Greg-NWO Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Wow, looks great guys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.O.S. Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Here's one, but possibly too good to break for spares? :cool2: http://www.milweb.net/classifieds.php?type=3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nz2 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 The truck does not appear to be original. Wrong radiator and wheels along with inappropriate tyres. The front axle would appear to be from a four wheel drive vehicle and the sump has an additional oil pan. Rear axle also incorrect. The cover over the driver compartment is vinyl covered and the rear cover frame has square corners. Its a movie stage prop made up to look like a Thornycroft J . Doug:-| Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.O.S. Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Correction - not good enough to break for spares!!!!! Wish I hadn't posted it now. I only glanced at the pictures, but yes - when viewed with a keen eye it is completely wrong. Surprising it was considered accurate enough for a film prop, but I suppose if just seen in the background.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nz2 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 From the sales page. "In fantastic condition this vehicle has been expertly worked by a Master craftsman and will grace any collection." Use of the words fantastic, expertly, Master, craftsman, and grace; all are pointedly incorrect. It would appear this master craftsman did not attend the same training institution as Old War Truck and family members. Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Bill Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Thanks for that NOS. I had not seen that one about. The quality of film props is quite variable it seems. Whilst watching 'King Kong' (!) I saw a Thornycroft AA gun lorry in the background, trained on the top of the Empire State Building. It looked very good but as I believe that it was a Peter Jackson film, I was not surprised. Steve :-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great War truck Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) Not too sure about their film prop. From a distance and if you ignore the wheels it probably does not look too bad as a film prop. I am pretty certain that they wont be able to obtain a real one. Even if they did i dont think that real WW1 trucks are suited to appearing films. He has got a little carried away with his description though. I am sure it will make a re-enactor very happy. GS wagons look nice though. With the wonderfully mild afternoon, today, for January and with a couple of hours to spare, Tony decided to take advantage of that weather to get the sump out in the open to clean it! Usual procedures of paraffin and brushes, and the rotary plastic and wire brushes to get the hard scale off it. The light went too quickly and it must now wait for another day to be finished. If we are keen enough, some Scotchbrite will finish the job beautifully! We have been "discussing" Engine Oil Level Gauges and Dip Sticks recently on this Thornycroft link and also on the Dennis one. Some of our trucks have Try-cocks and others slightly more sophisticated gauges for monitoring the engine oil level. We thought that neither of those solutions for checking the oil level was entirely safe - especially after the passage of time when damage or wear occurs and that a Dip-stick would be a far better idea. Well we find today that Thornycroft took a "belt and braces" approach to this, of not only fitting a Gauge - described in a previous note above - but now we find with cleaning the sump, that there is provision there as well for a Try-cock. The remains of a broken Try-cock are still fitted to our original Thornycroft half-engine. The Oil Drain plug screw is situated right at the bottom of the sump and is fitted with a long internal prong - presumably to leave a passage way clear through any sediment - or even for poking a hole through the sediment again if it should settle and block the hole whilst the sump is being drained. There is a lot of wastage on this prong where it joins the screw which is quite surprising since it should have spent all of its time immersed in oil - unless of course, the engine was really neglected and the bottom part of the sump had a quantity of water in it with the oil floating on top of it.............. Edited November 3, 2019 by Great War truck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy Larkin Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Thanks for that NOS. I had not seen that one about. The quality of film props is quite variable it seems. Whilst watching 'King Kong' (!) I saw a Thornycroft AA gun lorry in the background, trained on the top of the Empire State Building. It looked very good but as I believe that it was a Peter Jackson film, I was not surprised. Steve :-D Patrick Stoll is a German film maker. www.militaryfilmandmovieservice.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
super6 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I suspect there is an obvious answer, but why is it called a Try cock? Because you try it by opening a little and see what comes out? or am I completely on the wrong track? What type/brand of red oxide paint do you use? Thanks for an interesting thread, as good as the Dennis one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minesweeper Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I suspect there is an obvious answer, but why is it called a Try cock? Because you try it by opening a little and see what comes out? or am I completely on the wrong track? What type/brand of red oxide paint do you use? Thanks for an interesting thread, as good as the Dennis one. I bet you have started another debate - so let's see what others have to say later! Sometimes on the back of a steam boiler, you will have two try-cocks, one above the other and they are used for testing the water level in the boiler. If you open the top one and water comes out, you know that you have at least water in the boiler up to that level - if nothing coms out, then you would then open the bottom try-cock to make sure that you do at least have water up to that level. If nothing comes out there, then you do urgently need water in the boiler! If nothing came out of the top one and you get something out of the bottom one, then you know that your water level is somewhere in between the two try-cock levels which would be a safe operating area! In the Thorny, there is just one try-cock in the sump, placed at the oil operating level and the same principle would apply. If you open the try-cock and nothing comes out, the oil would need topping up. So in my mind for "Try-cock" you could substitute "Test-cock" - but I am happy to be corrected on this one! If you look in the dictionary, you will see the definition of "try-cock" as a cock that can be opened to draw off a small quantity of fluid to test it! My guess is now that we will get other thoughts and opinions on this - so watch this space. The Primer that we use is Bondaprime. We have used it on all the lorries and find it really excellent. It is initially quite thin so that it covers well and really does an excellent job. Glad that you are enjoying the thread - we learn a tremendous amount from the feed back and are always very grateful to have. Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rippo Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Hello Possibly, would the prong on the sump plug have been magnetic to pick up any metal particals in the oil? reminds me of the one's used on the mini. regards John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
