CharlieC

Hello Mike full nsn 7SA/2540-99-829-1802. Visually looks like Landrover nearest pt. no. I have found 75925B said to be Foden S10 Fleet master but that looks different. 

Thanks for looking 

Rgds Charles 

Does anyone know which MV a Lucas 75926 24v wiper motor fits please 

Yes the tyres are 16 ax 6.50 Hi Milers not 16 x 6 -- I see there are new alternatives and there may be secondhand wheels at Fairs?

No I don't have a military log book with this vehicle and don't recall them from MVS. I gave those Lts to my sons.

Yes I feel better about the Project today and still can't believe my luck in finding an unwanted package of three working generators, two working cables, one working Mk4 Panel and one repairable Mk3 panel this week. This enabled various trial set ups separate from the under floor Mk4 panel and its cables to get a charging result with Clive's help as to what I should be looking for in U V inputs to the Mk3 Generator on the vehicle.

 

What is IIRC ? --- thanks for mentioning I need a late model chassis with mounting points for the Generator we had not thought of that.

 

The rest of the LLFFR has some rusty footwell holes which we will repair once the body is off but the upper bulkhead ventilation panel looks surprisingly good but the steel triangular lower door hinge panels are tatty, the hood is newish, engine is MOD recon seems to run OK and no apparent g/box problems. This is never going to be more than a run about, it has original type Goodyear 6.00 x 16 tyres but these seem hard to find now. MVS had heaps of them at Fradley (Lichfield) when I bought the last two lightweights about 20 years ago.

 

I appreciate your continued support thank you.

 

--------

 

IIRC = ABBRV. for 'If I remember / recall correctly'

 

Tyres were normally Goodyear Hi-Miller Extragrip in 6.50x16 , RAF in later years were tending to fit radials - Michelin XCL 6.50R16. 6.50" are now more or less unobtanium.

 

I used to try and get down to Fradley Park every month / 2 month. Purchased several L'wts off them + a few spares (that I should have paid more attention too in retrospect).

 

Did you get the MOD Service Record book(s) off MVS , possibly you had it passed on for this truck ? I think they failed to have the book for just one truck that I purchased.

Yes I feel better about the Project today and still can't believe my luck in finding an unwanted package of three working generators, two working cables, one working Mk4 Panel and one repairable Mk3 panel this week. This enabled various trial set ups separate from the under floor Mk4 panel and its cables to get a charging result with Clive's help as to what I should be looking for in U V inputs to the Mk3 Generator on the vehicle.

What is IIRC ? --- thanks for mentioning I need a late model chassis with mounting points for the Generator we had not thought of that.

The rest of the LLFFR has some rusty footwell holes which we will repair once the body is off but the upper bulkhead ventilation panel looks surprisingly good but the steel triangular lower door hinge panels are tatty, the hood is newish, engine is MOD recon seems to run OK and no apparent g/box problems. This is never going to be more than a run about, it has original type Goodyear 6.00 x 16 tyres but these seem hard to find now. MVS had heaps of them at Fradley (Lichfield) when I bought the last two lightweights about 20 years ago.

I appreciate your continued support thank you.

QUOTE=ruxy;495465]The strain should be starting to unburden. A new Richards galv. chassis will be a good plan , don't forget IIRC - you need to specify FFR and a late FFR chassis having the brackets to mount the regulator - this late spec. chassis will automatically have the reinforced dumb-irons that originated even earlier abt. 1980

What condition is the rest of the mechanicals , bodywork , upholstery - the normal footwells rot problem , having had two lightweights already - then you will be aware of the ventilator panel fabrication that can rust out.

Even if you don't intend getting yourself a 'Unitary Radio Kit' , then obviously if you keep as original - always a good furure proof sales feature - too many L'wt FFR's have been butchered over last 10 years or so , often as one of the variations of 'ringer' for free road tax status.

Thanks for your comments, you are probably correct on suspecting the cable -- the elbow is a bit wobbly and suffering from a worn out thread --- hopefully the existing panel to generator cable, which looks better, will prove OK once I have checked the wiring continuity.

That's excellent news, you must have an unimaginable glow of satisfaction that you could not have expected a week or so ago. I'm sure your appreciation of how charging systems work has come on by leaps & bound, so it really is worth persevering not only increasing your knowledge & experience but maintaining the historic & financial value of the vehicle.

 

 

No it should be no hotter than any cable through which the current is flowing.

 

It suggests:

Dirty contacts on the silver plated pin connectors.

The female pins have got expanded.

