Yorkie Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 ..for the canvas cover for the hole in the cab roof of many of our trucks - RL, early MK, Millies and MATs, sometimes referred to as a 'Hip Ring'? I remember fitting a few in my younger days, but age has addled my memory for the correct name. :cry: Got a feeling I might be looking for one soon. Cheers, Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 morris c8 fat Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 Yourright they are called hip-ring covers but ask some one to make you one and they look at you as if you have just asked for bifurcated rivets I know I have asked for both let me know how you get on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 ArtistsRifles Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 Odd - the REME guys attached to my old units always referred to them as "Cuppola (sp?) Covers"????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 AlienFTM Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 Odd - the REME guys attached to my old units always referred to them as "Cuppola (sp?) Covers"????? Cupola - Hip-ring: a question of degree IMO. Personally I'd expect rather more bang for my buck if I asked for a cupola and got a hip-ring. But I can see why the terms are used interchangeably. If I asked for a hip-ring and got, say, the commander's cupola from a Spartan, I'd think it was a bargain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Yorkie Posted March 29, 2006 Author Share Posted March 29, 2006 Cupola rings a bell, but any A vehicle operator will tell you, it ain't a cupola. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 fv1609 Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 Well in the User Handbook for the Leyland Heavy Recovery 6x6 it just says the "cab roof is provided with an observation with a fabric cover". The diagram shows a "cab roof hatch cover". Jane's Dictionary of Military Terminology says a "cupola is the revolving turret of an AFV". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 AlienFTM Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 Well in the User Handbook for the Leyland Heavy Recovery 6x6 it just says the "cab roof is provided with an observation with a fabric cover". The diagram shows a "cab roof hatch cover". Jane's Dictionary of Military Terminology says a "cupola is the revolving turret of an AFV". I believe that in Eastern lands, you might see "cupola" meaning "minaret" (tower attached to a mosque). In German, Turm translates as both "turret" and "cupola". Jane's is a bit liberal with its definition, since by implication of the Jane's definition, the whole turret is a cupola. So a cupola is strictly a mini-turret on top of a turret, usually for a(n A) vehicle commander (and in my experience it tends to have some functionality like rotation and a machine gun). The Spartan cupola is equipped to mount a remotely operated GPMG from inside the vehicle with hatches battened down. Naturally it comes with an array of periscopes to give the commander vision. I believe that in the days way back when, it wasn't unheard of for B vehicle commanders (as per the OP) to mount an MG on the hip ring, which could be dragged round the hip ring to offer a degree of anti-infantry and anti-aircraft protection. On a truck cab roof, there is little reason for an array of periscopes, since the roof is attached above glass windows all around. I therefore posit that the hip ring on a B vehicle is functionally equivalent to the all-singing, all-dancing cupola on a Spartan, just without bells and whistles, so it it not entirely ridiculous to refer to it as a cupola. But I wouldn't. ps. You may have gathered that I have a particular affection for the Spartan cupola: I once spent an exercise commanding a Spartan (because the Scorpion that would have been mine had been BERed (final drives, engine and gearbox) but was due for Scorpole the following week anyway, but the replacement Scorpion hadn't yet been made combat ready. The Spartan Cupola with r/c GPMG was a revelation compared with the ring of periscopes around a Scorpion commander's hatch. I am sure one of the Spartan owners here will confirm or correct if I say that traverse on the Spartan commander's cupola might even have been powered, whereas as a Scorpion gunner, I traversed the entire turret by hand. How else do you think I got this giant, muscled right arm?!? ;o) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Yorkie Posted March 30, 2006 Author Share Posted March 30, 2006 Not certain about the Spartan, but having spent more than a little time sticking out of the top of a Sultan, the cupola was traversed by hand, pushing on a handgrip not unlike a motorbike's, mounted vertically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 AlienFTM Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 Not certain about the Spartan, but having spent more than a little time sticking out of the top of a Sultan, the cupola was traversed by hand, pushing on a handgrip not unlike a motorbike's, mounted vertically. Yes, likewise the Sultan was my usual mode of transport in Command Troop and FHQ (when not in a Ferret and after the Saracens had gone, so maybe not all that long!). Besides, first