Val Posted August 25, 2008 Posted August 25, 2008 At the moment, I'm using Clarkes SAE30 oil designed for compressors and garden engines. I read it was a decent replacement for OM13 on some website a while back. But is it any good? What is the best stuff to use? Castrol 15/30w part synthetic? I've read through the various threads here and to be honest I got even more confused lol. Anyways, I'm going to clean out the system and fill it up so would rather use the best stuff. Quote
Marmite!! Posted August 25, 2008 Posted August 25, 2008 (edited) OM13 is ISO 12, ISO 10 & 15 is easily available... I use ISO 10 in the Fox... (from Rye Oils) You're going to need a good few gallons to flush that lot out... Richard Notton wrote.... OM-13 - This stuff still causes a heap of hand wringing, its just ISO 12 or 12cSt hydraulic oil and militarily has a weeny tad of stearic acid added that private owners can wholly ignore. Hydraulic oils change viscosity hugely with temperature and OM 13 is no exception, especially as no Viscosity Index (hydraulic term for "multigrade") improvers (VI) are allowed. As you can see from the chart referenced above, the spec is always at 40ºC and the cold oil is far thicker than at the reference temp. Hydraulic circuits are extremely tolerant (they have to be) and a lot of the mil fittings are commercial parts anyway intended for the middle of the road, to be found in every JCB, ISO 32. You can get Shell Tellus 15 and that's easily close enough but I do have 32 in everything except the very fine manual controls. Lets face it, the systems just think its a bit colder out than it really is and even OM13 is treacle at -25ºC as the spec says so (1250cSt): http://www.dstan.mod.uk/data/91/044/00000100.pdf Edited August 25, 2008 by Marmite!! Quote
sirhc Posted August 25, 2008 Posted August 25, 2008 Val, Where are you putting the SAE30? In the engine is fine, in the gearbox is ok, anywhere else and I think you may need to read the manual again! Chris Quote
Val Posted August 25, 2008 Author Posted August 25, 2008 The SAE 30 is going in the engine bay, left hand side from the front, where it is marked OM13, the manual diagram seems to say this is the right place. Have I broked it? Quote
Marmite!! Posted August 25, 2008 Posted August 25, 2008 Val, Where are you putting the SAE30? In the engine is fine, in the gearbox is ok, anywhere else and I think you may need to read the manual again! Chris That's why I was saying he's going to need a hell of a lot of OM13 to flush that lot out if he's put it in the brakes.... Quote
sirhc Posted August 25, 2008 Posted August 25, 2008 The SAE 30 is going in the engine bay, left hand side from the front, where it is marked OM13, the manual diagram seems to say this is the right place. Have I broked it? Quite possibly, and this may explain why the hose burst. SAE30 is not equivalent to OM13 - ISO10 hydraulic fluid is. SAE30 is OMD110, which is engine oil. Read through this, it's not 100% relevant but might help... http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/lsm/dhmg/fer-oils.html Chris Quote
Marmite!! Posted August 25, 2008 Posted August 25, 2008 Not sure what SAE30 will do to the braking system but when I bought my Fox the guy had put the wrong fluid in... Brake Fluid.... this cost over a grand to put right:coffee: Quote
Richard Farrant Posted August 25, 2008 Posted August 25, 2008 Not sure what SAE30 will do to the braking system OM13 and SAE30 are both mineral oils, so no real harm done in this case, except that the 30 is too thick a viscosity. It should not have got to the brake cylinders so far, so if all the oil is purged through the blown hose, that will get rid of a lot of it, problem is that it has circulated the steering system.By the time the system is refilled with ISO 10 grade hyd. oil it should have thinned out.When you refill the reservoir, before you start the engine, release the bleeder screw on top of hyd. pump and wait for the oil to come out of it, tighten up and then run. If you do not do this, there is danger of the pump running dry due to an airlock. Quote
Marmite!! Posted August 25, 2008 Posted August 25, 2008 OM13 and SAE30 are both mineral oils, so no real harm done in this case, . Well that's a bit of good news then :-D Quote
Val Posted August 25, 2008 Author Posted August 25, 2008 Quite possibly, and this may explain why the hose burst. SAE30 is not equivalent to OM13 - ISO10 hydraulic fluid is. SAE30 is OMD110, which is engine oil. Read through this, it's not 100% relevant but might help... http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/lsm/dhmg/fer-oils.html Chris The Clarks stuff is an awful lot thinner than any engine oil I've seen, bugger though. How do I get it all out? The SAE30 stuff has been in there for a year and working fine up until I topped it up the other day Quote
AlienFTM Posted August 25, 2008 Posted August 25, 2008 The Clarks stuff is an awful lot thinner than any engine oil I've seen, bugger though. How do I get it all out? The SAE30 stuff has been in there for a year and working fine up until I topped it up the other day My eyes rather glazed over reading this thread as it isn't really my scene. The Clarks, is this what people have recommended as an OM13 substitute? If so, it most certainly IS an awful lot thinner than any engine oil you've ever seen, because OM13 is NOT engine oil. Among other things it is used as lightweight gun-oil where, in civvy street, I used to use All-In-One. I do remember on my gunnery course being blindfolded and having to identify OM13, OMD75 and I think probably OEP220 so that I could service Scorpion weapon systems and not use the wrong oil. Quote
