question Low Loader/Plant Truck/Transport Question

[madrat]

HI All,

As you may already have gathered I have a passion for large rusty mv's and living in the middle of nowhere! I also have a habit of buying slow 'not great on the road' type stuff.

 

I would dearly love to get to more shows and the only way that is going to happen is if I sort out transport for my toys. All the big shows are an 900 mile round trip for me :cry:

 

I am completely ignorant of anything truck related but have come to the conclusion that I have two options!

 

1) Tractor unit and low loader trailer

2) Plant type rigid truck

 

 

I would appreciate information from anyone on the following:

 

 

 

• Recommendations, what do you use and why?
  
• What to avoid
  
• Tax, testing and insurance advice
  
• Suitability to carry a tracked vehicle of 14 tons, a stolly and a Scammell
  

 

 

I will have a limited budget too! I've spent all my money saving mv's from the international Olympic committee :-D

Edited September 11, 2008 by madrat
blithering imcompetance

[AndyFowler]

Why not arrange a show near to your home and let everyone else get lowloaders Dunc ! :-D I'll be interested to hear the replies to mate ! Good thread ! :bow:

[madrat]

Why not arrange a show near to your home and let everyone else get lowloaders Dunc !

 

Great Idea, just need to think of a good name now. Obviously I would provide the dancing girls

 

:dancinggirls::dancinggirls:

 

 

 

I'll be interested to hear the replies to mate ! Good thread ! :bow:

 

Figured that other folks must have thought about transport issues and there is a wealth of information on here. Would be nice to gather all that info in one thread, for instance I didn't know there was private HGV tax?! And I'm still not clear on the limitations!

[antarmike]

You are aware that the stalwart is overwidth for use on the road under its own power , or to be carried as a load, without applying for a Movement order two days before each journey.

 

Since you do not ask questions about driver licencing I assume you hold either C orC+E category, or neither option is open to you at present.

[N.O.S.]

I didn't know there was private HGV tax?! And I'm still not clear on the limitations!

 

Best check with a grown-up :whistle:, but I've worked on basis that private HGV taxation allows you to use a truck for your own joys, i.e. NOT hire and reward, subject to the truck being ministry tested and used within its plated carrying capacity. Tax was £160 last time I did it wth an 8 wheel tipper some years back.

 

What width is Stalwart then???????? Seems a bit strange to me :confused: And what width does movement order kick in?

[AndyFowler]

What width is Stalwart then???????? Seems a bit strange to me :confused: And what width does movement order kick in? Oh no here we go again ! :rofl::rofl:

[antarmike]

opps, I answered without thinking. You DON'T need a movement order for carrying one on a trailer or vehicle. A load can be 9' 6".

 

The Stalwart is 103" (8' 7") that is overwidth for moveing on its own wheels. a vehicle such as a stalwart has to comply to a max width of a tad over 8' 4".

 

The Stalwart is 3 inches to wide to drive on the road, (without a movement order) and maybe carrying it as a load has real advantages, because this IS completely legal.

[Mark]

The Stalwart is 103" (8' 7") that is overwidth for moveing on its own wheels. a vehicle such as a stalwart has to comply to a max width of a tad over 8' 4".

 

The Stalwart is 3 inches to wide to drive on the road, (without a movement order) .

 

 

Unless you register it as an agriculture vehicle :cool2:

[N.O.S.]

Oh no here we go again !

 

:nono: :rofl::rofl::n00b:

[snowtracdave]

Unless you register it as an agriculture vehicle :cool2:

 

In which case , as I understand it , you are restricted to use within something like two miles of your registered base of operations , and then only on legitimate agricultural useage .

[N.O.S.]

Well just register it as special types £180 or whatever it is and be done with it. Then if you say it is also historic they may just register it as historic without any trouble. As has been said before, it's a bit of a lottery :sweat:

[madrat]

You are aware that the stalwart is overwidth for use on the road under its own power , or to be carried as a load, without applying for a Movement order two days before each journey.

 

I was aware that it is over width to be registered, I am aware of the movement order but could you explain it in more detail to me please?

 

If I were to purchase another stolly which is already registered for the road I presume that I could use that (On the road) provided that I applied for a movement order?

 

Since you do not ask questions about driver licencing I assume you hold either C orC+E category, or neither option is open to you at present.

 

At the moment I have neither, so a rigid vehicle might be a better start point if it will do what I need.

[AndyFowler]

Register it in Eastern Europe and do whatever you like !!!! :-D

[antarmike]

but wide agricultural vehicles still need to notify, and apply for movement orders.

 

And an agricultural Motor vehicle has to be "constructed or adapted for off road use for the purpose of Agriculture, horticulture or forestry and which is used primarily for one or more of these purposes."

 

It is impossible to show that a Stalwart was designed for these puposes, and what has been done to "adapt" it for these purposes.

Are you able to show that the primary use of the vehicle is agriculture?

The vehicle can only be registered as an Agricultural vehicle if it complies with this definition. And to be used as a "wide" agricultural vehicle it will be subject to a 20 MPH speed limit. Not very practical.

Edited September 11, 2008 by antarmike

[TooTallMike]

Where's that bloomin' popcorn smiley when I need it...

[madrat]

Lets not start the 'registering a wide vehicle debate' I'm tired of that one!!!

 

The Stalwart is 3 inches to wide to drive on the road, (without a movement order) and maybe carrying it as a load has real advantages, because this IS completely legal.

 

That was exactly my thinking, don't piss about with a diesel conversion just get a plant lorry and move it about on that instead! And at the same time get something that I can move the scammell and possibly a 432/tracked rapier on...

