WW1 Thornycroft restoration

[Old Bill]

Thanks Richard. These are actually double coil spring washers so the ends point upwards to dig into the nut. The Thackery washer is more of a flat spring to stop rattle. I have a few friends rummaging in their 'useful bits' boxes at the moment and we are hopeful of finding the remaining three.

 

Sorry for the scant postings recently. Normal service should now be resumed! Here is something to be going on with.

 

When I saw the broken engine at Old Warden in September, I spotted this wick-feed oil cup on top of the magneto drive. Well, that answered a question for me as to what went into the hole in ours!

 

 

Dad went to Beaulieu Autojumble and found one although it did have the wrong thread.

 

 

A quick rework in the lathe and a polish up.

 

 

Ready to fit the next time in Devon. ( I forgot to take it with me last time!)

 

 

Just going out to the shed. More later!

 

Steve

[BenHawkins]

And Father has been rumaging in the garage and found three as well so only three more needed! Thanks for that one Mick!

 

 

I have reopened negotiations with an Indian supplier and added 50 off 5/8 Thackery washers. Can't promise anything though.

[Old Bill]

We are generally pushing on with the controls now. Dad has picked up the castings for the quadrants but, amazingly, hasn't taken any photos of them! He did take a picture of the laser cut handbrake ratchet which has saved a lot of hand work.

 

 

He has also been painting some of the gear lever parts as well.

 

 

He has started to clean up the gear change quadrant. It still needs a good bit of filing due to the shortcomings in the pattern and the reverse stop needs some adjustment to suit the lever. Once this is done, it will be ready for engraving with the gear numbers.

 

 

 

 

He has drilled the bolt holes and also those for the handbrake quadrant. It is beginning to look quite good.

 

 

 

 

 

Of course, it needs a handbrake lever to fit. The one we have was very corroded around the quadrant and also bent. The press more or less sorted the bend out and our good friend Adrian, kindly built up the wasting with weld.

 

 

This has been dressed back and filled but requires a final tweak to the bend to make sure that it fits between the quadrants before final painting.

 

 

 

No pawl has survived so I have machined one up copying a very corroded one that we have.

 

 

 

I have also made a new pull-rod but cannot set the position of the pawl until it is trial-fitted, the next time in Devon.

 

 

Two new pivot pins have been turned up, 1/32" oversize to accommodate most of the wear, but the copper rivets are just dropped into the holes for trial purposes.

 

 

Finally, Father has turned up a new throttle pedal face.

 

 

I am giving the pedal shaft some attention at the moment but thoughts will shortly be turning towards the steering column. Always something to do!

 

Steve

[flandersflyer]

It might be possible to weld the sump but this old aluminium is very variable in properties. The chap who has it is very enterprising so I am sure he will find a way.

 

This is the lorry from which it came. I took this photo over twenty years ago in the Thornycroft factory yard. It is a completely original vehicle of 1919 and was still with the original owners at the time. It was later sold, about twelve years ago I think, and the new owner suffered the disaster the first time he tried to start it. Since then, it has been laid up in a shed until purchased earlier this year.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]118906[/ATTACH]

 

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What are all of the small pipes all over the engine?

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]118908[/ATTACH]

 

I am confident that it will now be repaired and run again although the owner rather has his hands full with other projects for the time being. We shall see in due course. The factory, by the way, has been demolished and turned into a supermarket. Shame!

 

Steve

 

And what was in that factory (I'm reliably informed) was this:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As you can see it's a radial drill to run off an old lineshaft arrangement and is part of my private collection.

 

I got it from Winchester and was informed it had originally been installed at Thornycroft's Basingstoke factory.

 

I have this piece down as 1900-1920

[Old Bill]

That's interesting. Several of the old Thornycroft machine tools ended up with the Hampshire County Council Museums Service and were used in their workshops when I volunteered there years ago. The HSE visited and had a fit which we thought was very unfair. Everything was appropriately guarded. The tools were just very old and were built with a different mindset from today. Oh well. Happy days.

 

Steve

[flandersflyer]

That's interesting. Several of the old Thornycroft machine tools ended up with the Hampshire County Council Museums Service and were used in their workshops when I volunteered there years ago. The HSE visited and had a fit which we thought was very unfair. Everything was appropriately guarded. The tools were just very old and were built with a different mindset from today. Oh well. Happy days.

 

Steve

 

Theres no drilling damage anywhere on the table...which would suggest a life set up for jigwork

 

Took nearly 3 hours to get it back to leeds

 

I've made Tony at lathesUK aware of its existence

Edited November 11, 2016 by flandersflyer

[Sean N]

Theres no drilling damage anywhere on the table...which would suggest a life set up for jigwork

 

Or a lifetime of use by people who were craftsmen and actually knew what they were doing...