thing we did to our Sultans was attach an XPM cage hmmm maybe 18" high to the roof to carry all the equipment necessary to run a Battlegroup / Combat Team headquarters. The cage went round two sides of the commander's hatch, so that closed down, vision would be extremely limited. I remember an occasion it was decided to move our Combat Team in some sort of competition whilst on exercise and the OC decided to monitor it and add / deduct points for good / bad military performance. He was going to dock me points for standing to look over the cage to make sure the alternate command vehicle was still with me. I stood and had a blazing row with him because if I hadn't ensured the vehicle behind was keeping up, he'd have deducted points for splitting the packet. Lance Corporal Alien stood and argued with the Major long enough and hard enough to get those points back. He was taken aback by my attitude, but I had already had my transfer out accepted, I really didn't give a toss and besides, as my last Confidential Report to be issued by an officer some six years later stated, "Sergeant Alien does not tolerate stupidity from anybody, regardless of their rank." How true. (You don't want to know about that day in the Brigadier's office ...) The Sultan cupola never whetted my appetite the way the Spartan Cupola did. On reflection, you're probably right, though and the Spartan cupola was hand-traversed: certainly less work than a Scorpion turret! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Yorkie Posted March 30, 2006 Author Share Posted March 30, 2006 Besides, first thing we did to our Sultans was attach an XPM cage hmmm maybe 18" high to the roof to carry all the equipment necessary to run a Battlegroup / Combat Team headquarters. Thomas bins did it for me! Did you ever use the smoke grenade launchers, and the stowage rack on the roof for anything other than smoke pots? About the same size but containing something far more refreshing? :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 AlienFTM Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 Besides, first thing we did to our Sultans was attach an XPM cage hmmm maybe 18" high to the roof to carry all the equipment necessary to run a Battlegroup / Combat Team headquarters. Thomas bins did it for me! Did you ever use the smoke grenade launchers, and the stowage rack on the roof for anything other than smoke pots? About the same size but containing something far more refreshing? :lol: pmsl. Ramble alert. Bear with me, it's a long one. Our C Sqn was warned off for a six-week exchange trip to Australia in 1982. For eighteen months leading up to it, they went on and on about it, really getting up everybody else's nose about it. Then, as the big day got closer and closer, they got unbearable. One day, I was having a really bad day, so much so that eventually, I actually ripped beret from head and jumped up and down on it in the middle of the main vehicle park square surrounded by REME Light Aid Detachment, two squadrons (ours and C) and the Sergeants' Mess in a fit of pique in the style of good cartoons (I was really mad, but my sense of humour was still running in the background). A mukker from C attempted to lighten the mood and made a remark along the lines of "Did you know we're going to Australia next month?" in an attempt to wind me up. Now I didn't hide my talents under a bushel and everybody in the Regiment knew I'd done three years in Command Troop and had a direct line to the CO. I turned to this guy and said, absolutely straight-faced, "You haven't heard then? Maggie is assembling a Task Force to sail for Ascension Island and as the most experienced Recce regiment available, we are to be mobilised and packed off. The Colonel is right now announcing it to Squadron Commanders at an O Group. Your trip to Australia is OFF Bonny Lad, so you can put away all thoughts of Australia and start collecting together your winter woollies for a real I Am shooting war in the Falklands. Stick that in yer pipe and smoke it." And I stomped off, brushing the muck off my beret. (I was going to write shite, but figured the expletive checker might pull it ...) This really brought the ruination of his day down to the level mine was at, and it was loud enough that the whole of the LAD, two sabre squadrons of Scorpions and most of the Regiment's senior NCOs on their way to NAAFI break in the Mess heard it. And when I said things like this, people knew who I knew ... Within 15 minutes, C Squadron Leader was banging on the Colonel's desk asking if it was true that their jolly to Oz was off and we were going to have to play Soldiers for real instead? Anyway, needless to say History shows the Blues and Royals provided the Recce element during the Falklands War and that the Argies were able to advance backwards more quickly over the marshland than the RHG/D Scimitars could advance to contact. So C Squadron 15/19H did indeed go to Oz for 6 weeks, and a squadron of Aussies came to BAOR. Our B Squadron was tasked during the first week with familiarising the Aussies with their vehicles, so that our drivers took their drivers out, our commanders showed them how the radio kit worked and gunners showed them tricks for stowing their kit (there