fv1609 Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 I'm hopping made to find that I forgot to use the battery isolator switch on the Hornet & I have two dead batteries. So they have been discharging since May, both are now duff, even individually they won't accept a charge.:argh::argh: The sickening thing is that these are not old batteries, I bought them at the start of last season. Is there anything that can sensibly be done to revive them or are the changes irreversible? Each cell unit has its own filler plug & the levels are well over the plates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougiebarder Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 I seem to remember looking at some sort of tablets that were supposed to help. I think you dropped a couple in each cell, and they came back to life. Also http://www.users.bigpond.com/solarbbq/batteriesrejuvenating.htm and http://www.reuk.co.uk/Battery-Desulfation.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fv1609 Posted August 14, 2008 Author Share Posted August 14, 2008 Yes some interesting stuff there. Once I've read it a bit more I might make a desuphator. I think I've got some 555 somewhere. But I hate sourcing inductances, I object to buying them. I don't mind winding my own if the wire gauge, turns etc are specified. But its all time fiddling around doing something that might only be a half measure. I just feel sour that this year I have forked out for 24v batteries for two vehicles & I thought I had taken taken care of this vehicle's batteries last year. I suspect the IR headlights switch got knocked on accidentally as it is in a vulnerable place & then I failed to turn the isolator switch off. I need a little alka-seltzer type tablet to drop in each cell & magically revive them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john fox Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 I need a little alka-seltzer type tablet to drop in each cell & magically revive them! Halfrauds sell those tablets - called "Batt Aid" last time I bought them - http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_10001_catalogId_10151_productId_216725_langId_-1_categoryId_58760 complete waste of money in my experience :argh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.O.S. Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 There's a clever old chap in Norfolk who might bring them back to life for little or nothing, but no guarantees. But I expect you're a fair way from there? PM me if you can get them somewhere close, I might be able to help, and if you decide to replace with Optima batteries he might collect them when he drops your new ones off...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougiebarder Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 Halfrauds sell those tablets - called "Batt Aid" last time I bought them - http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_10001_catalogId_10151_productId_216725_langId_-1_categoryId_58760 complete waste of money in my experience :argh: That's the one, I must admit, I did have more than a few doubts about their effectiveness! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 I need a little alka-seltzer type tablet to drop in each cell & magically revive them! Clive, Funny you should say that. I once heard a guy on an Australian radio station, he had a regular spot, something like Hints and tips from a Bush Mechanic. This time he was saying how to bring a dead battery back to life, he used a tablet that any household would keep, but I cannot recollect if it was Aspirin or Alka Selzer, maybe the latter as that would fizz up and perhaps desulphate the plates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
84KB11 Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 Clive, Just a thought, your plates are coated with lead sulphate, thus preventing the normal reaction between the plates and the Sulphuric Acid in the battery. If you were to drain the battery, flush and refill with a dilute acid which would produce a soluble lead salt, then a quick soak followed by flushing and refilling with fresh 5 molar Sulphuric Acid may do the trick? I would guess that you would need to use a more reactive acid to effect the change in the salt, but both lead chloride (from hydrochloric acid) and lead acetate (from ethanoic acid - aka vinegar) are soluble. I am not sure if this would work, and this is by no means a recomendation without consulting someone with a good knowledge o battery chemistry, but may be worth investigating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fv1609 Posted August 14, 2008 Author Share Posted August 14, 2008 Hmm the Halfords tablets were a bit thin on information. A bit like these things sold in health food shops, take these they are 'good for you', but no real explanation why & how. Curiously Halfords recommend the tablets for older vehicles. Well I have old vehicles but with pretty new batteries. Amps going in & coming out aren't concerned whether they flow around new wires or old wires! Richard I'm sure there must be household products that could do the job. In the past in times of desperation (don't try this at home boys & girls) I have switched the battery charger to START for 15 seconds or so & that has then encouraged a grudging charge current to be drawn. I get nervous doing that in case it all goes bang & there is acid all over the place. I confess to trying that today but to no avail. But I have got an extra year out of batteries doing that if they won't accept a charge initially. So what could I put in their to revive them? Must be something that someone has discovered by chance. Like if you want some paintwork to fade in a particular place, cover it with the inside of a banana skin for a day. Found that out by mistake! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fv1609 Posted August 14, 2008 Author Share Posted August 14, 2008 I am not sure if this would work, That's the problem KB. The other problem is the refilling with acid. A few years ago I bought 'dry charged' (whatever that means) MOD batteries of the type that go in Ferret, Pig etc. Lots of dealers were selling them you may know of one. Trouble is it proved very difficult getting the acid & lots of head shaking that 'you didn't buy the batteries from us' routine. So the batteries worked out no cheaper in the end than buying new ones off the shelf unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 Richard I'm sure there must be household products that could do the job. In the past in times of desperation (don't try this at home boys & girls) I have switched the battery charger to START for 15 seconds or so & that has then encouraged a grudging charge current to be drawn. Clive, Just a thought, are you charging these batteries as a pair, ie 24v, or singly? Might only be one battery that is causing the problem. Another thing that I have often come across, go to charge a discharged battery and no charge will register on the charger's ammeter. Try the starter switch and the load will sometimes stir something in the plates and it will then begrudgingly start to charge, getting better all the time. As yours are probably as flat as a witches t*t, this might not work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fv1609 Posted August 14, 2008 Author Share Posted August 14, 2008 Richard, yes whenever I do a mains charge I do it individually to each battery. It is surprising that even identical batteries fitted at the same time can behave differently & of course when in use charging them at 24 volts. The behaviour of the system is dragged to the level of the poorer battery, which is what you were getting at. I found that on the Wolf earlier in the year one battery failed but the other