WW1 Thornycroft restoration

[wrward]

The brazing material is applied either as paste flux and sheet or wire filler material. Or it can be applied as a combination paste with flux and filler together. I've seen two major heating methods. Loading the whole assembly into an atmosphere controlled furnace and heating the joint with induction coils.

For your purposes and small quantity I think I would look into paste filler. I think the clearances require for sheet filler might require fixturing to preserve alignment.

Best of luck with this all your other work is amazing.

Edited June 26, 2016 by wrward
clarification :)

[Gordon_M]

I think I'd drill and pin it, regardless - belt and braces ... and an extra belt :cool2:

[Citroman]

It's a nice job you did but is the corroded cup still strong enough to take the forces that are going to be put on it?

[Asciidv]

Steve,

 

Can you explain when you were machining the ball cup what combination of motion you used? Obviously there was the rotation of the part in the rotary table but what about the z and x axes?

 

Amazingly clever!

 

Barry.

[andypugh]

The final job is to braze it all together. This was originally done with brass brazing rods which is right on the limit of my heat source (propane).

 

Can you get a bigger burner? I think if you built a firebrick muffle you should be able to get there. I am assuming a full-size profane cylinder and burners like this: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/252432146800

[andypugh]

http://bodgesoc.blogspot.co.uk/2014/11/heat-treatment-furnace.html

Or maybe a bigger version of: http://bodgesoc.blogspot.co.uk/2014/06/forge.html

[flandersflyer]

MAPP gas will braize that....

[Old Bill]

Steve,

 

Can you explain when you were machining the ball cup what combination of motion you used? Obviously there was the rotation of the part in the rotary table but what about the z and x axes?

 

 

Hi Barry.

 

I cut in alternate directions, first down a step and then across as step, 0.015" each time following the axis of the casting. Coming down increases the radius and moving across reduces it. Unfortunately, I overcooked it a bit coming down too far with the result that the edge has a band about 1/8" wide slightly oversize. You can see it in the picture. I should have gone across first and then down to bring the socket up to size, not down. At least I understood that better when I did the cover!

 

The 45° angle was purely arbitrary but gave me a place to start. To try to avoid the pip, I set the tool at the radius which ran through that point on the axis when at the finished size. I still ended up with a pip, though, which I ground out with the Dremel grinder. The final result is not as good as a commercial ground component but it is quite acceptable for my purposes and we have salvaged another part. The cap does look a bit ropy but there is still enough metal there.

 

Now I have to psyche myself up to braze it all together. Many thanks for the input, everyone!

 

Cheers!

 

Steve.

[Old Bill]

Something we keep tripping over is the differential, so kindly sent by Mike from New Zealand. We took it out of the casing a while back and Dad and Tim had a good go at cleaning it. Since then it has been sitting on the floor under a cover while we decided what to do with it. We decided that it is in such good order with little wear and no swarf visible that we would simply put it into the axle casing we have fitted to the chassis and that was our project this weekend.

 

Firstly, Dad gave it another clean and dusting whilst I cut out a gasket.

 

 

 

 

Dad made the studs for it this weeke but was nearly caught out when he noticed that the New Zealand axle casing is tapped BSF and the one we have fitted, Whitworth! Fortunately, he noticed in time and all was well.

 

 

The studs were fitted and some blue goo placed underneath the gasket and the casing was ready.

 

 

The differential is a heavy old lump and it took us a while to work out how to do it. Tim turned it over before we slung it from the engine crane to put it on a trolley.

 

 

 

 

 

 

We wheeled it beneath the chassis and then picked it up again with the crane. That crane has proved to be a very good investment indeed!

 

 

 

More blue goo and the differential was gently lowered in, onto the studs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Some gentle encouragement from a mallet and then the nuts were evenly tightened to wind it down to the final position.

 

 

[Old Bill]

Spring washers were placed under the nuts and the whole lot were tightened down.

 

 

The cover on the end had been loosely fitted to give us somewhere to sling so this was removed and a gasket made and fitted.

 

 

Father has now started the grotty job of cleaning it up ready for painting. Doing it here puts the rest of the chassis at risk but does have the advantage of holding the differential securely upright and keeps the muck out of the works.

 

 

Well, that is another step forward and all of the big lumps are in. We just have to connect them now! The radiator will be the next exciting component and we hope to get the soldered core back in the next couple of weeks so that we can press on with finishing it.