43rdrecce Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 For what it's worth..always known as test-cocks on the Great Western Railway/British Railways WR! Regards Paul (Father, Grandfather and Great-Grandfather all drivers on GWR/BR) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minesweeper Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 HelloPossibly, would the prong on the sump plug have been magnetic to pick up any metal particals in the oil? reminds me of the one's used on the mini. regards John No, we don't think that it would have ever been a magnetic one (for those days) - and on further reflection and consideration, we think that the "prong" on the Drain Hole Screw was just there to stop the float on the oil gauge from descending too far and perhaps "bottoming". I'll make a new "prong" to replace it because of its corrosion which could have just been caused by condensation. Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattinker Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Not too sure about their film prop. From a distance and if you ignore the wheels it probably does not look too bad as a film prop. I am pretty certain that they wont be able to obtain a real one. Even if they did i dont think that real WW1 trucks are suited to appearing films. He has got a little carried away with his description though. I am sure it will make a re-enactor very happy. GS wagons look nice though. I work building sets and machinery for theatre, cinema and television, historical acuracy depends a lot on budget, the rest is the director and the set designers "idea" about how things should look which is a a variable! The older I get the more mistakes there seem to be. One of the things that is great to do is transforming a street into another era, I once put up wooden hoardings around my Bank! It was the only façade that wasn't 19th century in the "square"! Quite something in a town as big as Paris!! The Lorry in question looks to me as though there isn't much "Thornycroft" in it! Apparently all that is identifiable isn't, so I would doubt the chassis too! It's much easier to use a chassis with the wrong axles than to adapt the wrong axles to the chassis. Your strange sump might have been made that way to stop it falling out suddenly and dropping into the old oil when removing it. I've seen something similar on radiator drain taps. The ground down bit doesn't look original to me, maybe somebodies modification to drain of a little oil when overfilled? Regards, Matthew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8_10 Brass Cleaner Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 TRY Cocks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great War truck Posted January 14, 2012 Author Share Posted January 14, 2012 (edited) That's that one sorted! New shaft and top screwed and silver soldered to the original nut. It will not come apart! After completeing his chores, Steve spent the afternoon cleaning up the valve-cap plugs we removed at Christmas. They were pretty grotty with the remains of the spark plugs still in situe. Two of then succumbed to heat and a stillson wrench but the other two had to be bored out in the lathe. All was successful and he finished off with a skim across the spark plug washer surface and the top clamping face. They are now ready to be ground back into their seats when the engine is reassembled. Edited November 3, 2019 by Great War truck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great War truck Posted January 18, 2012 Author Share Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) Here are the four Exhaust Valve Covers - before and after wire brushing. They are all looking a bit moth-eaten and one in particular may be beyond recovery! We shall see Edited December 18, 2019 by Great War truck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great War truck Posted January 18, 2012 Author Share Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) The cleaning continues! Edited December 18, 2019 by Great War truck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon_M Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 If that valve cover is cast iron it may be time for a new one. On the other hand, if it is cast steel, a touch of weld and grind would be fine. I don;t see any way for those valve covers to be retained? Am I missing a thread or some sort of physical retainer thingy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.O.S. Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 ....I don;t see any way for those valve covers to be retained? Am I missing a thread or some sort of physical retainer thingy? Wot he said (well I wasn't going to be the first to ask :blush:). Any chance of a schematic or drawing showing the arrangement please? I just cannot fathom it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minesweeper Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 If you look back at the postings on the 29th and 30th December, you will see the remains of the "retaining thingys" as Gordon describes them, being cut out! They are totally "gone" so new ones have to be made. A nice little machining exercise. When they are fixed down tight, they simply bear down on the Valve Caps to keep them in position. Really, re-use of the caps depends on what sort of seal can be recovered after they have been ground in again. They are not cast iron but a very hard steel. Steve has done proper drawings for the replacement parts and perhaps he will post them for you to see when he gets home from work this evening! Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon_M Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Ta. Well looking at the state of the surrounding material I think all-new might be the way to go. Weld repairs that had to be machined back and then getting them to seal would probably be more work than making new in this instance. Ah well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great War truck Posted January 22, 2012 Author Share Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) Steve has been cleaning up the engine oil pump which has proven not to be too bad. After sixty years or so, it was completely seized of course but a gentle approach using heat and an impact screwdriver proved successful with no damage. The early pumps on these engines were mounted directly on the end of the camshaft above the oil level which meant that they had to be primed as the first job every day. This was quite a chore and much damage was caused by drivers racing cold engines to try to get the pump to pick up. Towards the end of the war, this version was introduced where the same pump was mounted below the oil level powered by a vertical shaft driven by skew gears on the end of the camshaft. Although a little rusty and seized, they soon cleaned up with a wire brush and live to fight another day. Edited December 18, 2019 by Great War truck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great War truck Posted January 22, 2012 Author Share Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) The pump itself is interesting in that the body is an aluminium die-casting. When was that process introduced? A gentle brushing with a nylon brush in the pistol drill soon cleaned it up and showed that it had been cross-threaded at some stage. A trip to the local second hand tool shop elicited a 5/8" BSP die nut and this was carefully run over it to clean it up using the lathe to keep it all square. Steve made up a replacement for a missing oil filling plug Then, all that remained was to reassemble it. Another part ready to go back on. We do have one puzzle though. Part of the oil delivery pipe remained and this will have to be replaced. The end of the pipe is bell-mouthed but how do you generate that shape? We can only think of hammering a drift up the end but it does seem a bit brutal. Is there a special tool for the task? Edited December 18, 2019 by Great War truck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon_M Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) It's a double-lap flare, basically exactly the same as a brake pipe end. Although not common you do get exactly the same flaring tool type as for brake pipes. There's a cheap hand-held Sealey version that does up to 1/2" at least. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AK5063-SEALEY-VEHICLE-BRAKE-PIPE-FLARING-TOOL-KIT-/250888964116?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3a6a25c814 Not high pressure, of course. Gordon Edited January 22, 2012 by Gordon_M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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