Joris Posted August 11, 2008 Share Posted August 11, 2008 This morning I made these for the Screaming Ducks website, some random but very moving lines on British Wargraves in the Netherlands: More on this subject can be found on our website: http://www.screamingducks.com/Page04.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted August 11, 2008 Share Posted August 11, 2008 Stirring in the back of the mind, families could have a text put on the stone at seven pence a letter. Unfortunatley for many it was to expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyFowler Posted August 11, 2008 Share Posted August 11, 2008 Are the children shown these type of photos and the history of previous generations sacrifices for us as part of their education at schools today as I don't remember being informed of recent history when I was at school twenty odd years ago ! Luckily my parents got me interested in this powerfull and emotional subject which never ceases to move me ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joris Posted August 11, 2008 Author Share Posted August 11, 2008 Here it depends on your location too, if you live in say Amsterdam you will probably get more educated on the prosecution of the Jews. If you live in Rotterdam the bombing of the city on may 14th will be the thing teached at school. In Arnhem / Oosterbeek the battle for Arnhem / Market Garden is taught at every school and it will be remembered as the lost battle with the emphasis on the soliders killed and the repercussions for the local population. Where I live now, Veghel, the same subject is taught too but now it's all about the liberation and not so much remembrance. And here in Eindhoven where I work the same subject is taught with the liberation in mind but then the subsequent bombing of Eindhoven by the germans. As you can see it's very diverse, there is no point asking a kid from Amsterdam about the bombing of Eindhoven, they simply won't know. They were liberated on the 5th of may 1945 and not September 18th when Eindhoven was liberated. I can go on and on for hours... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snapper Posted August 11, 2008 Share Posted August 11, 2008 Are the children shown these type of photos and the history of previous generations sacrifices for us as part of their education at schools today as I don't remember being informed of recent history when I was at school twenty odd years ago ! Luckily my parents got me interested in this powerfull and emotional subject which never ceases to move me ! They do WW1 and WW2 in history and some go on field trips to France and Flanders. The usual effect is good, but there will always be some from the shallow end who are less impressed. I've taken my kids to Normandy twice, the Somme twice and for lots of trips round Flanders and beyond. They get bored with too many cemeteries, but enjoy walks and getting out and about. I'm happy to resort to thoroughly trite cheese in describing cemeteries as being like books, with every grave a page. An awful use of the english language, but not far off correct in real terms. My apologies. As a point of interest, New Zealand graves do not have inscriptions because the NZ government objected to the cost payable by families, so ordered that it would be devisive to allow those who could pay to benefit over those who could not. MB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 Stirring in the back of the mind, families could have a text put on the stone at seven pence a letter. Unfortunatley for many it was to expensive. I heard this too when we were in Normandy Bridie and I 'tagged' on to a tour group and we listened to the guide saying that the British government would charge the families a shilling to have them engraved. Absolutely bloody appalling - good to see that the King was pleased that they died for him and his country.... - my name is Ben Elton, goodnight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mazungumagic Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 I was on Ambon (one of the eastern Indonesian islands) in 1992, to commemorate the 50th anniversary of its capture by the Japanese (and subsequent massacre of 200 Australian soldiers at Laha airport). The site of the POW Camp where interned Australians from the 2/21st Battalion spent a brutal four years (so much so that only 25% returned home), is now a Commonwealth War Grave. The dead buried here are from a wide area of the South West Pacific and not just Ambon. On walking over the area, I came across an inscription which has stayed with me for over a decade. Some NOK had inscribed on a gravestone the words: "Into the mosaic of victory, I have given my most precious possession" I've forgotten the name of the soldier who is buried there, but not those words. Jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.O.S. Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 Are the children shown these type of photos and the history of previous generations sacrifices for us as part of their education at schools today as I don't remember being informed of recent history when I was at school twenty odd years ago ! Luckily my parents got me interested in this powerfull and emotional subject which never ceases to move me ! Well said Andy, and I have to say it was HMVF which brought this subject to my attention - well done HMVF!