[David Herbert]

Re the radial drill: any idea of its maker? I am sure it's not an Archdale but by 1912 they had done away with the belt drive across the top in favour of a shaft up the centre of the column, a pair of bevel gears and the speed selection box at the top and a splined shaft across to the saddle. In 1914 they moved the speed selection box into the saddle. At that point yours would have looked very old fashioned.

 

David

[andypugh]

As you can see it's a radial drill to run off an old lineshaft arrangement and is part of my private collection.

 

A vaguely similar machine is still in productive use with Keith Fenner:

 

 

(You can see the full majesty of the flat-belts at 23 minutes in)

Edited November 11, 2016 by andypugh

[flandersflyer]

Re the radial drill: any idea of its maker? I am sure it's not an Archdale but by 1912 they had done away with the belt drive across the top in favour of a shaft up the centre of the column, a pair of bevel gears and the speed selection box at the top and a splined shaft across to the saddle. In 1914 they moved the speed selection box into the saddle. At that point yours would have looked very old fashioned.

 

David

 

I can't find a makers name on it

 

But I have seen old images of a similar headstock arrangement on an ALFRED HERBERT coventry

[flandersflyer]

A vaguely similar machine is still in productive use with Keith Fenner:

 

 

(You can see the full majesty of the flat-belts at 23 minutes in)

 

Mr Fenner has a camelback drill

 

In fact he gives a good tutorial on flat belt lacing/stapling on one of his utube vids

 

I've got a staple setter for flat belts by the way....

[flandersflyer]

I'm sure it isn't an archdale

 

And it isn't an Asquith or a Fred town

 

Like I says....I'm going for an ALFRED HERBERT....but Tony at lathesUK has asked me to send pics so he can consult his references

 

I've got a G. Herbert donkeysaw (pre RAPIDOR MANCHESTER)

 

And a nice old south Bend lathe...a really good substantial one

 

I've a pillar drill that stands 7ft high and a couple of bench grinders....plus a horizontal miller

 

All lineshaft gear

[flandersflyer]

Now it gets exciting!

 

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"Hold on Roy whilst we get the tie bar fitted!"

 

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Looking good now. A face at last!

 

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We have an interesting problem here. The original low-level water spigot is too low and won't connect to the top casting. I shall have to either make a new one or, possibly, cut and weld this one. That would be a shame but would save me a lot of work. It is cast iron so welding will be a bit of a challenge so I will be seeking advice very shortly.

 

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Father had painted the brake cross-shaft so we fitted that and then went on to start on the linkage.

 

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As you can see, there is a very large gap in the clevis which was originally filled by a 5/8" bore Thackeray washer. Unfortunately, these have proven unobtainable. Dad has found some very short springs but their solid height is just too much. I could turn some spacers but they don't feel right either. Please may I have your thoughts?

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]119831[/ATTACH]

 

Not huge progress this weekend but very significant and quite a milestone for us. It is really beginning to look like a lorry now as all of the major lumps are in. We just have to join them together.

 

Watch this space!

 

Steve

 

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=thackeray+washers+uk&oq=thakerey+washers&aqs=chrome.2.69i57j0l3.8657j0j4&client=ms-android-motorola&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

[flandersflyer]

http://www.fastenerdata.co.uk/fasteners/washers/spring.html

 

http://www.ukbolt.co.uk/stainless-spring-washers-154-c.asp

 

https://www.ondrives.com/stainless-steel-coiled-spring-pins

 

http://www.springlockwashers.com/washers-for-industrial-use/double-coil-washers/

[Old Bill]

Many thanks for the links. Unfortunately, they all have double coil spring locking washers rather than the Thackery anti-rattle washers so they are shaped to bit in rather than just fill the space. One has some Thackery washers but they are all small and used predominently for carburettors.

 

Thanks for the suggestions though.

 

We will keep looking!

 

Steve :-)

[Old Bill]

Last weekend, I was fortunate to be in Devon again so the first thing to be done was to fit the wick feed oiler that I forgot to take last time!

 

 

Then it was time for a trial fit of the handbrake lever. This had to be adjusted in the press to get it to run between the quadrants after which I fitted the pawl onto the spindle to work out where it had to go.

 

 

 

 

This was silver soldered on and then polished before installing.

 

 

Not much room for a spring under there!

 

 

Next was an assembly of the gear change mechanism.

 

 

 

The quadrant had to be packed inboard to allow the lever to centralise.

 

 

Unfortunately, the neutral position is a bit further back than the quadrant allows so I will have to extend the slots rearward and adjust the central divider.

