Recovery and Towing

[ex-recymech]

leave recovery to the Recy mech, its no good trying to be a Wannabe,

when connecting up tackle etc remember the Recy mech rule, "Never put you Finger where you wouldnt put your D1ck

[AndyFowler]

Wise words mate ! :-D

[antarmike]

I get bored easily, I hardly ever get to the bottom of any page, I prefer looking at the Pictures to reading the Blurb...........

[rbrtcrowther]

Hi there.:wave:

 

Sorry to go off topic but i often read stories about towing large vehicles back to base and helping a mate who broke down and (the new toy was hooked up on a straight bar and towed home for restoration)ect. and have a few questions.:readbook:

 

1)Is it a legal requirement for the towed vehicle to have brakes air lines hooked up ect (even if there is someone steering it) OR suspended.

 

2)If you only have a rigid licence, when you are towing (straight bar or suspended) you are articulated So in theory don't have the required licence?:police:

 

3)People tell me they don't need a hgv to drive an explorer is this a grey area and how grey an area is it when your trucks gone through a house?:whistle:

 

 

Hope you can shed light

 

Rob

[julezee001]

This has been covered in various posts before, and there are probably as many different answers as there are members on HMVF.

 

 

 

The answer to the last is that any truck manufactured before 1960, can be driven on a car licence, and can tow an unladen trailer, as long as they are not used commercially. How this rule is affected by the change driving licence rules (1997?)for towing trailers behind cars, I confess to not knowing!

 

Jules

[Adrian Barrell]

This has been covered in various posts before, and there are probably as many different answers as there are members on HMVF.

 

 

 

The answer to the last is that any truck manufactured before 1960, can be driven on a car licence, and can tow an unladen trailer, as long as they are not used commercially. How this rule is affected by the change driving licence rules (1997?)for towing trailers behind cars, I confess to not knowing!

 

Jules

 

Again, not quite true. A goods vehicle, that is a vehicle constructed or adapted for the carriage of goods, over 3500 kg GVM, used unladen or drawing an unladen trailer, pre 1960 is exempt from plating and testing and can be driven on a normal car licence provided it is an older licence, pre 1991 I think.

 

It's got nothing to do with if it's being used commercially but whether it is laden or not. Commercial use requires an operators licence and HGV taxation.

 

An Explorer is not a goods vehicle.

[gritineye]

how grey an area is it when your trucks gone through a house?:whistle:Rob

 

No such thing as a gray area Rob! not in the eyes of Plod, only in the view of those with their head in the sand.

 

Ring your historic vehicle insurance company first and tell them what type of license you have and exactly what you intend to do, if they say you are covered get it in writing.

 

Then let someone else tow it just to be safe :nono:

 

It won't be a gray area after the accident, Plod and insurance companies will know!

[Grumpy]

 

1)Is it a legal requirement for the towed vehicle to have brakes air lines hooked up ect (even if there is someone steering it) OR suspended.

 

Rob

 

No, not unless an approved brake connection point is available i.e.:

(a) Approved by the manufacturer of the vehicle;

(b) Fitted to the vehicle in the course of its construction or adaptation; and

© Specially designed for use in the course of recovering disabled vehicles or vehicle-combinations in order to provide a means by which the braking system of the disabled vehicle of vehicle combination and can be safely and effectively controlled from the road recovery vehicle.

 

2)If you only have a rigid licence, when you are towing (straight bar or suspended) you are articulated So in theory don't have the required licence?:police:

Rob

Yes - if the vehicle you are towing is over 750kg

3)People tell me they don't need a hgv to drive an explorer is this a grey area and how grey an area is it when your trucks gone through a house?:whistle:

Rob

Exact wording from the DVLA

“A goods vehicle manufactured before 1 January 1960, used unladen and not drawing a laden trailer; Drivers must be aged 21 and have held a category B licence for at least 2 years.”

Find the full document here:

http://www.dvla.gov.uk/media/pdf/leaflets/inf52.pdf

Weight has nothing to do with it or when you passed your test.

