dgrev Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 Steve Once the Thorny is done, what then? I know you blokes have long ago run out of shed-age and if I recall correctly the Dennis is out to "agistment" so to speak: so space is not only at a premium, but I am guessing you would have to pay a significant sum were this also to be the case with the Thorny? I encountered the same problem. Being in rural Australia I had just enough spare land that I could double the size of my shed and added an extra 144 sq m, but now have very little bare ground left. I am under orders that 5 vehicles is the absolute limit - actually it was 4, but one was already on an 8 year acquisition saga so it snuck in under the bar. So do the 3 of you then go into care and maintenance mode or are there further adventures ahead if you can resolve the storage issue. Hobby farm with some barns? Regards Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kufra Kiwi Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 Just wondering ..... are you sure the radiator overflow pipe is correctly positioned? It seems almost low enough to drain water during normal driving. I imagine that an overflow pipe would be best positioned at the highest point of the radiator tank? It certainly is in my Model A Ford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minesweeper Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 7 hours ago, dgrev said: Steve Once the Thorny is done, what then? I know you blokes have long ago run out of shed-age and if I recall correctly the Dennis is out to "agistment" so to speak: so space is not only at a premium, but I am guessing you would have to pay a significant sum were this also to be the case with the Thorny? I encountered the same problem. Being in rural Australia I had just enough spare land that I could double the size of my shed and added an extra 144 sq m, but now have very little bare ground left. I am under orders that 5 vehicles is the absolute limit - actually it was 4, but one was already on an 8 year acquisition saga so it snuck in under the bar. So do the 3 of you then go into care and maintenance mode or are there further adventures ahead if you can resolve the storage issue. Hobby farm with some barns? Regards Doug Our next one will be the Peerless which I bought what must be more than 25 years ago and which has lived in a Car Port adjacent to the house ever since then. We have talked about bringing that one out after this summer, take the engine out of it which we will be able to squeeze into the Lorry Shed along side the Thorny and work on that first of all. The engine-less Peerless can then go back into the Car Port until we are ready to work on that. What then, we do not know! We certainly have no intention of parting with any of them. Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Bill Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 (edited) 18 hours ago, Kufra Kiwi said: Just wondering ..... are you sure the radiator overflow pipe is correctly positioned? That had us worried too but we found a photo of the inside of an original top tank and there was an internal pipe. We have therefore done the same. On the subject of painting lorries, Tim found this super shot of the paint shop at Thornycrofts. As you can see, all women and of modest stature making the lorries look very big indeed! Steve Edited February 1, 2018 by Old Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Bill Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 (edited) Something we still don't have is a prop shaft and the spider to drive it on the differential. I decided that an SG iron casting would suffice for the differential spider but we are very lacking in information. Despite all of my pages of sketches and books of photos, I seem to have missed this part altogether! What we do have is a picture from the parts book and a section from 'The Book of the Thornycroft'. I know the holes centres and the details of the spline so I puzzled it out from there. Barry very kindly once again offered to 3d print the pattern for us so I sent him my 'drawings'. In this case, they were not very good as I was really struggling how to define the cut-outs. However, Barry was very patient and modelled it up for me before writing the program to print it. Thes machines truly are amazing! Notice the temporary structure in the middle and in the cut-outs to support the higher pieces. This is broken out on completion of the print. I think the print took a couple of days but Barry did a half-size one first, just to prove the program. The results are amazing and very accurate, much better than my carpentry! With the last printed pattern, the foundry had trouble drawing it from the sand as it was not solid enough to accept the usual woodscrew driven in. This time, Barry left me some holes into which I glued some pieces of timber so they have somewhere where they can get a bite. Two coats of 'Pattern Coat' well rubbed down and pattern number 30 is finished. Only one more to do! I shall be pleased to see the end of this pattern making so that I can get all of the dust off my lathe and out of my workshop. Thanks Barry. That has been a tremendous help and very much appreciated! Steve Edited February 2, 2018 by Old Bill 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo.T Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 (edited) On 30/01/2018 at 10:28 PM, dgrev said: Steve. Out of curiosity, how was the paint done originally? Spray or brush or something else? What was the original paint? Just real turps, tinter, linseed oil and a bulking agent such as titanium dioxide or say Nitro-Cellulose? Regards Doug The paint used at this time was probably an oil-based, heavily leaded, coach enamel. This was applied by brush and naturally air dried, to a semi-matt finish. It required coating with varnish to produce a gloss finish, (which was obviously not necessary for camouflaged vehicles.) The biggest problem with it, was the long drying time, which limited painting to one coat per day maximum in good conditions. This could be improved on unfavourable, cold or wet days, by the addition of Terebin driers. Brushing Cellulose was available pre-war, for the high quality jobs, but Cellulose did not really take off until the adoption of spray techniques in the 1920's.Also, Nitro Cellulose was required for other purposes during the war. Edited February 4, 2018 by Tomo.T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgrev Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 Tomo Thanks for the paint information. I am familiar with the use (minimal quantities) of Terebine in linseed oil based paints but did not