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RM commando 2CV pick-up question


pzluchs

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Hallo!

This is my first question. :)

I found in web comics type, but very realistic in detail, dutch (I think) picture with RM marines on board Commando carrier.

In this pict 2CV was drawn as weapon platform with MG or gun.

Was this in reality?

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The RMC did indeed use some 2CV pick up trucks as lightweight transport . I don't believe any of the original vehicles survive but there is a least one replica on the GB show scene . I've never seen a photograph or any evidence to indicate that they were ever used as a gun platform only as transport .

2CV pick-up.jpg

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I have seen a photo of a truck slung under a helicopter although I cannot find a copy of it just now - I believe it was in a book which commemorated HMS Bulwark . I was shown this by a friend who served on board , sadly now passed away . I've just done another internet search & came across this pic on the British 2CV website .

navy2cv.jpg

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Hi, the chap (RM Major) that designed the 2CV FFR for the RM lives not that far from me. He came along to a few meetings locally and gave a seires of talks about the 2 CVs.

I complete (all radios still fitted) FFR model is still in a jungle somewhere as it had to be dropped as the chopper had an engine problem.

He shoed us some photos, of the cargo versions being pushed over the side of a carrier. These had been damaged, and it was normal just to get rid of them that way.

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I think Chatfield introduced the 2CV to RM use. Lamb, was the signals man who thought out the FFR version. Someone did plan an armed version, but no idea what he was called. I don't think it got very far, as the Land Rover took over.

But it's one of the bits of history that seems to have been lost, not much info around. Which is a shame.

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:thumbsup: Ah - All becomes clear ! As you say , a great shame that these bits of information become lost in the mists of time . They probably don't seem that important to many people but it all adds up .

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While I was browsing the web for pictures of vehicles used during the War in Algeria, I found 3 pictures showing a 2CV modified to mount a recoilless rifle or a MG. All the hints lead to suppose this latter was a MG151 already in use in the naval helicopters. Stunned by this kind of vehicle, I questioned the archives department in Chatellerault (procurement agency) and in Vincennes (department of Defense). I was answered this vehicle really existed but with no more details to add

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Thanks for answers :)

The article from Flight international:

The CO of 42 Commando, Lt-Col R. D. Crombie, described

<iis operational requirement as "to land a commando and its associated

equipment and stores." Any estimate of what went with

a commando, he explained, depended on what was the task to be

done. Basically the unit was one of some 600 men; its five fighting

119

Men of 40 Commando go into action on the spot

troops had 60 men each; and there was a support troop, armed

with 3in mortars and machine guns and including field engineers.

The basic weapon of the fighting troop was the new self-loading

rifle, and the 120mm Mobat, of which the Commando had four.

Col Crombie also said that his unit had extra signallers, for communications

between ship and shore; and a gunner officer and

four RA men to control supporting gunfire from the ship. The

Commando does not depend on wheeled transport, but can be

supplied either with Land-Rovers (if there is a friendly port

available and they can be put ashore by landing craft) or with

Citroen 2CVs, of which the ship carries 30 and which are transported

by the Whirlwinds.

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A bit more information....

 

I had a phone call from Philip Chatfield earlier this evening and he has confirmed my original assertion that his father , Major John Chatfield , was indeed responsible for developing the 2CV pick up for use by the Royal Marine Commandos . Philip has in his posession all the information relating to the vehicles and is , at this moment , in the process of writing a book about them .

 

I am lead to believe that Major Lamb's involvement was in regard to the fitting of the wireless equipment carried in the FFR 2CV .

 

Phil tells me that the prototype 2CV pick up was being driven round Hayling Island and that locale in 1958 as family transport not long before he was born !

 

The 2CV truck was never used as a gun platform by the British services as the bodywork proved to be too flimsy - trials firing a mortar caused so much damage that they were abandoned - and the suspension made the platform so unstable that it was not possible to obtain any degree of accuracy - particularly if rapid firing were to take place. The French did trial a prototype gun platform but this too proved to be unsuccessful . Phil does , however have a photograph showing a 2CV truck towing a MOBAT 'somewhere in the desert' .

 

Phil has a huge amount of written and photographic information on the vehicles in development and in service and when time permits will finish compliing his book , in the meanwhile he has written a substantial article on the subject which has been submitted to CMV - we will have to wait and see when or if they publish it .

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While I was browsing the web for pictures of vehicles used during the War in Algeria, I found 3 pictures showing a 2CV modified to mount a recoilless rifle or a MG. All the hints lead to suppose this latter was a MG151 already in use in the naval helicopters. Stunned by this kind of vehicle, I questioned the archives department in Chatellerault (procurement agency) and in Vincennes (department of Defense). I was answered this vehicle really existed but with no more details to add

 

 

Is the weapons mount you meant.

 

www.servir-et-defendre.org/archives_du_dinosa...

 

 

bis_x_citroen-2cv-canon-20_ghan1_1.sd.jpg

 

With a 20mm Canon

 

bis_x_citroen-2cv-canon-75sr_ghan1_1.sd.jpg

 

With 75mm Recoiless Rifle

 

 

Also found this pic of what I think is a Dutch 2CV. Don`t know if it is originally dutch or not?

 

militaire.jpg

 

As for this one!!!!!!!!!

0429841001234189106.jpg

 

Jerry

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Knew I had it somewhere, and have just found it. There was an article on these vehicles in the motoring section of the Daily Telegraph on May 28 1998 (how time flies!). According to this the first trials of using helicopters to lift light vehicles took place in 1957 using 2CV's built by Citroen in Slough of all places. The article states that they subsequently entered service in late 1959 and were based on the commando carriers HMS Bulwark and HMS Albion. Despite being built in Britain, all of the vehicles were right hand drive. A total of 65 were produced for the Admiralty, 35 of which were delivered in 1960 and 30 in 1961 (which conflicts somewhat with the date that the article gives for their entry into service). They were withdrawn from active service in 1964, though some continued to be employed by teh Navy in dockyards. According to the article some that were too worn out for further service were scrapped by being pushed from the carriers into the Indian Ocean.

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