 

Steve

[telco.2]

Spring washers were placed under the nuts and the whole lot were tightened down.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]116813[/ATTACH]

 

The cover on the end had been loosely fitted to give us somewhere to sling so this was removed and a gasket made and fitted.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]116814[/ATTACH]

 

Father has now started the grotty job of cleaning it up ready for painting. Doing it here puts the rest of the chassis at risk but does have the advantage of holding the differential securely upright and keeps the muck out of the works.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]116815[/ATTACH]

 

Well, that is another step forward and all of the big lumps are in. We just have to connect them now! The radiator will be the next exciting component and we hope to get the soldered core back in the next couple of weeks so that we can press on with finishing it.

 

Steve

Hi , What a fantastic project! from Bill Coates...we chatted at table following Mike Jones Funeral!!

[Old Bill]

Hi , What a fantastic project! from Bill Coates...we chatted at table following Mike Jones Funeral!!

 

Thanks Bill. It was a pleasure to meet you.

 

For the rest of you, Mike Jones was the chap who sold me the original collection of bits in 1989 and you can see him holding up a hood on page 1 of this thread. It was said, at his funeral, that he financed his traction engine by selling scrap he had found to various people. I was one of his customers! Sadly missed.

 

Steve

[andypugh]

The search function suggests that this thread contains the phrase "too big for the Myford" But the search function doesn't take you to a specific post....

 

 

 

I actually recommend watching the whole series from the beginning. The chaps are wizards with metal, know their stuff and have some of the best production on Youtube.

[Redherring]

I actually recommend watching the whole series from the beginning. The chaps are wizards with metal, know their stuff and have some of the best production on Youtube.

 

Wizards yes; with a keen sense of humour ...

[8_10 Brass Cleaner]

I hope Messrs Gosling wont mind me posting a few photos on this thread. Ive been going through and scanning dads slides, and have found the ones of recovering it.

 

Essentially what was recovered started this restoration.

 

Those of you who have been to Anglesey via the A55 will know of the tunnels on the coast around Penmaenmawr. Above these tunnels was a large Granite quarry. In the quarry next to a lake was a pumphouse. Driving the pump was the remains of the Thorny. A sawn off chassis, a gearbox, a bulkhead and fuel tank etc with gear change mechanism and an engine (not the correct one).

 

There are no roads up there, so it was revovered using a IH drot and what could be carried in the bucket. The pictures are self explanitory. Nearby was the infamous De Winton loco 'Penmaen', its remains are still there if somewhat robbed.

 

I went on a scouting trip, but chose not to go on the recovery day, it was 1983 and i was 4.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Old Bill]

Amazing! I have not seen those before. Thanks for posting them. They are a bit more of its history!

 

Cheers!

 

Steve :-)

[Citroman]

nice pics, we did see a 1940s scania truck mounted on concrete block at the edge of an Portugese quarry. The rear wheels were replaced bij winch drums and they pulled big stones out with it. It still had it's cab and front axle. :nut:

But helas we did forget to take a picture...:mad:

[Old Bill]

Well, we haven't stopped completely although progress is still slow. Too many other commitments! However, Dad has painted the differential and that is looking nice. Waiting for the coupling which is another pattern making job.

 

 

Vintage Wings and Radiators rang to say that the core was ready for collection so a trip to Manchester ensued. It was raining! It was ready on the day they promised and a super job less than a third the price of my other quote. Can't ask more than that.

 

 

 

 

I understand that they hang the gilled tubes on a wire and dip the lot, one end first as it is incluned to spit a slug of molten solder from the end if they are not careful! Once that is done, the tube plates are tinned and then the tubes inserted into one of them. The solder is run using a gas torch. Once that is done, the other tube plate is fitted and again, the solder is run around them with the torch. I didn't manage to get out of him how he aligns all of the tubes with the holes in the plate. I'm sure that is the most difficult bit! As you can see, they were very generous with the solder.

 

 

As each row of tubes was fitted, they were tied together with a copper rod to stop them from vibrating and fatiguing the joints. You can just see the end sticking out.

 

 

Then I spent a week of evenings scraping the solder from the joint face so that the gasket will sit flat.

 

 

A trila fit of the bottom tank and all looks well!