[antarmike]

Well just register it as special types £180 or whatever it is and be done with it. Then if you say it is also historic they may just register it as historic without any trouble. As has been said before, it's a bit of a lottery :sweat:

 

You do not register a vehicle as special types. A special types vehicle is a definition not a taxation class. Special types (STGO) is an arrangement to allow vehicles designed for certain purposes to be used on the road, although they do not comply with elements of C and U regs.

[N.O.S.]

My mistake, I meant "Special Vehicles" (that's the Taxation Class).

[antarmike]

In which case , as I understand it , you are restricted to use within something like two miles of your registered base of operations , and then only on legitimate agricultural useage .

 

No you have unlimited milage.

 

The rule about short distant travel, was a permission to use an agricultural vehicle to move short distances by road from one piece of agric land to another field owned by the vehicle keeper, without the need to register or tax the vehicle.

I am not sure if it has now been recinded.

[Richard Grosvenor]

I would seriously look in to the cost involved before rushing out and buying a low loader. I've been there, done that and got the t-shirt.

Unless you are using it every weekend it is cheaper to hire someone to move your pride and joy.

 

I have a Renault Magnum and while it is cheap to tax as a Private HGV ( only £165 a year regardless of plated weight ) and insurance with someone like Footman James is only £122 every thing else mounts up. Plating ( MOT ) is much stricter than with a car and the VOSA man won't give a damn that you only use it every now and then, it will still have to comply to the same standards as a working truck. Tyres are expensive, you're unlikely to wear them out but they will deteriorate and VOSA don't like that. And have you seen the size of a trucks brake discs!?

 

Then you've got the trailer. That needs to be Plated too. Most will have 12 tyres, 6 air bags and 6 brake cambers, all sitting there rotting or seizing up. I'm lucky with a trailer as a friend has 3 I can borrow if i need to.

 

And you've got to buy them in the first place, about £3500 for a unit and possibly a bit more for a descent step frame low loader. The high price a scrap and a strong export market for basic units as put pay to finding a really cheap out fit.

So realistically you're looking at 7-8 grand which would pay for a lot of haulier miles and their truck is up and down the road everyday so should be very reliable ( HGV's don't like standing about ) and if it does brake down it's not your problem.

 

Regards

Richard

[N.O.S.]

At last - someone has corrected the trim on this thread and got it flying nicely Good points Richard.

 

Regarding rigid plant trucks, you also need to consider high centre of gravity when loaded. Decent trucks with low bed height don't come cheap.

 

If you're not put off yet, Madrat, a truck with drum brakes that stands for a long periods should ideally have the brake adjusters wound off (or air pressure maintained with brakes off) so that the brakes don't fail due to drum ovality whenever you get it tested. :argh:

[ArtistsRifles]

Lets not start the 'registering a wide vehicle debate' I'm tired of that one!!!

<snipped>

 

Tell me about it - I'm on the receiving end right now.....

 

My Stalwart is registered as a Historic Military Vehicle - MOT and Tax exempt. Within a range of around 40 miles it's driven to/from events and I've never had any problems with the police In fact - given recent events - if there were going to be any issues I think I'd have been the first to find out......

[Degsy]

No you have unlimited milage.

 

The rule about short distant travel, was a permission to use an agricultural vehicle to move short distances by road from one piece of agric land to another field owned by the vehicle keeper, without the need to register or tax the vehicle.

I am not sure if it has now been recinded.

 

 

Still legal Mike.

[madrat]

Thanks for the info guys, I figured that the tractor/trailer combo would be more expensive and more to go wrong. I have pretty much concluded that the plant truck was the way to go on the following basis:

 

 

• Only one mot and tax requirement
  
• Less to go wrong
  
• Lower initial cost?
  
• Cheaper license to get for me!
  

 

Centre of gravity was a concern, the stolly looked fine on one but I did think that the scammell would either be too top heavy or appear unsafe?

 

I still think this is the way to go, paying another company to transport them to shows will bankrupt me! I reckon for instance that it would cost me £2-3k to attend W&P, I love this hobby but I cannot justify spending that sum of money on transport! I've got too much scrap to buy!

 

My Stalwart is registered as a Historic Military Vehicle - MOT and Tax exempt. Within a range of around 40 miles it's driven to/from events and I've never had any problems with the police In fact - given recent events - if there were going to be any issues I think I'd have been the first to find out......

 

Plan B is to LPG a stolly, fit dog clutches to the driveshafts to make it 6x2 and attend a few local car shows, not quite the same as cruising round W&P in something cool that folk would genuinely appreciate... Obviously I would need to apply for the correct movement papers to do this

[Stormin]

Surely the Pioneer will be upto pulling a decent trailer when completed!

 

I know it's not going to be the thing for a 900 mile trip but I'd be using it were possible.

It'll must be your cheapest way of getting two vehicles to most places.

 

Can't see any means of transporting three vehicles at once unless on an over length low loader, STGO again will require a movement order and cost a fortune.

 

Isn't the Pioneer (8ft 5" I think) awfully close to this maximum width limit?

What is the figure exactly?

 

Bit concerned about the Ward now at 8ft 4" I think.

[Richard Grosvenor]

, paying another company to transport them to shows will bankrupt me! I reckon for instance that it would cost me £2-3k to attend W&P, I love this hobby but I cannot justify spending that sum of money on transport! I've got too much scrap to buy!

 

 

 

I can't see it could cost that much..... can it? The trick would be to find someone to back load your stuff to shows. Mind you looking at your location this may be a bit of a problem.

 

Richard