There are some dry / failed joints in the soldered wires into the connector pins. They may show ok on a multimeter continuity test but unable to carry a heavy current.

 

It is very unlikely that there are any defective joints to the generator plug inside the generator itself, more likely to be a cable problem as it can be subject to all sorts of trauma. Look at page 35.

Finally some good news on charging the FFR Lightweight Batteries.

This morning I proved the continuity on the spare shunt box cable I acquired this week so decided to look for U V output from the Mk 3 Generator panel acquired this week but found that although the current reached the post inside the box there was no output so maybe it can be repaired by fitting a new resistor as in All Charged Up?

Next I connected this cable to the tatty Mk 4 panel also part of this weeks' job lot and was amazed to get out put from U and V. Then removed the lid to see which points were live between the in and out UV connectors.

Next I looked under the floor at the vehicle Mk 4 Panel, removed the lid and checked for input from the shunt panel but there was none. Disconnected cable from shunt box to bench test wiring continuity from the yellow charge light connection needed for the exciting of the generator -- no continuity. so cable needs repair.

Next hooked up the tatty MK 4 panel to shunt box and then to generator on the vehicle over the door with spare cable, connected ignition light to shunt box and ignition light came on for the first time. Started the engine and got 25.8 to 26 volt charge at battery terminals - fantastic. Strangely after switching the engine off the ignition warning light came back on so don't know why? Also I only ran the engine for 4 or 5 minutes and the Generator got quite Hot near the cable socket is that normal?

It seems we are finally making some progress with all Clives' expertise -- Thankyou very much.

OK I'll try that -- on my back this time --.

 

When my generators were being tested I noticed they put a shield between the U and V pins to stop any short circuit to the outer ring of the cable socket.

OK I'll try that -- on my back this time --.

When my generators were being tested I noticed they put a shield between the U and V pins to stop any short circuit to the outer ring of the cable socket.

No need to remove it. It is better to test it in situ because a stretched connection or broken wire might seem to recover once the cable is flaccid. Place one prod into the female of the connector (ie generator end), then rig up the other prod to a long wire & connect it to the male connector (ie generator panel end) of the wire under test, if necessary with a small crocodile clip.

 

Also check there is no short-circuiting or even resistance leakage from U or V to earth or between U & V.

Yes a little silicon grease could improve the connections - thanks for suggestion.

http://www.satcure.co.uk/tech/silicone2.htm

Because I thought it would be better to have a MK 3 panel on the floor with the top off I have been using the "new cable" looped over the door. Following you advise I took the cable off the panel and checked the connectivity of U and V with a good result. On reassembly still no reading at generator cable terminal posts u and v.

I thought this ignition light feed issue could have been the problem all along so have reconnected all the original cables to the shunt panel and tried getting an out put from the Mk 4 Panel under the floor but so far without success --- but I have not checked the original cable for continuity as it is difficult to remove.

Yes but have you tested the continuity for each wire in the connecting harness supplying U & V from generator panel to generator?

 

The cable is easily damaged internaly or stretched so that wire to pin connections become unreliable.

 

You could temporarily hook up one of your new cables, & see what happens, but first test the U & V continuity in that.

The last week has been a steep learning curve on 24v Land Rovers and I'm still scratching the surface. Originally knowing that the vehicle would not charge my mindset was switch to 12v or to 24v using a Defender Alternator with built in regulator as I had read about the Mk4 generator panel and thought it very complicated.

Unfortunately I did not read your excellent book All Charged Up from the outset which answers so many questions with photographs and diagrams as I did not imagine repairing the existing system.

However contributor Roxy and your good self said I should at lease try to get it charging thru the old system to keep it as original as possible for future value and interest in Historic Vehicles.

The fact that the ignition light never worked is now critical as the supply from that to the generator panel and thence the Generator Tickles the Alternator to get it to work as I see from your book. One of the white wires from the ignition switch at the fuse box connection has partly cooked so I have directly connected a wire from the fuse box terminal to the back of the charge/ignition light (which still does not work) and thence thru the brown and white wire to the yellow wire in the shunt box which is receiving current when the ignition switch is on.

Even with the power to the yellow wire in the shunt box nothing seems to reach the U V pins.

I have reconnected the MK4 Panel as was but still nothing at U V so I am wondering what feature in the Generator Panel blocks the current on the out put side?

You need to do a continuity test for each wire supplying U & V from generator panel to generator.

 

See post #2

Hello Clive

Just been rechecking the U and V field winding connectors on the panel to generator cable with ignition on but there does not seem to be any voltage reading at all?

when you refer to page 23 of what please?