would charge fine & give a good reading with a discharge voltmeter. And no I was not tapping off 12v to run the CD player, I have a 24v one. But I replaced both as a pair. Actually that good battery is now in the Hornet together with one I had earmarked for the Shorland so it is at least running. Not ideal but as long I can get it running I can do servicing & Tapley brake efficiency tests prior to GDSF, which is what started this all off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Grosvenor Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 How long have the batteries been on charge? I remember reading somewhere that modern "Maintenance Free" batteries if flat, need to be charged at around 15vts for at least 3 days to bring them back up. Just a thought Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 Invest in decent charger such as Actimate, they desulpte the batterys by clever electronics and can be left on the battery for long periods as the unit monitors the battery level and adjusts charge acordingly cost about £40, cheaper than batterys at the moment. I'm investing in a 6 volt one for Katy the WC54 as she sits in Jersey fior long periods. Also a solar Trickle charger is a good investment at £20 or so. I'd start with each battery individually, then when charged parralel them with a trickle charger. It is added hasel but batteries are becoming a prized commodity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fv1609 Posted August 14, 2008 Author Share Posted August 14, 2008 (edited) Richard, it was only on charge for 10 mins. No volts & no inclination to draw any charge whatsoever having been discharging since May. I assumed I had cooked my goose. So if you think that it might be inclined to start to draw something just left for a few days I've got nothing to lose by leaving it on. Tony I wasn't aware that there were chargers with clever devices that could do that. I was not impressed with an 'intelligent' (?) charger I used on my wife's Hilux Surf. These vehicles seem to drain 75ma continuously & the intelligent charger seemed incapable of coping with that unless the battery was disconnected. Going off topic now, but the Surf forum is full of people who have this problem & blame it on the battery as a 'new battery cures the problem'. But after about a year not getting fully charged on short runs, come winter time that fails & a new battery is needed again. I can't understand these owners who just accept. Not like us lot here who want to get things properly sorted out in our vehicles! Edited August 14, 2008 by fv1620 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 The one's I'm thinking off, I'll get details of Colin my parts bloke tommorow, have an excellent history. Several people I know have used them and recommend them. I know what you mean about 'Snake Oil' claims, that's why I always try and find someone who has used the gadgets for a while, let them make the expensive mistakes. :cool2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Degsy Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 Hi Clive, I have been following this thread with interest as Back in the sixties I worked for Lucas CAV and spent a fair bit of time running all sorts of tests on batteries. We did find that heavily sulphated batteries could some times be brought back to life by using a slow charge over a long period which did seem to break the sulphation,however the performance of the batteries was reduced and we concluded that it was not really worth the trouble as they usually failed completely within a short period. I vaguely remember we did try a couple of products which claimed to revive sulphated batteries but without any success. This was all a long time ago so it is possible that a modern product may do what it says on the box but I am rather sceptical and still think that your main hope is the long slow charge. If you do decide to try this don't give up too quickly, you may find that it could be several days before the batterys begin to take any sort of a charge but if nothing has happened after 4 or at the latest 5 days then it's time to pay a visit to the scrap man, at least the price is good at the moment.:-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 Here you go Clive.... http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/12V-High-Power-Desulphator-Desulfator-Electronics-Kit_W0QQitemZ200245980352QQihZ010QQcategoryZ48618QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 Have used Bat Aid pills from time to time, found they gave me an extra month or two before the battery pegged out completly. Automotive battery technology dosen't seem to have developed much. A lot of the Million amp stereo boys use the deep discharge gel type batterys, but they are horrendously expensive. Last time I checked they were about 4 times the equivalent lead acid equivalent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrisg Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 Dont know if this will be of any help I've got some 4 volt lead acid caving lamps which get total abused and forgotten and when charging through the lamp unit i leave the bulb on to draw some current from the charger then discharge and recharge two or three times Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 There was 'battery conditioner unit' that did discahrge the battery under controlled conditions then re charged etc. Haven't seen one for years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Grosvenor Posted August 15, 2008 Share Posted August 15, 2008 There was 'battery conditioner unit' that did discahrge the battery under controlled conditions then re charged etc. Haven't seen one for years. I use them on most of my vehicle's, certainly over winter when they're not used much. They charge the battery, then let it go down a little, then charge it again. Basically the same as if the vehicle was in regular use. I have noticed though if a battery is weak it will either build it back up again or finish it off completely. They're easy enough to get, just have a look on Ebay, I sold quite a few there a couple of years ago Regards Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fv1609 Posted August 21, 2008 Author Share Posted August 21, 2008 Following the advice of Richard G & Degsy. I have left one battery on charge, it would draw no current at all. But on the third day it was drawing about 0.1 amps. I had hoped that this would have gradually increased as the days went by but not so. I checked it today (Day 6) & no current was being drawn at all, as I have now found it to be fully charged! Out of curiosity I put a discharge voltmeter on & found that it gave full output for 15 seconds & would have continued but the load resistor was getting rather hot. So what a dramatic recovery. Time will tell if it will perform properly but as it is only a year old it stands as good a chance as any. Needless to say the other battery is now on long term charge, although like the other one it appears to be drawing no current at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.O.S. Posted August 21, 2008 Share Posted August 21, 2008 Good old electrons, they came through for you in the end! Clive, can you advise what type of charger you were using - automatic or adjustable output? I'm assming that if using a big old variable rectifier (Davenset type) then it should be set as low as possible? Someone I know uses a really cheap auto set which chucks out no more than 1 1/2 amps - found it in a bin! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted August 21, 2008 Share Posted August 21, 2008 Sounds almost Biblical 'And on the third day....':-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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