uw167

Hello Charlie.

I have been reading again sbout the Matador rebuild. Have you any later photos?

Thanks. John Harrington

Hello Charley

How is the restoration progressing?

One and probably both chassis numbers you list went to Australia post war from Murphy of Leicester UK who exported about 200 ex army vehicles. 

On 9/11/2014 at 7:09 PM, wally dugan said:

my interest in matadors is really confined to those used by the british army this was brought about while collecting the records of the british armys vehicles wartime and postwar while the curator of army transport l was asked by the AEC PRESERVATION SOCIETY if they could use the records to compile a record and also they at that time had access to the AEC archives the information was subjected to verification by all interested parties to ensure that is as accurate as possible

the first attachment is from the records the second shows the contract VM 11373 and it contained chassis numbers

08535292 to 08536579

 

REGARDS WALLY

Now I can see the listings but I am not sure why! Great to see these documents.

 

I am still hunting buses & coaches sold off after the end of WWII since impressed vehicles were not returned to their original operators but appear to have been sold off presumably via the auctions. Finding information on this seems almost impossible.

 

 

 

The registrations give clues. GXD/GLU were mostly Bedford OWBs but included others re-registered. HYV were mostly reregistered frequently having a WD identity as well. GXA/GXN/GXO were re registered for the NFS. The Middlesex O registrations were all ex military and included WD vehicles with military first owners. Dodges and Fordsons. GLK had some Chevrolets for the Pool Board. Most of the non-London regs are original.

The MoT chose the Mack as the vehicle for a fleet of snow plough lorries. There were only 6 in use before then. THe MoT built up a fleet of 200 while a similar number were bought directly by county councils for a grant-aided £700. Most operated in Scotland where Aberdeen had the largest fleet while Isle of Ely only bought one. MoT vehicles had London registrations [HYR etc.] while the councils had local ones.

Following my research into Wynns vehicles, I have found a reference to wing numbers on the first two Pacifics. They wre sold at Longcross so could be FVRDE. They were 3401 on 30XF37 and 4100 on 30XF44. 700 gap between two similar vehicles does not make much sense. Observations welcome. Thanks.

I have no record for 5547. Could it be 5542? Sent to Australia as chassis/cab via Murphy Bros of Leicester. I have 154 chassis recorded as going to "AEC Australia via MB"

Murphy was the same family as the road contractors.

The census numbers or registrations are intriguing. Most RAF vehicles pre-war appear to have carried normal registrations in the Middlesex series. Probably the increase in numbers required the new RAFxxxx series. Tis numbering does not appear to have been in order of age. There are many batches of vehicles, probably numbered on delivery. However there also seems to have been some "backfilling". I have discussed the idea that numbers were issued to those already with Middlesex plates. Some vehicles post war still carried these registrations and the sale lot numbers refer to them. The Crossley FT at the museum had one. Could the presence of something already on the plate have meant that the new census number was put on the door?

HYO was a London registration series. Most of the records I have for HYO are Forestry Commission.

Trevor - the early Wynns FWDs appear to be CU-COEs. I have no record of any surviving into later timber work. The ones most commonly noted were the FDW ones. These were fitted with MAT bodies. Will look to see if earlier ones are LHD. I was old by Maurice Saunders that many CUs had Southampton area regs because they were imported there???

Can't help with these but any Macks or Matador information would be welcome. I wonder if this info is in other documents. What was the letter code for these?

John Harrington

Welch had a WLF pre nationalisation.

It ran from BRS Foxton until sale to Wynn's. It was used to rebuild one of Wynn's later WLFs. Registered GER880.

Can you read the registration on the original? It is likely to be one of the later purchases - bought from the MoT when they were replaced by Atkinsons [the chassis makers not the gritters]

The photo shows one of the eight [HUP211-18] operated by Durham County Council. Which one have you got?

"Annie's" registration was GGG812. I have a photo in Tarmac livery. On my visits to Edinburgh I have tried several Tarmac sites but no-one j=knows where it went.

It probably started life as a snowplough but GGG records don't exist and I have found no record of Glasgow buying Macks.

Still odd things turn up so I will keep going.

FDW533/185 was registered in June 1949. It is looking the worse for wear when seen here in Swansea with the Welsh-designed Apollo prototype! Following is Ward La France FDW216/206.

Do you think that is just steam in the background?

A posed shot of FDW61/66 in the general area of where the future BRS Newport depot would be. FDW61 become 1G30 with BRS and lasted until 1951. The Wynns GS Fodens are the only ones I can find in the Western BRS fleets.

Third registered was EDW868/165 registered in August 1948.

The professional photo was taken by a company in Andover - date unknown. KDW560 is following.

Taking a break now to travel.

Looking through my Wynns fleet list at the ones that got away:-

Guy Ant/Quad Ant tippers - there was a photo on the office wall in the old company building

20 - a USN Dodge ambulance used as a service van. Painted blue

271 - An AEC O854 Royal Navy tanker, also blue, used at the NCB works.

Two Crossley tackle wagons and finally

A Ford half track bought in 1947 from Tydesley Garages and probably used on timber work in Mid Wales

The second registered Diamond T, EDW96/161 also registered May 1947.

Looking back I thought I might be able to find most of the Diamond Ts

This is EDW95/160 first registered in May 1947.

Just passed a modern silver car with NGY 631 reg. This looks very much like an old Ministry of Supply vehicle registration plate. Just out of curiosity I would like to know if anyone has records showing to which vehicle it was first allocated.

NGY631 was a Ministry of Works Land Rover Hard-top.

O853 5424 was new c4/43 as H4951805, later 03YZ74. It was a standard M.A.T. in the contract VM11373.

It was a timber crane after demob - registered UFU187H by F Haynes in Lincs 9/7/70. It was at one time fitted with an 11.3 engine and operated around the Northants area. The last record I have of it is in Bingley. Where is it now?

Les

I have the Fodens as DG10s from the chassis records. I will check again.

The first Diamond T came from Scimmons [unclear] and Sons 4/3/47. A month later four more arrived from Diamond T Motors.

The first two xwd vehicles were Scammells 135/6 on 1st July 1946.

John

I have been looking for a good picture of one of the Karrier tackle wagons but so far this is the best I've found. They are in the background of some early photos. Always hidden behind a WLF!

The Nubians replaced them and then the Matadors. There were three registered from 1948 to 1953. [EDW710, HDW249 and JDW621]It's likely they were bought together because EDW911 was to have been another but was cancelled at that time.

Is this the "GS" model?

This was probably the last military vehicle owned by Wynns. It was the Wrekin Roadways tackle wagon and passed to the new Stafford-based company. It probably didn't last long as Wynns themselves had bought new Bedfords for the work.

This is a South Wales Argus shot from Wynns' centenary parade. Their two Lorain cranes are leading a Matador timber drag. WDW882/187 was registered 3/61 to Wynns Engineering Ltd. PDW504/268 in August 1958. Not sure which models these were - any ideas?

The Matador LUW348/223 is an interesting 1953 acquisition from Pickfords. It was a ballast tractor in Manchester and was among nine vehicles acquired. It was rebuilt by Nash and Morgan and was one of three Mats used on timber work.

The parade has just passed Wynns Shaftesbury Street yard.