Getting a deactivated firearm proofed

[MP40]

Hi everyone, I'm new to the forum and have a quick question.

 

I own a WW2 Germany-deactivated MP40 and need to get it proofed. I understand there are two UK proofing houses - one in Birmingham, the other in London.

 

Can anyone tell me how I go about doing that? And if I turn up there with a deactivated (but not UK-proofed firearm) will I get arrested (or something) for having what the law may regard as an illegal firearm?

 

Thanks for your help.

 

Max

[Marmite!!]

Has it been deactivated to UK spec? if so who carried out the work... a RFD?? if so best let the RFD submit it... if not deactivated by a RFD your best option would be to surrender the weapon to him & let them carry out the proper deac work & let them submit it for proofing...

 

If it's still registered on ticket then you could be walking around with a live firearm in the eyes of the law if it's not deactivated to current spec..

Edited March 21, 2009 by Marmite!!

[morris c8 fat]

I took mine to the London office Commercial Road E1 but they got a dealer to Re deactivate to new spec cost around 30 quid all in

[Tony B]

Best bet is to ask the proof house for a recomendation, if you don't have a pet gun dealear. The offence with any banned item coming under the firearms act, is pocession. don't have to prove you own it, you have it eg your guilty. Holding something on a non UK ticket or permit is a minefeild area. Best get it into store at a local gun shop, no more than a couple of quid a week. In defence of British firearms officers, they can be sensible. When I was getting divorced I knew sh'd stir it, so I put my guns in store with a dealear. Sure enough she went crying tio her local bobbies, they phoned my FA officer who phoned me, and I could tell him exactaly what I'd done and why and how. He was more than happy. No further grief.

Edited March 21, 2009 by Tony B

[MP40]

Thanks for the replies.

 

It was de-activated in Germany recently (past 12 months) and can be stripped and dry fired. This, am I right in saying, is consistent with a pre-95 UK deactivation?

 

When I get the proofing house to approve it, will they insist on carrying out the newer UK deactivation type and start welding things?

 

Also, does turning up there with a non-UK approved deact put me the wrong side of the law?

 

Max

[Marmite!!]

Thanks for the replies.

 

It was de-activated in Germany recently (past 12 months) and can be stripped and dry fired. This, am I right in saying, is consistent with a pre-95 UK deactivation?

 

When I get the proofing house to approve it, will they insist on carrying out the newer UK deactivation type and start welding things?

 

Also, does turning up there with a non-UK approved deact put me the wrong side of the law?

 

Max

 

You could get it a lot of trouble, deac standards for other countries are not recognised in the UK, what you have done could be considered as importing a firearm without an FAC or an Import Licence. You were lucky you were not stopped at the port. :stop:

 

When you submit it to the proof house they just carry out an inspection & not extra work to bring it up to standards, they are likely to seize the weapon.

 

As stated already, hand it over to a RFD immediately for the deac work to be checked & submitted to a proof house.

 

Where are you? I may know a RFD in your area.

[Grasshopper]

For the uneducated among us, what is an RFD?

[Marmite!!]

For the uneducated among us, what is an RFD?

 

Registered Firearms Dealer :-D

[ferretfixer]

Thanks for the replies.

 

It was de-activated in Germany recently (past 12 months) and can be stripped and dry fired. This, am I right in saying, is consistent with a pre-95 UK deactivation?

 

When I get the proofing house to approve it, will they insist on carrying out the newer UK deactivation type and start welding things?

 

Also, does turning up there with a non-UK approved deact put me the wrong side of the law?

 

Max

 

 

BOTTOM LINE:

 

 

 

 

It is NOT UK De-Act, Proofed with cert. = It is in the eyes of the Law, 'still live'. It does NOT matter if this weapon was Pre 95 Proofed abroad. It WILL have to be reworked to current spec. IE: Welded up!

