Registering and taxing aging MVs

[N.O.S.]

You can REGISTER it as what you want, it only appears as a "description" on the Vehicle Registration Document.

 

The key is - regardless of what you register it as, it is the TAXATION CLASS which determines what you can or cannot do with it on the highway, and what testing requirements and carrying/towing restristions apply.

 

 

 

 

If you look at the document Grumpy put up in post 6 it clearly states under Qualifying Vehicles -

 

d) mobile cranes/pumps.....

 

This is because a mobile crane simply travels along the highway unladedn from job to job.

 

The list of body options gives "breakdown truck". This is the same as a recovery truck, but again I think you'll find that you cannot use it to "recover" vehicles along the highway if operating under "Historic" taxation class.

 

 

Isn't the long and the short of it like this:

 

HISTORIC tax allows you to run an old vehicle around on the highway at zero tax, and if over 3500kg without the need for a test, but -

 

for that most generous concession,

do not expect to be allowed to do much else with it!

Edited March 5, 2009 by Marmite!!
quote tags

[N.O.S.]

The evidence of the DVLA's dealing with such vehicles also suggest that they don't consider it a problem to have a Recovery truck on an Historic Vehicle tax class??

Jules

 

I'm sure they don't see it as a problem Jules, because under Historic taxation I don't think you are permitted to "recover" anything on the public highway (other than possibly to move something as short a distance as possible to clear the highway as has already been suggested).

 

I think the point Grumpy was making was that you cannot operate a Recovery vehicle as a Recovery vehicle under Historic tax - you can only run it around unladen.

 

It seems that the choice of description of the vehicle has no bearing on what you can do wth it on the highway under Historic tax class.

 

Although you would expect them to require you to select from a standard list of body options - they even made their own up for my Autocar in October :-D :-D

Edited March 5, 2009 by N.O.S.

[Grumpy]

Joules

Have you bothered to read the first post I put on this thread, I enclosed the DVLA guidance notes on VED Exemption for Historic Vehicles, it clearly shows that a recovery vehicle is not eligible for free VED. I’ll enclose it again click on the link, have a read & make your own mind up.

 

INF34-Notes on Historic Tax.pdf

[Grumpy]

 

I think the point Grumpy was making was that you cannot operate a Recovery vehicle as a Recovery vehicle under Historic tax - you can only run it around unladen.

 

 

 

But it is then no longer a Recovery Truck and therefore cannot claim Exemption from MOT / Plating for being a Recovery Truck

[Adrian Barrell]

Presumably, a vehicle that, by virtue of it's weight, would have to be plated and tested as opposed to any other class of test, would be exempt from plating and testing if it is pre 1960, used unladen etc. etc.

 

I always assumed it needed to be a good vehicle to claim exemption but reading the form it states a motor vehicle, pre 1960 etc. I think this covers any large vehicle that would normally have to be plated and tested. So although a recovery vehicle is exempt anyway, I believe it still would be if it meets the weight/ age/ use criterion simply because if it were tested, it would have to be a plate and test and it is exempt from this requirement if used as above.

 

As class VII only covers up to 3500kg, the only test applicable is a full HGV test.

[antarmike]

If a vehicle is not a recovery truck, it might well be a locomotive, and gain exemption from testing because of this.

 

Re test exeptions

 

Section 47 Road traffic Act 1988 Reg 6 Motor Vehicle (tests) regulations 1981

 

S47 (requirement for a test certificate) does not apply to the following vehicles.

(1) Heavy Locomotive.

(ii) Light Locomotive.

(iii) motor Tractor.

 

__________________

[ArtistsRifles]

But it is then no longer a Recovery Truck and therefore cannot claim Exemption from MOT / Plating for being a Recovery Truck

 

If you have a prized Scammell or AEC Wrecker that you've lovingly restored - would you WANT to use it as a recovery vehicle???

 

Seem to me such a vehicle would benefit more from the Historic Vehicle tax class and being able to use the £180 or whatever thus saved for fuel and repairs.... Or even an MOT if there is no other exemption route possible???

[Grumpy]

If a vehicle is not a recovery truck, it might well be a locomotive, and gain exemption from testing because of this.

 

Re test exeptions

 

Section 47 Road traffic Act 1988 Reg 6 Motor Vehicle (tests) regulations 1981

 

S47 (requirement for a test certificate) does not apply to the following vehicles.

(1) Heavy Locomotive.

(ii) Light Locomotive.

(iii) motor Tractor.

 

__________________

 

:clap:

Top of the class Mike, someone finally understands. Lesson here; don’t call it a Recovery Vehicle, call it anything else but NOT a Recovery Vehicle

[antarmike]

Just to clarify, Locomotive is a vehicle description, not a taxation class. A Locomotive can, I believe, be legitimately taxed as Historic Vehicle.

[antarmike]

But if they were converted to haulage vehicles presumably they were taxed as such, and not taxed as Recovery Trucks

 

ISTR Antarmike described the registration of his Antar as a Heavy Locomotive, and he runs on STGO2, but I can't find the post.