know it was also used in mineral oil based paints. Regards Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo.T Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 Doug, I believe Terebin is a natural drying agent and suitable for all oil-based paints. I still use it and it's available in good quality paint stores! Regards, Tomo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andypugh Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 37 minutes ago, Tomo.T said: Doug, I believe Terebin is a natural drying agent and suitable for all oil-based paints What is "Terebin" ? The Internet finds nothing, but I am aware of "Térébenthine" as the French word for Turpentine. Turpentine is certainly available from artists suppliers, and is rather pleasant smelling being made out of pine tree resin. There is much scope for confusion with "Turps" which I believe to be the same as white spirit, which is a "Turpentine Substitute" only to the extent that it is cheaper and will clean brushes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo.T Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 Terebin is a purple coloured additive used by old painters, to speed up the drying time of oil-based paint. It does exist and I bought some only last week! As Doug said, it should be used sparingly, about a cap full in a litre tin will suffice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgrev Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 (edited) Andy Terebine is otherwise known as "dryers". If you don't have a drying agent in paint, especially linseed oil based paint, it takes ages to dry. Have you ever used linseed oil to preserve wooden tool handles? Without dryers it can take multiple weeks before the things stop sticking to your hands. Turpentine is used as a flowing agent (slow evaporation). Thinners on the other hand is used as a fast evaporating flowing agent. The secret to Terebine is to use it VERY sparingly. More is not better. Regards Doug Edited February 4, 2018 by dgrev Wrong syntax 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgrev Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 Andy Mineral Turpentine is as stated a cheap mineral based substitute for natural turpentine (from the Turpentine Bush I believe). You would not use it in anything that you wanted to last for a long time. Real turpentine is used by artists using heritage category oil paints. This type of paint has a life in the hundreds of years and thus has to last forever. That longevity is also an indication that they don't degrade. The fumes are not compatible with good health either...... Mineral Turps does not have those properties. Sort of think Leonardo DaVinci works of art - his paints pre-dated what we are discussing, but you get the idea. Regards Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo.T Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 Very good Doug, we are obviously on the same wavelength paintwise! Your spelling correction is noted, we are talking about Terebine! However, we should be talking about Thornycrofts, so how is it going Steve ?......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgrev Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 Tomo I am sure Steve has just learnt more than he expected about paint. However, our Terebine discussion may be useful when it comes time to preserve any shovels or axes that are displayed on his vehicles. In the UK, you probably only need to linseed oil the handles once ever couple of decades. Over here in Oz I find myself having to do it every 2 or 3 years even when stored under cover. Our dry heat where I live really does age timber surprisingly quickly. I feel confident that my 500ml tin of Terebine (smallest I could buy) should see me right for at least the next 50 years given the amount of use I have for it on wooden tools. I await the next Thorny installment...... Regards Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Bill Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 Right there Doug! The trouble with this hobby is that each project requires a breadth of knowledge and I am rather lacking in depth. It is great to have so many people with so much knowledge that they are prepared to share. Thank you very much! Painting would be our real bottleneck if it wasn't for Dad. He is doing some every day and trying to get aheadof the game by painting all the planks before assembly. This will inevitably mean that some touching up is required but also that there is paint in all the joints so water trapping should be reduced. As space is so limited, the lorry is also used as the painting bench! The last time I was down, I fitted the oil pressure gauge pipe. This has no obvious routing so I have run the tube underneath the engine, across the chassis and up the gauge on the rhs. A couple hours with the pipe bender produced this: Then I had to get it into the chassis and connect it. The main oil lines are 1/2" and 3/8" and I could not attach my 1/4" line to the fittng. To get over this, I cut a short length of 3/8" tube, flared it, sleeved it and then silver soldered it onto the 1/4" . Seems to work but my arms weren't long enough to blow down one end with myfinger over the other to test for leaks! Final installation. It is straighter than it looks,. That is an optical illusion! Steve 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Bill Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 The last pattern is complete! Gosh, this was an awkward one and gave me no pleasure at all. It supports the pivot for the foot brake bell-crank and changes the direction of the pedal to a cross-ways direction to pull the shoes together on the back of the gearbox. It mounts on the rhs of the chassis frame and takes the form of a roughly skewed hollow cone. I spent a long time puzzling over how to do it. In the end, I set up a jig with the mounting face screwed to the rear and the boss to the top with a cut-away to locate the strips with which it was built up. This sort of went OK but was tricky to hold and I had to let the glue go off after each strip which made it a very slow job. The underside didn't come out too well and you can see how poor my joints were. Thank goodness for filler! It was at this point that I realised that I had a problem. The side pieces were fitted vertical with the pattern in this attitude. However, the obvious moulding position is in this attitude where it become obvious that the sides taper inwards preventing the sand in the centre from being released. The only solution I could see was to lay some strips inside at an angle in order to taper the thickness of the side walls. This worked OK but I used an awful lot of filler and it was the devils own job to shape it satisfactorily. The outside was easier and I just held it against my linisher and dressed it by eye. All done and painted and I think it will be OK. Definitely not one of my better patterns and I am glad to see the back of it. Hopefully, that is the end of the pattern making. 