexy going they were really cosy.

It would be dead easy to just make a shell scrape the way I was taught,  but it would be nice to know if there is an official document.

I've looked in British Army issued  MoD Aide Memouires,  field guides and MoD training pamphlets but the only thing they ever show is a few trench designs, never the shellscrape.

any ideas? cheers

Thanks for that list!

You're right about "Ally", I'd not heard of that till long after my TA time i also knew nice or desirable kit as Gucci.

Also I'd not heard the phrase "Buckshee" meaning free,  we just said..."free" or nicked

There was lots of cockney rhyming slang like:

"Tea leaf", or just "leaf"  = theif

I like the CEFO and CEMO, not heard that version before!

there are many, MANY slang versions that also include swear words or "Army only" sense of humour the "tinned tomatoes" I think prtobably are on that list.

I had a serious look at all the acronyms too, there are hundreds, and as I was writing a list I realised how many are have confusinly similar or even the same Acronym for example:

"ERV  Emergency Rendevous" could depending on who was giving instructions could also mean...

"ERV Eastern Rendevous"

C.O. = Commanding Officer/  C.O. = Commisioned Officer.

C.D. Civil Defence /  C.D. Casualty Dead

I personally didn't leave East Anglia or spend any time with the Navy or Airforce, so perhaps the lingo I heard and used was more local Army focussed.

Might be a localised thing, I never heard a rifle reffered to as a "Boondock", you'd almost certainly end up doing press-ups, if you did! It was bad enough if you even said "SA80", or "SLR" it didn't matter what Gun you were issued you were obliged to call it "Rifle".

As for training areas, "Cud"?...naah, again not heard of it.

We just used an abreviation or whatever it was actually called, for example a well known training area I went to in Norfolk was "Standford Battle area" but it was known to everyone simply as "Stanta". Probably partially because it's the same abbreviated name as seen on MoD roadsigns nearby.

but of course, it being "Dads Army"... "Cud" may be a fictional name.

I don't know the ferret car but perhaps it's a pad  designed for a smaller build person?

perhaps it covers something sharp near the brow area?

Is it for a chin, forearm, wrist, cheek, etc etc?

For those that have done infantry training, on excersise you'd come across a DIY map which a dutiful OC or NCO would have spend some time making.

The map was made from pretty much anything to hand,  mine tape, wire, string, bit's of rations hexi stoves whatever you had, it would often include handfuls of grass or moss to represent wooded areas and I saw a couple that had been carefuly landscaped to show miniture  hills, they would also show when the enemy was expected to be and things like ERVs

you can buy specific kits to make the maps see below:

Cammand model kit

on that website they don't give those maps a name, just as a tool to

Quote

An enhanced compact model kit ideal for infantry section commanders and above, for use during the orders process.  It provides a variety of symbols, ribbons and markers that will assist in creating a model to illustrate your plan. 

 

I can't for the life of me remember what the heck those DIY handmade 3d maps were called...any ideas?

keep finding new ones I didn't know...

Furry Crocodile  =  Dog!

cool many thanks,

BTW anyone know the origins of the word "Ally" meaning cool kit?

I'm assuming it's an abreviation, but of what?

I've looked online and can only find the meaning "allied", I can't think it came from.

Cheers again

Hi just doing a little reseach for some veteran friends, I want to try to make an extensive list of Army RAF and Navy slang and phrases from the 70's onwards.

I've remembered quite there are loads on line wikipeadia and ARRSE have a selection

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Glossary_of_British_military_slang_and_expressions

https://www.arrse.co.uk/wiki/Army_Slang

I remember there were loads more for example what was the phrase for

Underpants? was it keks, skivvies,

and there are some phrases you don't hear anywhere else like:

"Don't call me Sir, I work for a living" (if you called anyone less than an officer, Sir).

But can't remember all of them, can you think of any more words or phrases you used or kew of? localised ones?

cheers

OH My Gosh, I said I'd do some charity work, that requires a smart DPM Uniform,

Dammit, I can't pair up anything in my DPM collection of Jackets and trousers that match exactly! lol

S'pose it's authentic though, none of my ( or anyone elses) issued T.A. gear matched, see my passing out parade photo, no one's combats matched!

Note: 5 variations of DPM colours on view, 84 and 68 and probably other jackets, why was it called "Uniform" again? 

we were supposed to wear the nylon belts too but half of us were never issued them.

(I'm bottom far right with the closed eyes!) the shorter corpral was always messing around with us hence his beret is on backwards!

Hi I have a first aid pouch, I assume issued with OG PLCE but the attatchment seems very basic just a single vertical strap, no "C" clip or velcro flap. Just wondering if it was part of standard kit or not. It's OG PLCE material, has a single fastex clousure and folds open to reveal 3 pouches one is open, the other 2 have velcro'd lids

The info printed on it:

"PACK MEDICAL EQUIPMENT

6545-99-978-4567

SL32A/5077 RR90"

( theres also a tiny circular stamp I assume a QC mark can't make out the words but it has a 38 in the center)