However remember, where a recovery of a disabled vehicle or vehicle-combination is effected by using a drawbar or lift and-tow method, the road recovery vehicle must not carry or tow the disabled vehicle or vehicle combination any further than is reasonably necessary in order to clear any road obstructed by it and to facilitate the use of roads by other persons. “Reasonably necessary” usually means nearest point of repairs or to load onto transport. Most recovery firms tend to bend this rule from time to time.:nono:

Other useful documents:

http://www.dvla.gov.uk/media/pdf/leaflets/inf34.pdf - Historic Tax Explained

http://www.dvla.gov.uk/media/pdf/forms/v112g.pdf Goods vehicle MOT exemption form – if your vehicle is on the list on page two you can use this form instead of an MOT cert when you tax your vehicle.

Right click and save as

[daz76]

Thanks Grumpy. Useful post. :tup::

[rbrtcrowther]

Cheers Grumpy. Thats sorted out that I think. I have a HGV rigid licence to drive the Cranes at work so not worried about the Scammell. Is a twenty od foot Showmans trailer a loaded trailer? And if a scammell explorer is pulling amother dead explorer or lorry with front coupling heads for the air brakes they must be connected by law? Just need to be clear once and for all.

I promise never to ask anoying questions again:blush:

 

Many thanks Rob

[gritineye]

A living van is considered to be an unladen trailer as long as it contains only personal effects, and nothing else, not annoying at all we all need to get this stuff right:)

[julezee001]

“A goods vehicle manufactured before 1 January 1960, used unladen and not drawing a laden trailer; Drivers must be aged 21 and have held a category B licence for at least 2 years.”

 

This presumably implies that someone who gained their car licence after 1997 cannot drive with a trailer over 750kg without passing a further test, and yet can take out a pre 1960 HGV with a somewhat larger trailer? I guess that is why the DVLA has the get out clause covering info provided!

 

On the subject of recovery, would a C + E restricted licence (rigid + drawbar trailer)cover someone for towing a broken down vehicle.

 

Jules

[rbrtcrowther]

I suppose it only takes one disaster and it could not only be big trouble personaly but change things for the whole vintage scene. you could imagine the headlines (Uninsured vintage deathtrap flattens orphanage):???

 

Rob.

[rbrtcrowther]

So if someone is driving a truck on a car licence and offers to tow his mate home or go and pick up his next restoration project as soon as he hooks up his lorry is loaded. So he can't drive on a car licence.

 

So if you own a wreaker you can't tow another vehicle cos you have loaded the truck therfore can't drive on car licence. You can't drive with a rigid licence cos it is articulated now so you need a full HGV......Unless it's a showmans living van which you can tow on a car licence.:banghead: I think i'll go get a full HGV its far more simple.:sweat:

[N.O.S.]

So if you own a wrecker you can't tow another vehicle cos you have loaded the truck therfore can't drive on car licence. You can't drive with a rigid licence cos it is articulated now so you need a full HGV......Unless it's a showmans living van which you can tow on a car licence.:banghead: I think i'll go get a full HGV its far more simple.:sweat:

 

Rob, you get shot at from three directions:

 

1) Appropriate driving licence category

 

2) Appropriate Road Fund Licence

 

3) Appropriate Insurance cover

 

Even with the correct insurance cover, if you don't get 1 and 2 right, the insurance may be invalidated.

 

I was under the impression that historic road tax does not allow you to carry a load, be it your own or for hire and reward. If you tax a hgv as private, you can carry a load subject to full HGV mot compliance. I guess the same would apply to a historic vehicle too, but you might need a different road fund licence?

 

I'm not aware that your question of whether you can tow or recover a historic vehicle with another has ever been satisfactorily answered on the forum. It would be very useful to know.

[gritineye]

I suppose it only takes one disaster and it could not only be big trouble personaly but change things for the whole vintage scene. you could imagine the headlines (Uninsured vintage deathtrap flattens orphanage):???

 

Rob.

 

Somewhere on the Explorer thread is a pic of Forceful suspend towing a Pioneer hulk along country roads, I was not driving, the owner of the Pioneer was, he has a full HGV and a business insurance to cover him in such activities. I would have loved to have done it just for the experience, but common sense prevailed, I just went along for the ride.