 

 

It is all looking promising though!

 

[rampant rivet]

Always enjoy a new installment in this restoration a credit to you all :-D

[Gordon_M]

It does look promising. You'll be ordering the wood for the seat and rear body any time now.

 

In the unlikely event that anyone isn't that impressed, go back to page 1 and look at what they started with. :cool2:

[Minesweeper]

Funny you should say that, Gordon- the timber for seat has been ordered and that will be the Christmas Break project - amongst other things!

 

Tony

[Gordon_M]

Wood welding ahoy then 8-)

 

Well, having followed my own advice and checked back through the thread, it looks to me that you should have a substantial amount of Thorny spare parts too - how far off Thorny number 2 are you? -or will you wisely parcel it up and hand it over to another enthusiast?

[Minesweeper]

Wood welding ahoy then 8-)

 

Well, having followed my own advice and checked back through the thread, it looks to me that you should have a substantial amount of Thorny spare parts too - how far off Thorny number 2 are you? -or will you wisely parcel it up and hand it over to another enthusiast?

 

 

 

There won't be a "Thorny No. 2" - certainly not enough to do that - and we are now pushing ourselves to get this one finished by 2018. You may recall that we pushed ourselves to finish the Dennis by 2014 - the centenary year of the commencement of WW1 and we thought that it would be pleasing if we could finish "Thorny" by the centenary year of the end of the War - and we shall have to go some to do that! We will give it our best shot! We are already giving the Peerless some thought as our "follow-on" project but it would be foolish to do anything to that until the "Thorny" is completed.

 

Tony

[brockwood]

Hi i have been following this with great interest as so much is the same or simmeler to our bb4 powered q our gear box has a central gear leaver but otherwise appears the same i missed the strip down of it we are missing the actual reverse gear it split and was removed and lost by the last owner what i was righting about throu is the mag drive oiler it looks the same as on the q on ours there was a drag in the motor which was traced to this the tip of the oiler extends

throu and into the ditance piece bush between the bearings and locates it ours had missed the hole and the shaft had drifted ford and was rubing on the cover also wasnt oiling as it was hard down on the outside ofthe bush

[Old Bill]

You are quite right in your description. Thornycrofts obviously hadn't got around to updating this part of the engine when they built yours! I have just been looking at your thread again and it is a most interesting project. Have you made any more progress? Replacing the reverse gear pinion shouldn't be too hard as they are only simple straight-cut gears. Ours has a plain bush in it so I expect yours is the same. Good luck with it. I am looking forward to seeing some more pics!

 

Steve :-)

[Old Bill]

Progress continues with a few efforts to reduce the number of outstanding patterns needed. Firstly, the fuel tank sump. We will need this before we can start on the tank.

 

 

Then the magneto advance shaft support.

 

 

 

These two will be gunmetal which is why I have done them together. They follow my normal methods of using MDF and car body filler along with some more of the wonderful flexible plywood. I did push its flexibility to the limits this time though!

 

 

 

A bit of broom handle turned to make the bearings.

 

 

This was glued in place as one piece to ensure that the ends remained in line after which the centre was removed and tidied up.

 

 

 

 

A bit of body filler dressed back and it was ready for painting.

 

 

The sump was an interesting exercise. The ends I turned and bored in the lathe before putting the ring through the bandsaw and joining them with straight bits.

 

 

 

 

Then dress to shape with the sander and glasspaper.

 

 

This is my first pattern with a loose piece.

 

 

 

After painting with Bondaprime and rubbing back with wire wool, I made sure that the loose piece could be removed freely. As you can see, with the split line on the bolting face, the pattern cannot be removed from the sand. I therefore created the loose piece with the locating peg arranged such that the top hat piece can be drawn straight upwards leaving the loose bit behind. That can then be drawn out at 45°.

 

 

 

At least, that is the theory! The patterns are now with Dad awaiting the next trip to the foundry.

 

Steve :-)

[Great War truck]

Moving on now to the Pedal Shaft and the Pedal Shaft Brackets – this will be another job very shortly out of the way.

 

The one very poorly Pedal Shaft in our possession was given to us many years ago by Ron T of Runcorn – Ron had recently completed the “J” which is now owned by the Hampshire County Museum Service and the handful of bits and pieces which he had left over after his restoration, he very kindly passed on to us. You will see from the picture that the Shaft needs some significant work on it to bring it back to life where one Pedal had been broken off and was missing altogether. Steve is making up new bits to replace the missing ones which will be welded to the broken stump in due course.

 

We did not have the Brackets to hold the shaft to the chassis and from information previously gleaned from other “Thornys” and from the Parts Book, drawings and patterns were made so that new ones could be cast and machined up.