 

Mike - are you still able to tax the Antar as Historic, and can you remind us what what vehicle testing do you need to comply with, or do you tax, test and and run it as a private HGV vehicle?

 

Jim, if you go for private HGV, you would have to pay £175 odd tax and would you not then need to have the vehicle tested annually, regardless of age?

 

 

Locomotive is not a taxation class. I am registered Historic. The term Heavy (or Light) Locomotive is a vehicle description. (like heavy motor car, dual purpose vehicle, etc.) Locomotives are exept plating and testing.

If the vehicle is not itself designed to carry a load, (except tools equipment fuel, ballast weights etc.), it is a locomotive (of Motor tractor) depending on unladen weight.

[Grumpy]

Just to clarify, Locomotive is a vehicle description, not a taxation class. A Locomotive can, I believe, be legitimately taxed as Historic Vehicle.

 

Yes it would be classed as a Haulage Vehicle, on INF34

e) Haulage Vehicles – not used for haulage purposes.

But note; it cannot be used for haulage purposes i.e. not towing a trailer or under STGO:nono:

[N.O.S.]

There is no point in calling it a Recovery Truck simply to gain test exemption, as it would already (if pre 1960) be exempt from testing under Historic taxation.

 

The only reason I can think for keeping it as a Recovery truck is to be able to recover with it, in which case it cannot be taxed Historic.

 

At the risk of getting keyboard RSI, I will repeat my suggestion that you can call it what you want - even a Recovery Vehicle - because IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE TO HOW YOU TAX IT!!!!! I think most of our log books demonstrate that, mine certainly do :-D

 

For example, you could call it a Recovery vehicle but tax it Historic, you can then only use "Historically".

 

By the same token I'm certain you could also register, or describe a vehicle as a Goods Vehicle or anything else and tax it as Recovery in which case you could use it for recovery, but only under the terms of use of that taxation class.

[N.O.S.]

If the vehicle is not itself designed to carry a load, (except tools equipment fuel, ballast weights etc.), it is a locomotive (of Motor tractor) depending on unladen weight.

 

A description which fits both Pioneer and Explorer quite well, does it not?

 

I can see that this approach could have advantages for a post 1960 vehicle, but have we not just established that describing a pre-1960 vehicle as a Locomotive gives no advantage over describing it as anything else? :-D:-D:-D

[john fox]

A description which fits both Pioneer and Explorer quite well, does it not?

 

I can see that this approach could have advantages for a post 1960 vehicle, but have we not just established that describing a pre-1960 vehicle as a Locomotive gives no advantage over describing it as anything else? :-D:-D:-D

 

I do not know Explorers and Pioneers that well and suspect they are not capable of such speeds, but please be aware that how you describe the vehicle can rebound on you when using it on the road because certain descriptions mean your max road speed is limited and you could be prosecuted for speeding. (Section 86 (1) and Schedule 6 Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984)

 

http://www.dcsafetycameras.org/education/carDrivers/index.aspx

 

Motor Tractors and Locomotives (without trailer) are limited to 40mph on motorways and 30mph on all other roads (irrespective of the actual speed limit of the road itself).

 

(Ferrets and Foxes are more than capable of these speeds on A roads yet VOSA described both to me as "motor tractors").

 

Of course you might be very happy if a Pioneer actually hit 30mph :yay::???

Edited March 6, 2009 by john fox

[N.O.S.]

Good point John.

 

Jimh - has your Pioneer query been answered to your satisfaction?

 

 

Just looking at the range of variations for heavy (+7.5t) vehicles, the following is my own understanding (I might be wrong), with purple showing the bits I know I don't know!!

 

Possibly the main area of uncertainty arises with towing a vehicle or laden trailer (whether it be taking a towed or trailed vehicle to a show, or hauling home your latest purchase), and what effect this has on driver licence and vehicle test requirements.

 

I've only put this list up to act as a catalyst for discussion - if anyone wants to challenge what I think I know, or fill in the gaps in my knowledge, please feel free. No offence will be taken if it helps others!!

 

Age of Vehicle

 

A. Pre 1960

B. Pre 1974, post 1960

C. Post 1974

 

Intended Use

 

1. Use unladen, towing empty trailer (i.e. recreational)

2. Use laden or towing laden trailer (e.g. taking vehicle to show or collecting new toy)

3. Use for recovery or towing disabled vehicle (not hire/reward) e.g. towing a friend's truck home

4. Use for Hire and Reward work (e.g. recovery, delivering vehicles)

 

Dealing with Hire and Reward up front -

 

It seems that, regardless of vehicle age, if used for any type of Hire/Reward work then some paid road tax is required (e.g. HGV / Recovery), and (unless described as a "Locomotive" or taxed as Recovery) annual vehicle testing too.

 

Pre 1960

 

- Historic tax

- No annual test

- Driving licence requirement?

- If used laden/towing laden trailer, testing? Driving licence requirement?