That's the bargain of the century!

 

That sounds promising, just by energising the field winding & spinning by hand you can see if you get output to some degree. (In fact I have been doing the same to a Generator No.2 - this is a dynamo though with a gearbox & it cannot be spun but by more than half a revolution even that can produce some output)

 

These readings are rather high & should really be 14.5 – 15.5 ohms. Take the average of at least three readings at different rotational points of the spindle. Also slowly rotate the spindle whilst measuring the resistance, if it jumps all over the place then the brushes are worn or there is grot, corrosion, pitting or grooving on the slip rings. High resistance or intermittent contact means a reduced magnetic field so less output, remember on a dynamo the field winding is on the outside but on an alternator the field winding is in the rotating bit (rotor)

 

Not really unless you can get the resistance down by spinning them for a while to try & shift any grot. If you still get high readings, take the generator with the most consistent readings & remove the end cover & inspect the brushes & slip rings clean or replace as necessary. It is quite easy to access the end, see page 23.

How does 50 quid the lot sound! (these were not known to be Land Rover parts by the vendor).

I think they may have only checked the main output but did have the field wiring connected to their control panel. So I now realise what u and v are and checked the resistance on the original generator at 43.7. One of the Mk2s gives a reading of 112 with some buzzing on the meter not present on the original alternator still fitted to the car. Does this indicate it would be worth changing to one of the new generators?

Well Charles you've cornered the market on spares! Whatever the package cost you, the generator to generator panel cable is listed as £600, so I imagine you have done alright on the deal.

 

This is important to establish that there is voltage coming through the cable from the generator panel to energise the field winding. The resistance measurement on the generator is equally important to establish there is continuity through the field winding & that the brushes are facilitating this.

 

That's good news, I wonder how they did that without the generator panel & I hope they tested the output from the auxiliary diodes not just the main output diodes.

 

You should be getting that irrespective of whether a generator panel is connected or not.

 

There is no connection from shunt box to generator.

 

It won't effect the ignition warning light. The generator Mk 2 & Mk 3 connections are identical, the outputs are the same except that the auxiliary diodes in the Mk 3 can deliver a higher current than those in a Mk 2. The warning light issue only occurs when using a different generator panel in an installation & shunt box designed for another panel.

Hello Clive

Further to this suggestion I could not get any voltage from the disconnected cable or measure the resistance of the Generator but this could be due to my multimeter or not being sure about pin U and V

Meanwhile I have bought three new generators albeit Mk2 + 2 MK 4 Generator Panels with cable because they were a package of parts. I have had all three generators professionally bench tested and all perfect but the two Mk 4 Panels are as unknown as the one fitted to the vehicle.

On getting home I wired the 'new' generator panel to the shunt box and have 23.7v at connection on right hand side of shunt box cable A. Also connected to existing Mk3 Generator but there is still no charge on running the engine. Nor is there any life from the ignition light. Disconnecting from the Generator I am not finding any power from the shunt box reaching this plugin connector.

Next step is to try one of the proven MK2 Generators thru either of these Generator Panels but realise that this will not help the ignition light which is different on the MK2.

This reminds me you did suggest checking T4 in the panel. Now that the 'new' panel is on the floor connected to earth via the battery -ve I could take the top off and look for T4.

Rgds. Charles

Yes it doesn't seem a very sensible place to put it. Exposed all the wet muck from the ground & then it hampers access to do any testing or maintenance. Although in service I expect it was just pulled off & another fitted, then if it still didn't work the generator or cabling got changed.

 

In the meantime I would do those tests for voltage (ign on & engine off) on the cable connector at the Generator at pins U & V. Then the resistance measurement (ign off) directly on the pins U & V on the Generator.

Clive

Thanks for all your help on this if the generator panel was not under the floor life would be easier.

As it is I need to figure out which wire is attached to T4 run the motor with a third party helper, not here at the moment, and then do Generator checks so maybe tomorrow.

Thanks Charles.

Page 91 of ACU lower diagram

 

+ve lead to T4

-ve lead to Earth.

 

If no reading disconnect connector on Generator. You need to test the field winding in the Generator & its supply. With ignition on you should get a reasonable voltage on pin U & V of the cable connector.

 

If that is ok measure the resistance of pins U & V on the Generator. Should be appx 15 ohms but will fluctuate a bit if you rotate the pulley. If no reading most likely the carbon brushes need to be replaced. Alternatively there was an apparently working Generator on e bay for £20 yesterday.

I had high hopes for that idea as a dodgy earth was quite likely but no change I am sorry to say.

