MilitantGraham

I've got no photos (not allowed) only my memory to go on.

All the 6x6 tankers I drove had the push button auto box like the wrecker.

Come to think of it now, I don't remember seeing any 6x6 cargo trucks, only 4x4 and 8x8.

Mind you, I only got to drive maybe a couple of hundred trucks out of an order for 8000, so there could well be variants I never saw.

I never had any reason to operate the diff locks or PTO either, so I'm not that familiar with the switches.

The 6x6 tanker and 8x8 wrecker towing a Foden in the pictures you posted don't appear to have the holes on the doors and cab which I think are for fixing the armour. The pictures on page 4 of this thread also show a different winch rope end to the ones I saw. It also looks like the crane hook is hanging loose when I remember the hook dropping in to a box with the crane stowed to stop it swinging around. I guess there must be some slight differences between the trial and production versions.

I thought that was four diff lock switches in the middle which would make it an 8x8.

Looking again, the one on the left looks like a PTO switch which would make it a 6x6 with a crane.

8 wheel cargo truck going by the diff lock switches and rotary gear shift switch.

The armour is not fitted at Aschurch.

OK, maybe I assumed too much from the litle bit of information I have.

I'm a truck mechanic at a MAN dealer. I got sent to Ashchurch for a while because they needed someone with an HGV licence to drive the new trucks in and out of the workshop. Even though it is private land, the army insist on anyone driving a vehicle on the depot roads having the correct licence.

One of my jobs was to drive a wrecker to another building to "have the armour fitted". I parked it outside and walked in to tell them it was there.

I never actually saw any vehicles enter or leave the building, they obviously weren't churning them out the way we were with the PDIs, although there was one bar armoured MAN parked outside.

If the armour is fitted at NP Aerospace, then maybe the guys at Ashchurch were doing some sort of preliminary work ready to have it fitted. I'm only going on what I was told and what looked like a Mastiff having armour fitted in their workshop.

I was told the windscreen story by one of the other MAN mechanics. Two other guys were with us and laughed about the two passengers getting soaked as the water came in. I don't think any of them were at DVD, they must have heard from someone who was.

Isn't LOLER just for lifting equipment though ?

Military snatch blocks and shackles normally have "For Recovery Use Only" marked on them to make it clear they do not meet the 5:1 safety factor required for lifting equipment.

Compare a miltary recovery 15t bow shackle with a regular 15t shackle. The one intended for lifting is designed to hold a static load of at least 75t without deforming and is huge compared with the recovery one which has a much lower safety factor.

There probably is a testing standard for recovery equipment, but as I have never done it professionally, I have never come across it.

We have everything from trolley jacks and axle stands to vernier calipers and torque wrenches tested and certified at work so I would imagine there's a similar process for winch ropes and equipment.

Like so many things, that phrase "hire and reward" must come in to it. You can winch your mates truck out of a mud hole for free, but once you start charging or employing people you will need all sorts of certificates, qualifications and insurance.

The confusion over winch capacities isn't helped by the makers of cheap and nasty winches and tow ropes claiming a 2 tonne "rolling load" capacity.

Going by the figures Mike posted above and in the REME manual, a 2t rolling load on a hard level surface with all the tyres inflated needs less than 100kg of force to get it moving. Hence my earlier comment about one person being able to push a Land Rover.

I can't answer the original question, but are you sure you've got that right about the breakaway cable ?

Surely the reason the cable or chain should not be attached to the tow ball is that if the tow ball mounting bolts shear and the tow ball falls off, the cable will go with it and not operate the trailer brakes.

There's no way those little breakaway cables are intended to keep a 3500kg trailer attached to a vehicle after the tow hitch has failed.

By having the cable attached to another part of the vehicle it will pull the trailer brakes on, before breaking itself.

All the information you need is here.

http://www.aecmilitant.co.uk/downloads/recoverymanual.pdf

There's nothing like a discussion about winching to bring out misunderstandings and old wives tales.

A military 15t snatch block is rated at 15t per line. It can be used to give a 3:1 pull with a 15t winch for a total of 45t.

If you need a 30t winch to move a 30t tank, how come I can push a 2t Land Rover ?

I wouldn't worry about getting a snatch block tested, just a visual check for obvious damage.

Have you had the U bolts and shackle pins connecting your axles to your truck porofessionally tested ? The consequences of failure are far more serious.

The armour is fitted at Ashchurch. They get driven in, but I don't know if they get driven or low loadered out.

