Mainfranken

Hello,

maybe a Moderator could move the Thread to

• Archaeology - WW1 to the end of the cold war  forum - thats maybe more useful.

Thank you john1950

I think the story that goes with any artifact is the most important thing. Without the story behind it, it's just a lifeless piece of metal, wood or paper.

Hello,

this thread is about the B-17F-15-BO # 42-30727 'FIGHTIN' BITIN' and its crew - they belonged to the 367th "Clay Piegeons" Bomb Squadron of 306th Bomb Group.

They were shot down on the 2nd Schweinfurt-Raid on 14th Ocotber 1943,  from Feldwebel Emil Schmelzingers Bf109G-6 from "9. Staffel of Jagdgeschwader 1 "

The bombers of the 306th Bomb Group took off from Thurleigh airfield and got attacked by 300 german fighters over Germany.

In the Frankfurt area 'FIGHTIN' BITIN' - the pilot was 1st Lt. William C Bisson -   got heavy attacked by german fighters with 20mm shells and rockets - the bombers speed slowed and they had to get out of the formation -  at around 2.00 PM the 1st engine started to burn and they got several 20mm-hits in the bow of the bomber. 

The bombardier 1st Lt. Joseph W. Lukens  got  badly injured. The instruments didnd´t react anymore on the 1st and the 2nd engine - the 2nd engine was damaged and sounded like a washing machine.  Both engines were knocked out. The rudder didnt react anymore, it has been hit by a rocket. About 2.15PM the pilot give the order to bail out.

The bow-door already missed at this time. The tail was heavily riddled and seconds later the bomber broke in half.

The back crashed int a field and the front part in a small wood around the small village Höhefeld (15 miles west of Würzburg)  , the wood started to burn.

Five crewmembers could bail out and become POW:

Co-Pilot: 2nd Lt. Chas Stafford (with broken leg)

Radio Operator: T/Sgt. John McLellan

Ball turret gunner: S/Sgt.  Dick Vader

Waist gunner: S/Sgt. Peter Giovanni

Waist gunner:  S/Sgt.Constantine Lamb

The men get captured by german soldiers and brought to the Fliegerhorst Wertheim, where they get provided and treated. After tha,t they came to the interrogation-camp in Oberursel and later to Stalag Luft 1 Barth-Vogelsang in Prussia , a POW Campf for Air Force members. After liberation of the camp they came to the "Lucky Strike Camp" in Le Havre ,where they get  collected and asked about comrades, before shipping home.

The other crew members were killed in action,

they couldnt bail out, except 2nd Lt.Young , he bailed out, but died of wounds at Kembach, a village near Höhefeld

Pilot: 1st Lt. Bill Bisson

Navigator: 2nd Lt. George Young

Bombardier: 1st Lt. Joe Lukens (he had already survived two crash-landings before)

Flight engineer/top turret gunner: T/Sgt.  Ed Osep

Tail gunner: S/Sgt. Thompson Wilson

2nd Lt. Young was first buried in Kembach - the other for men were buried in Höhefeld.

Later the graves of 1st. Lt. Bisson, 1st Lt. Lukens and S/Sgt. Thompson  were relocated to the Lorraine American Cemetery Saint Avold / France .

The graves of 2nd Lt. Young and T/Sgt. Osep were relocated in the USA.

The wreckage was scraped, some weeks after the crash.

I was at the crashplace of 'FIGHTIN' BITIN' and could find some relics, nothing special, most of the wreckage was scraped in wartime -

but theyre parts of history and they witnessed the events of October 14th, 1943.

Please excuse my english, im not used to it.

More information about bomber and crew:

http://www.americanairmuseum.com/aircraft/4752

Missing Air Crew Report 817.

Source pic of the 'FIGHTIN' BITIN'

https://b17flyingfortress.de/en/b17/42-30727-fightin-bitin/42-30727/

The frontwheels of the german "Generatorwagen M-16" look similiar but theyre much bigger. about h the double size.

https://www.oupsmodel.com/vehicules-militaire-135/75110-plus-model-514-generatorwagen-m-16-wehrmacht-135.html

Some new photos, the "red dots"  are painted on a flat cirular surface -  about 22mm

There is also some letters - I think its french " côté opposé" and something like 31 or 81 BAX  or "BIBAX"

at the bottom are some numbers, but hard to read. côté opposé means "opposite side"

The other one has no visible markings.

So it seems to be french...

Hello Gordon_M,

yes it could be something  like that , thank you for your answer - in Germany these wheels are called "Triplex" or "K-Rad"  - usually they were made of cast iron and very massive. Now I have to find a verhicle that fits

 some new photos,   the wheels have red painted dots/markings around the wheel ...

tomorrow Im going to remove the rust

Hello,

I will clean them this week, they were in rainwater for 2 weeks , to soak.

We found lots of these parts next to the wheels, theyre massive and heavy. Maybe they can help ...

Of course they could be from another vehicle, but who knows... The scale in in centimeter

greetings Toni

Hello David,

thanks for your answer, your opinion makes sense. It could theoretically also be a loot vehicle, we also had French, Czech and Russian parts of vehicles or artillery there ...It will be difficult to find out where it belongs....

First we thought it would be a farming machine, but the red,grey and sandcolors say clearly Wehrmacht.

Toni

Hello,

my name is Toni, im from Germany, living in the area between Frankfurt and Würzburg.

I found two of these "wheels" - I think theyre sprockets /driving wheels from a german halftrack - but I couldnt find any verhicle thats fits 100%.

The wheel has red, grey and sandcolored remains on it, it was found on a "vehicle collection point" near Frankfurt, where verhicles from the Wehrmacht, but also from wrecked US tanks or other verhicles were collected, to get srcaped later , or when useful for civilians, repaired and reissued.

Maybe someone can help me identify the wheels here?

Thank you and have a nice time

greetings Toni