OK I will try a cable directly from Negative terminal to generator panel casing and run her up again.

OK I will try a cable directly from Negative terminal to generator panel casing and run her up again.

That is very strange because assuming the +ve supply your are feeding to the bulb is the same +ve supply that is going to the ignition switch then the bulb is getting 24v +ve at both ends of it when you switch the ignition on & irrespective of what the contact breaker is doing.

 

Yes & the ignition is drawing 3A appx. Yes so definitely not charging.

 

I think that was just a change in a seal.

 

This very very important, the -ve rail from the Generator is not earthed. In earlier Gen Panels -ve was still floating above earth then earthed at the shunt box.

 

However in the Gen Panel Mk 4 the -ve rail is connected to the case earth so it is absolutely crucial that the Gen Panel has a good earth. Whilst it is undergoing testing to reassure yourself that you have a good earth run a stout cable from the Gen Panel direct to the -ve terminal of the earthier battery.

Your problem may be caused just by that! :-D

Have now removed generator panel cover to tighten the stud having earth wire attached --- no change to no charge. Interior of panel looks very clean with no sign of anything ever being disturbed. No i.d. on cover but it has socket on the side and a white plastic box in the centre which is the regulator module I think. Where would you test to see if there is any generator input?

Have now checked that once ignition light brown/yellow wire from shunt box to ignition light is connected to +ve the light stays on with engine ignition switched on or off.

 

Battery voltage is 23.7 engine ignition off falls to 23.3 when engine running at any speed then picks back up to 23.6 when engine stopped. assume starter caused some drain.

 

Looking under the floor at panel the stud at one corner which has earth strap attached is loose so I need to attend to that.

 

Generator is Mk3, There is no serial number but a cross thru' the 1 on the name plate.

Have now checked that once ignition light brown/yellow wire from shunt box to ignition light is connected to +ve the light stays on with engine ignition switched on or off.

Battery voltage is 23.7 engine ignition off falls to 23.3 when engine running at any speed then picks back up to 23.6 when engine stopped. assume starter caused some drain.

Looking under the floor at panel the stud at one corner which has earth strap attached is loose so I need to attend to that.

Generator is Mk3, There is no serial number but a cross thru' the 1 on the name plate.

I assume that is with the ignition switched off & you are applying +ve volts to the bulb where the yellow lead would have been attached. It should only illuminate if the contact breaker happens to be closed.

 

If you still have it connected like that when you switch on the ignition, the bulb should extinguish.

 

The reason that I am making a fuss about the warning light circuit is that it has two functions. One is the reassurance that the bulb glowing & then extinguishing shows output has come from the generator.

 

The other more important function is that at switch-on it supplies via the bulb the +ve supply to the field winding to create a magnetic field. For practical purposes, unlike a dynamo, an alternator has no residual magnetism so this has to come from the field winding. When the alternator is running the auxiliary diodes supply this voltage, but at start up the field winding has to be "tickled" by an existing supply.

 

Once the alternator is producing output for the vehicle/radios via one set of diodes (2 x 3), the auxiliary diodes (1 x 3) supply the field winding the voltage produced matches the voltage supplied to the bulb from the ignition supply. As there is no longer a "potential difference" the bulb extinguishes & the performance of the tickling circuit falls away.

 

This leads me to a further question, the Generator No.10 should be a Mk 3, ideally a late version of it, earlier Mks have auxiliary diodes that are not up to the job as they have an increased role with the transistorised regulator. I have seen mismatched generators & panel that seem to work, but it is pushing your luck to use a generator of type with under-rated diodes.

 

Probably not but it would depend where the fault was.

Hi -- no I bought from a fella who was going to convert to V8 then changed his mind but hadn't worried about 24v set up as he intended to change everything. All looks original with correct Mk3 generator, under floor Mk 4 panel, shunt box with one ammeter etc.

QUOTE - thought restoring this one which I rescued from being converted to V8 should not be a problem. The owner told me it was not charging but it has two new batteries fully charged to make it driveable even has MOT until September 8. The plan is to change to galv. chassis but the 24v system is an issue I had not counted on or understand.

----

So - the engine is a V8 , can you show a photograph of the engine bay - I fear a jury rig and therefore have doubts about the drive belt(s) , lack of traction grip - then you will have generating problems as soon as you start to load up.

I doubt if the hand-throttle is connected up ?

It would have been fantastic for you to run some checks but Staffordshire is a long way from you.

The ignition light only works by connecting the wire separated from the yellow lead directly to a battery.