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 Don't go there!! Our local college with which I have had quite a lot to do, have a two year course on modern History, starting with the Versaillieas treaty, the effect on modern times... Etc etc. I started talking to the head of department just generally, saying I'd be interested in doing the course. After about five minutes he stopped me and said' Forget it, you'd embarras the lecturer'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snapper Posted August 13, 2008 Share Posted August 13, 2008 (edited) Very interesting. Education is a bit of a lottery. I'd love to be involved in education, perhaps when Rupert has finished with me (Murdoch not Bodge) in the new year I'll find something to do. Maybe my two O levels, four CSEs and an NVQ won't mean much. Actually Jack, it was not the King's fault that people had to pay. It all stems from the setting up of the Imperial War Graves Commission and how the funding of it would be generated. HMG expected to put in the largest amount and did so. They agreed shared costs with the Dominions and India and covered the costs of all the others. Each Great War Grave from that time cost HMG £5 in old money at a time when the country was broke - not an inconsiderable sum. Every soldier was guaranteed a grave with his name on, if applicable. The inscriptions were brought in precisely to stop the proliferation of private memorials which could only be afforded by the rich. It was all part of the drive to keep the dead in theatre and have no repatriations, which would, again, have only been affordable by a very few. The whole aim was to have parity in death, no class system - (although this did not stop acceptable for the times burials separated by rank in some cemeteries such as at Etaples). In practice a form of means testing of NOK was carried out by the IWGC on an ad hoc basis outside of officialdom and a great many inscriptions were made without charge. Perhaps the most interesting point, which you will not get an official answer to is that in the case of the Unknowns, each unidentified grace was recorded with a map reference. To this day the CWGC ( as is) do not want a proliferation of enquiries from people who have traced battalion records and think they can pinpoint Uncle Albert. All very interesting. This is how they "found" John Kipling. The floodgates might open. I thoroughly recommend the CWGC's book "The Unending Vigil" to all interested parties. See their website. MB Edited August 13, 2008 by Snapper typos and more waffle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuno Posted August 13, 2008 Share Posted August 13, 2008 Always very impressive to see how young these people were. Was asked once by a German veteran, if I could take a photo of the name of his best mate from scool days until dead in the desert war from the memorial at Tobruk. He sent me then as well a photo - the last of the colleague alive and the main dates of his life. I returned with the question, if he is sure about the birth-date. It was correct; he was not even 18 years of age when he died. And this was already in 1941! The German memorial at Tobruk is quite different to the Commonwealth cemeteries. No individual stones but only the pure names laid in mosaic. No rank nothing. The names in alphabetical order... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joris Posted August 14, 2008 Author Share Posted August 14, 2008 Can you share a picture of this memorial with us? It's probably one I will never see in real life, sadly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.O.S. Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 No individual stones but only the pure names laid in mosaic. No rank nothing. The names in alphabetical order... Yes, I'd like to see this too if possible please, Kuno. Sometimes the simplest ones are the best, the idea of no rank makes sense - they were all in it together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuno Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 Don't have my own pics at hand at the moment - so I use a colleagues ones. The German memorial is built like a traditional fortress. There is one small entrance and the names of the fallen soldiers are all in mosaics along the inner walls. Hope these pics can give an impression. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuno Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 ...and some pics of the same colleague showing the Commonwealth Cemetery at TOBRUK: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joris Posted August 14, 2008 Author Share Posted August 14, 2008 Wow that's a very impressive memorial! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snapper Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 First time I've seen a Sudan Defence Force head stone. I'm not a "collector" per se, but I always try and get snaps of the varying badges on headstones on my travels and have seen a few rarities. The pix are very nice. One day I'd like to visit the desert locations, but I haven't done half of the Somme and Flanders yet and don't even start me on Market Garden or the Ardennes. MB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.O.S. Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 Thanks Kuno! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 Impressive! Thanks Kuno for opening my eyes to other peoples memorials. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 Wonderful post and thanks for letting us in to another nations war memorial and perhaps a better understanding of the bigger picture. We are all human beings, we are all brothers. Jack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuno Posted August 15, 2008 Share Posted August 15, 2008 Next to TOBRUK and EL ALAMEIN, there is a third very impressive German Cemetery: BORDJ CEDRIA in Tunisia. In 1971, all dead soldiers spread over many small cemeteries have been collected and brought to this installation. The small boxes (coffins?) are placed behind the stone plates. Whilst the Tunisian campaign is not that known as what had happened in Libya and Egypt you may note that only during the six months in Tunisia another 8'500 German soldiers lost their life. This against about 11'000 killed in the previous two years!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuno Posted August 15, 2008 Share Posted August 15, 2008 ...if you allow me to continue on the Axis side: The German memorial of El Alamein: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuno Posted August 15, 2008 Share Posted August 15, 2008 ...and again at El Alamein: The Italian memorial... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuno Posted August 15, 2008 Share Posted August 15, 2008 ...now back to Libya and the Commonwealth Cemetery at Knightsbridge / Acroma: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joris Posted August 15, 2008 Author Share Posted August 15, 2008 Wow impressive! Can anybody explain the skull on the grave? I've never seen that before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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