 

 

If found with it in it's present state, no matter what excuse, the penalty is Five years enforced holiday = NO excuse! :stop:

Your best bet is to hand to a section 5 RFD who will do all that is nessacary for you with no problem. It is also an offence to import a 'Firearm' into the uk without a vaild licence. :shocked: In this case a Home Office issued Section 5 Authority. If you need help, PM me & this can be sorted Legally & quickly.

 

Mike. (A REAL Professional Armourer) :yay:

[MP40]

You could get it a lot of trouble, deac standards for other countries are not recognised in the UK, what you have done could be considered as importing a firearm without an FAC or an Import Licence. You were lucky you were not stopped at the port. :stop:

 

When you submit it to the proof house they just carry out an inspection & not extra work to bring it up to standards, they are likely to seize the weapon.

 

As stated already, hand it over to a RFD immediately for the deac work to be checked & submitted to a proof house.

 

Where are you? I may know a RFD in your area.

 

For future reference, what is the accepted method of importing deactivated firearms from Europe?

 

So, in the meantime, I need to call an RFD who will arrange for the weapon to be submitted to a proof house, checked and certed. And, if the deactivation has been done correctly, they won't carry out any further work on it?

 

Will I be prosecuted retrospectively for importing it without a licence?

 

Any idea of how much the RFD and proofing house would charge for this?

 

Appreciate your help.

 

Max

[Tony B]

It will go down on the RFD books as 'handed in by person unknown'. The view is taken beter to get a gun off tghe street. It happens quite often when grandpa dies and the Bren gun, Bazzoka etc he brought home as war souvenirs are found in the attic.

[Marmite!!]

For future reference, what is the accepted method of importing deactivated firearms from Europe?

 

So, in the meantime, I need to call an RFD who will arrange for the weapon to be submitted to a proof house, checked and certed. And, if the deactivation has been done correctly, they won't carry out any further work on it?

 

Will I be prosecuted retrospectively for importing it without a licence?

 

Any idea of how much the RFD and proofing house would charge for this?

 

Appreciate your help.

 

Max

 

Get a RFD to import a deac for you... remember when importing form another country you should treat all deacs as live weapons until it has been proofed..

 

If you put the weapon in the care of a RFD asap it's unlikely you will find yourself in any further trouble.

 

The proof house won't carry out any further work when submitted just for an inspection.

 

When choosing a RFD make sure they carry out deac work, not all RFD's do..

 

Prices vary depending on the amount of work involved..

 

Also remember that UK specs are not recognised in Europe, a deac .50 cal was seized & a fine handed out to a reenactor in France last year..

Edited March 22, 2009 by Marmite!!

[ferretfixer]

For future reference, what is the accepted method of importing deactivated firearms from Europe?

 

So, in the meantime, I need to call an RFD who will arrange for the weapon to be submitted to a proof house, checked and certed. And, if the deactivation has been done correctly, they won't carry out any further work on it?

 

Will I be prosecuted retrospectively for importing it without a licence?

 

Any idea of how much the RFD and proofing house would charge for this?

 

Appreciate your help.

 

Max

 

The LEGAL way is to get an Approved Sec 5 RFD to import it for you on your behalf. I have a collegue who does this in a big way all the time.

If you get it to a Sec 5 RFD ASAP. He will take it in & do the Nessacary work & submit the item & get a certificate for it. It is then done. ALL in, work plus cert shopuldnt cost you more than £50 quid. :yay:

 

As for prosecution, If you say nothing & hand it to said RFD, you should be OK. He's is not interested in getting you 'done'. He just wants your money & has the Licence to get you out of a position that is bad for you to say the least!. It's only when you go to the Authorities & say what you have done. Then they will jump on you big time! Im my expirience, half the time they dont even know thier own rules (Just like VOSA!) DONT go to the proof house yourself, they have an obligation to seize the item & report you. Go to an aproved Sec.5 RFD. :yay:

[MP40]

Fellas

 

A big thanks for all your help. Seems there isn't agreement on whether the proof house will just approve the Euro deactivation OR weld it up to bring in line with UK deact standards. Does anyone know for sure what they will do?