31 in all. My grateful thanks to Barry for printing some of them and to John M for the load of the water branch to make another. At last I can get the dust out of my workshop! Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nz2 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 10 hours ago, dgrev said: I feel confident that my 500ml tin of Terebine (smallest I could buy) should see me right for at least the next 50 years given the amount of use I have for it on wooden tools. After reading these posts, realised what was missing off the shelf. I have rung a local paint shop and found they have a 500 ml tin of Terebine in stock. There are painting projects here waiting for the right weather. This will assist in getting it done! Doug W Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgrev Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 Doug to Doug You will need to get them to tell you how much to use or research that on the internet. It really is a case of more is not better. My Dad was a carpenter from New Zealand, I suspect it was over there that he learnt to use Terebine. What I do not know is if you have to vary the quantity due to climate/humidity. Regards Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgrev Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 Steve I stand in awe of you, your brother and Dad's abilities. Especially when it comes to your milling talents and pattern making talents. The Thorny adventure (and likewise Dennis) have been very educational and I eagerly await each update. I do wonder at your get-it-done-for-X-rally timeline. Very satisfying to have it ready in time. But does mean you are working to a self enforced deadline. However, perhaps that is your motivational strategy, so an observation rather than a criticism. Regards Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAN_B Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 At risk of taking the discussion off the target again, I have for years used a preparation for "painting" old engines etc to retain their patina, which comprises 40% mineral turpentine, 40% boiled linseed oil, and 20% terebine. It takes a day or two to harden, but gives a nice even natural looking finish to cast iron. Of course it does need to be cleaned and lightly wire-brushed first. I dub this concoction "linturbine". 500ml of this goes a very long way. Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgrev Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 Ian I take it what you are saying is that you are creating effectively a type of varnish, but I would imagine that has a dull finish? Regards Doug G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattinker Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 15 hours ago, Old Bill said: Right there Doug! The trouble with this hobby is that each project requires a breadth of knowledge and I am rather lacking in depth. It is great to have so many people with so much knowledge that they are prepared to share. Thank you very much! Painting would be our real bottleneck if it wasn't for Dad. He is doing some every day and trying to get aheadof the game by painting all the planks before assembly. This will inevitably mean that some touching up is required but also that there is paint in all the joints so water trapping should be reduced. As space is so limited, the lorry is also used as the painting bench! The last time I was down, I fitted the oil pressure gauge pipe. This has no obvious routing so I have run the tube underneath the engine, across the chassis and up the gauge on the rhs. A couple hours with the pipe bender produced this: Then I had to get it into the chassis and connect it. The main oil lines are 1/2" and 3/8" and I could not attach my 1/4" line to the fittng. To get over this, I cut a short length of 3/8" tube, flared it, sleeved it and then silver soldered it onto the 1/4" . Seems to work but my arms weren't long enough to blow down one end with myfinger over the other to test for leaks! Final installation. It is straighter than it looks,. That is an optical illusion! Steve Hi Steve, I haven't posted in a while, but I've been following along! Enjoying it as much as ever. With this kind of capillary tube oil pressure gauge, it is customary to include a couple of coils to render the pipe more more flexible. Engine vibration quickly work hardens copper, I'm afraid that without coils, you're running the risk of a broken oil pressure pipe! Regards, Matthew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Bill Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 20 hours ago, dgrev said: I do wonder at your get-it-done-for-X-rally timeline. Very satisfying to have it ready in time. But does mean you are working to a self enforced deadline. However, perhaps that is your motivational strategy, so an observation rather than a criticism. Hi Doug. Yes, the deadline does add a bit more pressure than I would like and take some of the fun out of it. This is such a good one to aim for, though, and so many of our friends will be there that we must have a go. We won't finish the lorry but we just might have it roadworthy in time. We drove half a mile with the Dennis before the run and I would like, at least, to do the same with the Thorny. Mind you, at this stage with the Dennis, we had run the engine the previous November so we are definitely closer to the wire this time! Thanks for the reminder Matt. The Carlton Colville one wasn't coiled but it is certainly a good idea. The coil of tube that I bought had only 4" left over when I finally connected it but I will look at putting one in after the run. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAN_B Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 On 05/02/2018 at 11:03 PM, dgrev said: Ian I take it what you are saying is that you are creating effectively a type of varnish, but I would imagine that has a dull finish? Regards Doug G. Yes, it is varnish-like, and gives a very natural looking dull finish of reasonable durability. This is an example on one of my engines. Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Bill Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 That's pretty Ian. What is it and what is its history? Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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