Over the last two years I have been restoring a 15 year standing under a tree series 3 to useable condition now sold and having previously owned 2 Lightweights directly ex MOD thought restoring this one which I rescued from being converted to V8 should not be a problem. The owner told me it was not charging but it has two new batteries fully charged to make it driveable even has MOT until September 8. The plan is to change to galv. chassis but the 24v system is an issue I had not counted on or understand.

Is it possible that running it without charging is the same as not being connected to the batteries which will ruin the generator?

I will get a voltmeter to check if there is any charge but feel there is not and let you know.

I understand what you are saying. That yellow wire provides the earth return for the ignition warning light that is powered by the supply to the coil so that it illuminates when the engine is not running. It should extinguish when the voltage from the yellow wire matches that of the supply from the ignition supply with the engine running.

 

Although with the engine running you have no voltage reading on that yellow wire that comes from the Gen Panel. But this does not necessarily indicate the Gen Panel itself is at fault it could be a problem in the Generator or the interconnecting cables.

 

With the ignition on but engine not running does the bulb illuminate?

 

You say the Gen Panel does not work, is that based on the fact that there is no voltage (when running) on the yellow wire or do you have absolutely no increase in voltage on the batteries when you rev.

 

Someone having been inside the Gen Panel might be a bad thing because they have meddled/bodged or it may simply mean they had a problem & simply peered in saw no dramatic fault then closed it up again.

 

You may derive some satisfaction from removing the original system as it is being a pain & it is your vehicle so you can do whatever you feel you need to do, but thinking about the value of the vehicle long-term, modifications particularly electrical ones can be a real turn-off for a potential buyer as originality brings an enhanced value particularly FFR vehicles like this that are becoming increasingly rare in their original configuration.

 

Your profile doesn't give your location but if you are near me, I could run a few basic tests for you if you like.

Thanks for pointing this out which shows that I do not understand the principles.

In terms of Why I think the panel is duff there is no output even for the ignition light coming from the yellow wire off the panel to a bullet connector in the Shunt Box. Also it looks like someone has had the cover off and I guess I would just like to bypass it and am still wondering if a Defender FFR radio battery generator which is in working order and has its own regulator built in would be fine on my Lightweight or if there is some reason why it should not be tried?

If you were trying to measure the voltage output it would not work because when you remove the connector you will remove the voltage to the field winding.

 

Why?

It's very good to get so many suggestions to my question thanks all.

The trouble shooting suggestion is best for originality but I don't have the knowledge to test the alternator as there are dire warnings of running the engine with no connection to the battery so if I remove the plug at the engine end to apply a multimeter it would not be good? I feel sure the Generator MK4 transistorised is the root of the problem but its inaccessible under the floor to check if relay is stuck or what ever.

Changing the Alternator to 12 volt to charge the 24volt system per the wiring diagram sent to me is something I did not know was a possibility -- very interesting.

Finally my Monster FV1068364 alternator reconditioned for MOD and intended to charge the 24volt Batteries on a Defender FFR is sitting looking at me on the garage floor - this would fit instead of my FV760740 on the bracket and use the same pulley. The connections Batt 1 and Batt 2 are supposed to be connected to the positive terminals of each 12v battery according to one diagram I have seen. But I have never seen or heard of this being done??

Thanks again for your ideas.

Thanks for your reply. I agree with you that are second hand MK 4 generator panels out there but the transistorised voltage regulator is very specialised in terms of checking if it works and I don't need to split the charge between the vehicle batteries and the radio batteries. So from your experience it seems that any regulated output 24v generator should work OK.

My LLR charging system is u/s and as the cost of a Mk4 Generator panel at !000 pounds is too much for me I have been looking at alternatives. Being under the floor also increases the aggravation of working on or changing the panel.

I do have a reconditioned Defender 24v 90 amp Generator FV1068364 and wonder if this could be used to directly charge my two 12volt batteries instead of the original No 10 Mk3 FV760740 to Mk 4 Generator Panel set-up?

Alternatively some Toyota Land Cruisers have 24v 30 amp regulated output alternators which could be fitted to the Series 3 12volt bracket.

Or change everything to 12volt.

All comments gratefully received.

Hi Everyone

Being a semi retired Golf Widow another tatty Land Rover to improve seemed a good plan so just bought Lightweight previously 43-KC-80 which is closely related to Monty Don's vehicle being a 1984 series 3.

Over 50 years and 13 Land Rovers of which 2 were LL from MVS in Fradley I'm now faced with 24v and underfloor MK4 Generator Panel which was quite unexpected and does not work.

So seeking advice!

Cheers

CharlieC