 

Post 1960/pre 1974

 

- Historic tax

- Annual testing

- HGV driving licence?

- Possible registration as Locomotive/special types for no annual testing, but restrictions on use?

- Possible simplified annual test if overwidth or cannot roller brake test?

 

Post 1974

 

- Tax as Private HGV

- Annual test required

- HGV licence reqd

- Possible registration as Locomotive/special types for no annual testing, but restrictions on use?

- Possible simplified annual test if overwidth or cannot roller brake test?

Edited March 7, 2009 by N.O.S.

[antarmike]

A description which fits both Pioneer and Explorer quite well, does it not?

 

I can see that this approach could have advantages for a post 1960 vehicle, but have we not just established that describing a pre-1960 vehicle as a Locomotive gives no advantage over describing it as anything else? :-D:-D:-D

 

One advantage is a locomotive can be 2.75 metres wide, whereas most other vehicles are limited to 2.55 Metres.

[antarmike]

Post 1960/pre 1974

 

- Historic tax

- Annual testing

- HGV driving licence?

- Possible registration as Locomotive or special types? but restrictions on use?

 

 

A vehicle cannot be registered or taxed as a locomotive..it is a vehicle description, not a taxation class.

[N.O.S.]

One advantage is a locomotive can be 2.75 metres wide, whereas most other vehicles are limited to 2.55 Metres.

 

That could be very useful for some vehicles. Don't suppose this bit of info would help Artistrifles would it? An OT90 would make a fantastic Heavy Locomotive!

 

Am I correct in thinking you could also describe a wide (+2.55m) vehicle with a winch as a Winch Truck? Surely it would then be eligible to come under Special Types Taxation i.e. outside C+U Regs. (not restricted by width and not requiring testing).

 

And if pre 1974 you could then tax it as historic? Which is excactly what DVLA did with my RAF Constructor (which just missed the 1960 cut-off date!).

 

But then again, you really do need to run your own circumstance by VOSA / DVLA to be certain you are complying with all the legislation :sweat:

[antarmike]

That could be very useful for some vehicles. Don't suppose this bit of info would help Artistrifles would it? An OT90 would make a fantastic Heavy Locomotive!

 

Am I correct in thinking you could also describe a wide (+2.55m) vehicle with a winch as a Winch Truck? Surely it would then be eligible to come under Special Types Taxation i.e. outside C+U Regs. (not restricted by width and not requiring testing).

 

And if pre 1974 you could then tax it as historic? Which is excactly what DVLA did with my RAF Constructor (which just missed the 1960 cut-off date!).

 

But then again, you really do need to run your own circumstance by VOSA / DVLA to be certain you are complying with all the legislation :sweat:

 

 

I believe an OT90 is intended to carry a load, or troops?? I do not think it is a suitable candidate for Loco.

 

A winch truck is not recognised as a "special types" vehicle unless you intend to call it "engineering plant".

[ArtistsRifles]

I believe an OT90 is intended to carry a load, or troops?? I do not think it is a suitable candidate for Loco.

 

A winch truck is not recognised as a "special types" vehicle unless you intend to call it "engineering plant".

 

 

If I bolt a dozer blade to the front can I get away with that for some sort of valid over-width tax class???

[N.O.S.]

A winch truck is not recognised as a "special types" vehicle unless you intend to call it "engineering plant".

 

And previously (from me) -

 

"which is exactly what DVLA did with my RAF Constructor...."

 

:confused:

Edited March 6, 2009 by N.O.S.

[Mk3iain]

Hi

Can I resurrect this thread whith an obervation/question.

I have noticed over the years some vehicles including Bedford MJs, being advertised as "registered agricultural".

What is to be gained here? surely you cannot run on red diesel ! I would think it would only be "agricultural" if its primary use is for for that purpose. Also for all the other "dodges" you see being tried!!

And another thing..... having made my living as an "owner driver" I get pi**.ed off seing JCB Fasttracks pulling loads:mad:

Iain

 

Is it just me?

[antarmike]

An obvious advantage of Agric is that they are exempt testing. You need to maintain to the same standards as MOT but avoid having to pay for a test.

 

To be Agric a vehicle has to be (quoting from memory, I'll post legal definition tinight when I have a book in front of me)

constructed or adapted for Agricultural, horticultural of forestry purposes (and I believe fisheries) and used primarily for that purpose.

 

An Agric machine has to be used primarily for Agricultural or Forestry purposes. It is permissible to use on occasions for Social , Domestic or pleasure. It is a misuse of the licence to have an Agric Machine and for it not to be employed primarily for Agriculture. You would be taxed in the the wrong taxation class if the Agric Machine spends most of its time for SDP use, going to shows, rallies and events etc.

[Mk3iain]

Many thanks.

 

I think an important point is "and used primarily for that purpose."

 

Not really suitable for most of us but you see it being tried!

 

Cheers

Iain

[griff66]

there is a consultation going on now at dvla about taking away ten exempion classes that will affect us searh at dvla mot testing exemptions consultation.