 

 

Next job is to finish off the tank.

 

Steve

[Great War truck]

I hope Messrs Gosling wont mind me posting a few photos on this thread. Ive been going through and scanning dads slides, and have found the ones of recovering it.

]

 

Thanks for adding these photos. I had never seen these before but it is just as I imagined it from the description. I wonder how they got it up there in the first place.

[Degsy]

Thanks for adding these photos. I had never seen these before but it is just as I imagined it from the description. I wonder how they got it up there in the first place.

 

The only public access to the top of the mountain was and still is a steep, narrow lane leading from Llanfairfechan which until a new track was built through the quarry in the late 80's we used to use to access the primary crusher. I assume that the pump house was something to do with the quarries so they would have had access to heavy machinery or failing that I presume horses would have been used. Incidentally during WW2 the mountain was used for training by both the British and US armies but I have been unable to discover whether it was used during WW1.

Edited August 4, 2016 by Degsy

[Old Bill]

Well, the next step was to turn up the spigots on the end of the bottom tank to fit the support trunnions and where better to do it than at my railway club where there is a big lathe.

 

 

 

 

Then it was a case of polishing up with a flap wheel and scrapers and fitting the studs previously made by Father.

 

 

All ready for some paint!

 

 

And on that front, my good friend Adrian, has very kindly sprayed the core with a matt zinc chromate. It looks very nice and is firing me up to get on with it!

 

 

Next task is to clean up the side castings and prime them. Then we can think about green paint, assembling and fitting. Another month should see it on the lorry.

 

Steve :-)

[Tomo.T]

Excellent progress Team Gosling ! Radiator core looks the business. Remember to etch prime the ally and brass bits before the zinc primer goes on, to ensure good adhesion. I'm sure you knew that, just checking !

 

Can't wait to see the finished item.

 

Tomo

[Asciidv]

Steve,

 

Did you assume that the spigots as cast had sufficient positional accuracy for you to take a centre from one end, or was there a magic method to ensure that everything ran true?

[Old Bill]

I put the tank on my surface plate, machined face down, and scribed a line across each boss at a height I estimated to be the mean of both boss centres. I then repeated the exercise with the front face of the tank on the plate. Next, I centre popped the crosses and put a centre in each using a slocumb drill in my pistol drill while the tank was clamped to the bench. To machine them, I should have supported it between centres and used a driving dog at the chuck end but I was lazy and just held one end in the chuck. I didn't think the resulting wobble would be significant over that length and they are rubber mounted anyway.

 

My main challenge was to find a lathe big enough to do it!

 

I have finished polishing the castings and am now cutting gaskets. We are getting close to fitting it now!

 

Steve :-)

[Old Bill]

As Tim has mentioned, we had the good fortune to be able to attend the Great Dorset Steam Fair again this year. There really was a good turn out of Great War era vehicles and we had a super time. Earlier in the year, we had reached the conclusion that we were not going to get the Thorny done in time for the 2018 centenary as there is just too much to do. However, the show has inspired us and Dad has laid down the gauntlet to get it done so we will have a go. It is going to be a tough one but we spent the rest of the weekend getting stuck in with these results.

 

We unloaded the radiator core and then I took the top tank and chamfered the inner edge in order to clear the solder fillet. Of course, we had to try fitting it!

 

 

 

That was inspiring so Dad pressed on with painting all of the radiator castings.

 

 

Then, we have been tripping over the gear lever and handbrake support casting for years so it was time that was fitted.

 

 

The we hunted down all of the gear and brake levers we have acquired over the years and laid them out to assess the job.

 

 

We also found a set of pedals although one has been very crudly repaired and will need some serious attention. We can't do much with them for the time being as the brake shaft pivot castings are missing so they will be my next pattern making job.

 

 

On to the gear lever and change levers. We are fortunate to have two although one is exceedingly corroded and the other has the wrong sort of handle. First job was to pull them apart using the usual persuaders or heat and a hammer and punch to knock out the pins.

 

 

The centring springs are interesting although they will need replacement. These are the best bits we have.

 

 

The holes in the shaft were a bit of a puzzle until I realised that there was the remains of a stauffer in the end of the shaft which had been peened over until it was invisible. Once drilled out, the grease ways could be cleared and a new stauffer will be fitted on final assembly.