 

Ferretfixer - can you give me the details of the guy who imports deacts, as there is another MP40 I'm looking at that's in Germany. Probably best to do it the RIGHT way next time...:nono:

 

Thanks

 

Max

[sas pinkie]

Fellas

 

Seems there isn't agreement on whether the proof house will just approve the Euro deactivation OR weld it up to bring in line with UK deact standards. Does anyone know for sure what they will do?

 

 

Thanks

 

Max

 

Hi Max,

 

The Proof House wont do either the deactivation or welding work. They are purely and inspector. Think of them like the MOT tester. They wont rectify any issues or do any work, they just test your car and let you know what it fails on.

 

The proof house is the same, they will just look at a weapon, and either pass or fail it. That is why you need the RFD. He is like your local garage mechanic, he does all the work required to get the proof house to pass the weapon. the RDF is the guy that will do the welding work on your weapon. HE is the one that will look at it initially and tell you if it will pass in its current state or not, and then HE will do the work required and submit it to the proof house for its "MOT".

 

Hope that helps awnsers your question, and clear the confusion.

[MP40]

That makes perfect sense; thank you

[Marmite!!]

Fellas

 

Seems there isn't agreement on whether the proof house will just approve the Euro deactivation OR weld it up to bring in line with UK deact standards. Does anyone know for sure what they will do?

 

 

 

Max

 

Think what has been said in the replies clears that up.. if it's up to UK Spec they will proof it, if not & they think it falls short of deac standards they will probably hold on to it... as said don't worry about what a proof house will or will not do, just get it to a RFD asap & let them handle it...

[gps]

just out of intrest ,do you need a firearm certificate to hold deactevated wepons or replicas.:???

[Tony B]

Here we are into a very , trying to think of a polite word, situiation. A British proof housed de-ac, no no permit or anything required just cash. To own a Realistic Replica, you must be a member of a recognised re-enactment group with third party liability insurance or one of the other meandering, baffaling complex requirments.

[gps]

what if it fires blanks or one i saw ran on gas to make the bang and this in turn moved the brech.

[ArtistsRifles]

what if it fires blanks or one i saw ran on gas to make the bang and this in turn moved the brech.

 

Lee's (SafariSwing) the man for this one but - IIR - deac's cannot be converted to blank or gas firing, only replica's???

[ferretfixer]

Fellas

 

A big thanks for all your help. Seems there isn't agreement on whether the proof house will just approve the Euro deactivation OR weld it up to bring in line with UK deact standards. Does anyone know for sure what they will do?

 

Ferretfixer - can you give me the details of the guy who imports deacts, as there is another MP40 I'm looking at that's in Germany. Probably best to do it the RIGHT way next time...:nono:

 

Thanks

 

Max

Max: PM Me. Mike :coffee:

[ferretfixer]

what if it fires blanks or one i saw ran on gas to make the bang and this in turn moved the brech.

 

If it is a Blank Firer, this now falls under the VCR Act.

You neeed to be an Accredited member of a Historical Re-Enactment or living History group to be able to buy/ sell this class of Replica. :nono:

 

It is NOT illegal to own or possess one. :yay:

 

Blank Firing Replicas can be converted from Inert Replicas, or scratch built (If building, must comply with the above RE:VCR Act) be they blank or gas firing. :confused:

IT IS ILLEGAL TO CONVERT A DEACT TO FIRE, PERIOD! :stop:

 

If you need any more help, PM me. :coffee:

[gps]

i was told by a fellow that older guns muskets cannons ect you must have a black powder licence as they could be fired as there is no true way of deactivating them without destroying them ?:??? is this so :???

[Marmite!!]

i was told by a fellow that older guns muskets cannons ect you must have a black powder licence as they could be fired as there is no true way of deactivating them without destroying them ?:??? is this so :???