was to be no live firing, so why bother teaching them the intricacies of Scorpion gunnery?). Having taught them how to stow their tinnies in the smoke dischargers, I took a right bollocking for forgetting to remind them that constant vibration of a tinny resting on the firing pin of a smoke discharger had the unfortunate tendency to push a hole into the base of the can which, having been shaken, would then make pretty foam patterns when the hole perforated the tin, so "Don't forget to line the bottom of the smoke discharger tube with some cotton waste." I tried stowing kit up the barrel, which wasn't so bad, but if the gun depressed below horizontal, the sound of cans sliding down the barrel was disconcerting and beside, the commander had better things to do than keeping opening the breech whenever I wanted, say, a can of rice. Of course, a can of rice inserted into a 76mm blank turned it into quite an efficient grapeshot round, but one doesn't do that sort of thing. does one? ;o) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 AlienFTM Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 Not certain about the Spartan, but having spent more than a little time sticking out of the top of a Sultan, the cupola was traversed by hand, pushing on a handgrip not unlike a motorbike's, mounted vertically. Thinking about, isn't this how the Mark 2 Ferret's turret was traversed too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Joris Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 Brilliant stories mate! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Yorkie Posted March 30, 2006 Author Share Posted March 30, 2006 We had the CP version of the Saracen, before moving on to Sultans. Never aqua-planed a Sarrie, though I did once or twice achieve this feat in the panzer, through traffic lights on one occasion. Alien - thee and me probably did time in the same garrison town in BAOR. Rhymes with wet mould? Might even have some mutual acquaintences? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 AlienFTM Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 We had the CP version of the Saracen, before moving on to Sultans. Never aqua-planed a Sarrie, though I did once or twice achieve this feat in the panzer, through traffic lights on one occasion. Alien - thee and me probably did time in the same garrison town in BAOR. Rhymes with wet mould? Might even have some mutual acquaintences? No mate, in my time we were the other side of Sennelager Training Area from you (rhymes with badder morn). I transferred out in 82, 15/19H moved to Bovvy in 84 and were posted to your neck of the woods probably 18 months later on Panzers I do believe. When you say you had the CP version of the Sarrie bus, do you mean the Sarrie ACV or the Sarrie APCRA, the double decker that struggled to reach about 20 mph it was so heavy? When we deployed in 77, they gave us APCRAs by mistake: we soon swapped them for ACVs, until we were issued with Sultans a couple of years later. The APCRA was a complete waste of time. It may have been 14" higher (IIRC) and allowed you stand up, but it was no wider and so effectively gave you no more space. I saw a picture of a Sarrie ACV on this forum this week from a meet maybe last weekend. It gave me a warm feeling. Reminds me of the summer of 77 on Salisbury Plain. I was driving the Squadron Leader in his FFR and we arrived at FHQ just as they were manouevring the ACV into position. However, somebody was having trouble with his lefts and rights and he managed to reverse it straight into the only giant gorse bush for miles around. We could move a Sarrie with the back door latched open to give the operator some air (as we had in Omagh previously to get rifles on show), something you couldn't do with the huge back door on the Sultan. I found sealed in and sitting sideways in the rocking back of a soft-suspended Sultan with no external reference points made me sea-sick, even though I sailed for the Army - did you find that? So my mukker in the back of the Sarrie suddenly found himself sat next to a gorse bush. And him a hayfever sufferer and it being a dry summer ... It was some sight when he started a sneezing fit and the whole Sarrie shook at the venom of it all. It even brought a smile to the Squadron Leader's face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Yorkie Posted March 30, 2006 Author Share Posted March 30, 2006 do you mean the Sarrie ACV or the Sarrie APCRA, The RA version, though we didn't get out in them much. We tended to be light, using FFR Series III as CP, a couple of G10 RLs, SS11 missile trucks and 3 or 4 MK bowsers. As for the ride, I always managed to get a seat with a view. Sitting on that fuel tank wasn't my idea of riding into battle in style. Check your PM, mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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Yorkie
..for the canvas cover for the hole in the cab roof of many of our trucks - RL, early MK, Millies and MATs, sometimes referred to as a 'Hip Ring'?
I remember fitting a few in my younger days, but age has addled my memory for the correct name. :cry:
Got a feeling I might be looking for one soon.
Cheers,
Andy
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