I've heard conflicting reports of the price now. They may only be £650k for the standard wrecker and £1m for the armoured version.

I've also heard that one entered the wading area a bit fast at the DVD show. The bow wave travelled across the pond, hit the far bank, bounced back, hit the front of the truck and pushed the windscreens out of their rubbers flooding the cab.

The front axles are coil sprung, the rears are hydraulic.

The chassis is box section.

Cost new, £700 000, fully armoured, £1.2 million

86 ET 73 used to belong to Rob Willson.

For a couple of years, about 4 or 5 years ago, it was parked about 200 yards from where mine was where I was working at the time, on the same industrial estate near Pontypool.

This is what it looked like back then.

I think the official figures were 30mph & 38mph, which matches up wuth radiomike's equation.

Mine would do 33mph on 7.9 diffs, timed against motorway marker posts, so the 6.25s should be good for 40mph.

Nice to see a mixture of RHD Mk1s & LHD Mk3s together in service.

That looks like a Scammell A frame propped up against the spare wheel in the bottom N.I. picture.

On the subject of mismatched diffs...

I met a guy from Gloucestershire once who told me he used to take loads of timber up to Scotland with a Matador.

The Matador had the normal 7.9:1 diffs in it, but before making the empty return journey he would fit a 6.25:1 high speed diff in the rear.

The rear diff on a Matador sits on top of the axle. With simple lifting gear it's only a matter of removing about 30 bolts or nuts to change it, there's no need to drain the oil.

Once back in Gloucestershire he would refit the low speed diff ready for the loaded trip North.

Cars are all tubeless nowadays. Try somewhere that deals with commercial, plant and agricultural tyres as they are more likely to mix and match tubed and tubeless.

No video, but the only picture I've got of a brand new Militant outside the AEC factory is mine, 86 ET 79.

The only picture I've got a Militant in normal service with it's front wheels off the ground is also mine while towing a Martian.

And another one on parade at an unknown occasion.

Thanks for the info. I guessed they would have recovery versions of battle tanks.

I was thinking more of everyday transport, getting tanks from one battlefield to another.

I've seen pictures of Pioneers and Diamond Ts moving tanks by road to keep up with an advancing army. How did the Germans do the same ?

The old Michelin XLs as fitted to AEC and Foden recovery vehicles are rated at 40mph.

I think the later XZLs are rated at 50mph, although I'm more guessing than remembering that.

There have been pictures posted on here recently of Diamond Ts and Rogers trailers overloaded with German tanks. I've also seen pictures of Diamond Ts double heading King Tigers and the like.

The pictures usually attract comments about how good Diamond Ts are to cope with these overweight loads, but I can't help wondering how the German Army used to move these tanks around themselves.

Surely with the number of 50+ tonne tanks they had in service, transporting them from one place to another must have been a matter of routine, not the one off exception that it was for the Allies.

So how did they do it ?

I have never seen pictures of a German equivalent of a Diamond T or Pacific.

Was there such a truck or did they use rail transport then track the tanks all the way to battle from the station ?

The standard Mk1 bumper is recessed in in the middle which makes it harder to couple on to a trailer and significantly reduces the available lock when suspend towing with an A frame. Maybe these were modified to make it easier as they are training vehicles.

The towing hitches look standard, they have just rotated. One's upside down and the other is on its side.

I found this on a Land Rover forum which should help.

http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=3789

Hi Steve. Nice to have another Matador owner here. I sold mine to buy a Militant.

http://aec.middx.net/victory/001.htm

 

Link to electronic "Contribution to Victory"

 

AEC's Official wartime History, for those who haven't managed to get hold of a copy....

Or here, all in one easy to read PDF and without the bingo pop up.

That's the one with the male dummy thread for storing the cap below it.

The two pin socket is probably for the trailer tail light.

Before the days of standardised 7 pin plugs, brake lights and indicators, two pins were all that was needed for the trailer's single tail light.

Tha large aluminium socket does sound like the one for Warner electric brakes that Mike mentions.

Is the cap about 4" diameter with indentations around the edge for grip.

Is there a dummy male thread next to it to store the cap when the socket is in use ?

Are there 4 connections on the back, if you can see them ?

The four pins are;

earth

tail light

brake light

brake operation

If the vehicle is fitted for towing electrically braked trailers it will have a large variable resistor, a bit like a Scalextric car controller, connected to the brake pedal.

It may have the socket without the resistor just for operating the lights on air braked trailers.