 

 

ANTIQUES

The provisions of the Firearms Acts 1968 to 1997 do not apply to any antique firearm held as a curiosity or

ornament. The word 'antique' is not defined in the Act, but it is suggested that the categories below should be used

as a guide in deciding whether a particular firearm might be considered an 'antique' for these purposes.

Part I: Old weapons which should benefit from exemption as antiques under section 58 (2) of the Firearms

Act 1968

(a) All muzzle-loading firearms;

(b) Breech-loading firearms capable of discharging a rim-fire cartridge other than 4mm, 5mm, .22” or .23” (or their metric equivalents), 6mm or 9mm rimfire;

© Breech-loading firearms using ignition systems other than rimfire and centrefire (These include pin-fire and

needle-fire ignition systems, as well as the more obscure lip fire, cup-primed, teat fire and base fire systems);

(d) Breech-loading centre-fire arms originally chambered for one of the obsolete cartridges listed in Annex B and

which retain their original chambering;

 

 

 

(e) Vintage (pre 1939) rifles, shotguns and punt guns chambered for the following cartridges expressed in imperial measurements: 32 bore 24 bore, 14 bore, 10 bore (2 5/8" and 2 7/8

 

” only), 8 bore, 4 bore, 3 bore, 2 bore, 1 1/8 bore, 1 1/4 bore and 1 1/2 bore, and vintage punt guns and shotguns with bores of 10 or greater.

 

 

 

 

Note (i) - The exemption does not apply to ammunition, and the possession of live ammunition suitable for use with an otherwise antique firearm will normally indicate that the firearm is not possessed as a curio or ornament.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Note (ii) - The exemption does not apply to firearms of modern manufacture which otherwise conform to the description above. Fully working modern firing replicas of muzzle-loading and breech-loading firearms, for example those used to fire blanks by historical re-enactment societies but capable of firing live ammunition, must be held on certificate. For these purposes, 'modern manufacture' should be taken to mean manufacture after the outbreak of the Second World War in 1939.

 

 

 

 

 

Old weapons which should not benefit from the exemption as antiques under section 58(2) of the Firearms

 

 

 

 

 

Act 1968

 

 

 

 

 

 

NB: This list is not exhaustive and there may be other types and calibres of firearms that should be considered

 

 

 

 

 

 

'modern' rather than 'antique'.

 

(a) Shotguns and smooth-bored guns, including shot pistols, chambered for standard shot gun cartridges, .22

 

inch, .23 inch, 6mm and 9mm rim-fire cartridges;).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(b) Rifles and handguns chambered for 4mm, 5mm, .22 inch, .23 inch, 6mm or 9mm rim-fire ammunition;

 

 

 

 

 

© Revolvers, single-shot pistols and self-loading pistols which are chambered for, and will accept, popular centre-fire cartridges of the type .25, .32, .38, .380, .44, .450, .455 and .476 inch, or their metric equivalents including 6.35, 7.62, 7.63, 7.65 , 8 and 9mm, unless otherwise specified;

 

 

 

 

 

(d) Modern reproduction firearms or old firearms which have been modified to allow the use of shotgun cartridges or cartridges not listed in Annex B;

 

 

 

 

(e) Extensively modified weapons (eg Sawn off shotguns);

 

 

 

 

(f) Very signalling pistols chambered for 1 and 1 1/2 inch cartridges or 26.5/27mm cartridges;

 

 

 

 

 

 

(g) Pump-action and self-loading centre fire rifles, except that examples originally chambered for one of the

 

 

obsolete cartridges listed at Annex B and retaining that original chambering, may benefit from exemption as

 

 

 

 

 

 

antiques under section 58(2) of the Firearms Act 1968 (as amended)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

For complete list of obsolete calibres see attachment.. Home Office letter

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

antiques firearms.pdf

Edited May 8, 2009 by Marmite!!