sirhc Posted August 25, 2008 Posted August 25, 2008 OM13 is a very light oil, it's almost like water. SAE30 is thicker, but still thinner than a modern engine oil. Val, I think you're going to need to check every lubricant you've used and make sure it's suitable. Any which are wrong will need a thorough flushing through, or you could just park the Saracen up for a few years and wait for it all to drain out! Chris Quote
Val Posted August 25, 2008 Author Posted August 25, 2008 How do I flush it out? Can someone state all the types of fluid I will need and where for? I guess the first one is Hydraulics = ISO-10 or 12. Quote
Val Posted August 25, 2008 Author Posted August 25, 2008 Will this fluid do as a replacement? http://www.lubetechshop.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=25_40&products_id=81 Quote
Richard Farrant Posted August 25, 2008 Posted August 25, 2008 Will this fluid do as a replacement? http://www.lubetechshop.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=25_40&products_id=81 That looks OK, .........I use Morris Lubricants Liquamatic No.1, which is also ISO10. Don't forget you can use this in the fluid flywheel as well. Quote
Val Posted August 25, 2008 Author Posted August 25, 2008 How much is the Morris stuff? How do I flush the SAE30 from the system? Quote
Richard Farrant Posted August 25, 2008 Posted August 25, 2008 How much is the Morris stuff? How do I flush the SAE30 from the system? Not bought a drum lately, but would think with oil prices rising, not much different to the one you found. To drain system, drain off brake system from you damaged hose, the motor oil will not have got very far through brake system as the oil does not circulate around it only pressurised from twin control valve. The steering system circualtes. Take top of reservoir and remove filter, pump out the tank and refill, this will thin out any remainiing 30 in the system. You will have to bleed all the brakes and purge air out of steering, this is done by getting front four wheels off the ground and working steering lock to lock. Don't forget what I said about bleeding air from pump, before starting engine. You really should get hold of the workshop manuals for the Saracen, they are known as EMER, covering all levels of maintenance and repair. Quote
Val Posted August 25, 2008 Author Posted August 25, 2008 Thanks Richard, I buy the EMERs as I need them and am waiting for the latest to turn up, having dropped MV an email. Quote
Val Posted September 1, 2008 Author Posted September 1, 2008 Right, tanks and pipes are completely drained Thanks for your helps guys Quote
simonm Posted April 4, 2009 Posted April 4, 2009 Really good advice above and very relevant to my very cautious renovation of my Saracen. Can I add another question, re OM13 equivalents and the jungle of comparing ISO OM SAE etc I have got LIC 10 ( Lic 10=ISO VG 32 ) see: http://www.commaoil.com/product%20Pages/Oilsnlubes/Hoillic.htm Looking at the Richard Norton's quote: "As you can see from the chart referenced above, the spec is always at 40ºC and the cold oil is far thicker than at the reference temp. Hydraulic circuits are extremely tolerant (they have to be) and a lot of the mil fittings are commercial parts anyway intended for the middle of the road, to be found in every JCB, ISO 32" This looks about right. My dip stick is just touching the top of the hydraulic oil so I am looking at topping up. LIC10 (depending on how I interpret the above) appears to be spot on. Is anybody going to say - don't. Simon Quote
Richard Farrant Posted April 4, 2009 Posted April 4, 2009 (edited) Can I add another question, re OM13 equivalents and the jungle of comparing ISO OM SAE etc I have got LIC 10 ( Lic 10=ISO VG 32 ) see: Hi Simon, You cannot compare ISO grades against SAE. ISO is used for hydraulic type fluids, SAE is used for engine and gear oils. OM13 is equivalent to ISO10. Comma LIC10 is an ISO grade of 32 which is the common hydraulic grade for plant equipment, etc. The higher the number the thicker the viscosity. The difference in grades is done for a reason, otherwise the military would have standardised with the 32 grade, which was also widely used in their plant. Best to keep with the specified grade, then if any problems occur, you know they are not related to the incorrect fluid. Edited April 4, 2009 by Richard Farrant Quote
simonm Posted April 4, 2009 Posted April 4, 2009 Thanks Richard Shows what my local garage knows, I asked if they had any ISO10 oil and I left with LC10 - clearly not ISO10. It'll stay in its carton. I must admit it did look a lot more viscous than I was expecting! I'm in Lenham (I think you're in Ashford?) is there anywhere local that you would recommend for ISO10? regards Simon Quote
Richard Farrant Posted April 4, 2009 Posted April 4, 2009 I'm in Lenham (I think you're in Ashford?) is there anywhere local that you would recommend for ISO10? Simon, Sending you a PM Quote
Marmite!! Posted April 4, 2009 Posted April 4, 2009 I got my ISO 10 from Rye oils http://www.rye-oil.ltd.uk/ Quote
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.