Edited January 14, 2009 by gritineye

[T corbin]

When i registered the FORD GTB BOMB SERVICE .I was told by the man from the DLVA that if i where to tow the M5 BOMB TRAILER With bombs on it .Only if the bombs where dummy an where bolted to the trailer as to be a display trailer and not loaded .it also has electric breaks that work of a leaver on the dash T CORBIN

[N.O.S.]

So the bombs effectively form part of the trailer. Thanks Tony, that's useful info. :tup::

[Guest catweazle (Banned Member)]

Is this your one?Duxford 2005 didnt it win a prize.

OFF TOPIC.:pfrt:

[N.O.S.]

Thanks for taking us off topic, CW. While we're there, Tony - I'm trying to get hold of 2 x CO2 extinguishers like the one on your GTB for the tanker. The older British ones I've looked at are not a very good size match. Any ideas most welcome!

[Grumpy]

Even with the correct insurance cover, if you don't get 1 and 2 right, the insurance may be invalidated.

 

If you have taken out and paid for insurance, the insures have to honour third party claims even if you have lied through your teeth about which licence you have, but only third party claims. If the insurance company is being awkward about a claim you just report it to the Motor Insurers' Bureau MIB who has government backing to sort the claim.

 

 

I was under the impression that historic road tax does not allow you to carry a load, be it your own or for hire and reward. If you tax a hgv as private, you can carry a load subject to full HGV mot compliance. I guess the same would apply to a historic vehicle too, but you might need a different road fund licence?

 

Historic Road Tax covers the following vehicles manufactured before 01/01/1973

a) Private/Light Goods – including buses used for voluntary, community or other non-profit making purposes i.e. a vehicle not required to have a Public Service Vehicle Licence.

b) Motorcycles and Tricycles.

c) Private HGV – but excluding vehicles designed for, or adapted for use for, the conveyance of goods or burden and put to a commercial use on a public road e.g. unladen HGV’s and HGV’s used for driver training/testing purposes.

d) Special Vehicles – mobile cranes/pumps, road rollers, works trucks and digging machines (excluding showmen’s goods/showmen’s haulage vehicles).

e) Haulage Vehicles – not used for haulage purposes.

f) Special Concessionary – agricultural machines, mowing machines, snowploughs, gritting vehicles, electric vehicles and steam vehicles.

 

You can carry a load so long as it is not for commercial use or you are driving a pre 1960 vehiecle over 3500kg on a B (car) licence.

 

I'm not aware that your question of whether you can tow or recover a historic vehicle with another has ever been satisfactorily answered on the forum. It would be very useful to know.

 

Yes you can tow a Historic taxed vehicle with another so long as the towing vehicle has a current MOT, unless it was manufactured before 01/01/1960 and the towed vehicle is unladen. Even if you have a recovery vehicle manufactured before 01/01/1973 you can only claim MOT exemption for recovery vehicles if it is taxed as such, if you want to tax it as Historic you have to MOT it.

 

[Richard Farrant]

So the bombs effectively form part of the trailer. Thanks Tony, that's useful info. :tup::

 

Like the Pioneer tank transporter at Beltring many moons ago, carrying a BMP1 tracked APC. I seem to recollect the tracks were welded to the trailer (chained down as well of course). Does anyone else remember this?

 

He could have picked a more authentic load though :-(

[Stormin]

An Explorer is not a goods vehicle.

 

If not a goods vehicle what classification would such a vehicle fall into?

Certainly not a mobile crane looking at the very tight wording for their definition. I belive the definition of a mobile crane has been tightened up to reduce the amount of vehicles running around on red diesel.

 

I feel sure that an explorer has enough cargo capacity outside of the tool boxes to count as a goods vehicle.

[N.O.S.]

Cheers Grumpy. So if you have a post 1960 vehicle (which therefore be subject to MOT) you can tow, but not if it is pre 1960 and thus not MOT'd.........

 

I tried to tax a pre 1960 truck as special types for work purposes, but was told by local DVLA office that it could be historic class. I wasn't convinced I had been given the right advice but didn't argue with them at the time!!

[Grumpy]

Like the Pioneer tank transporter at Beltring many moons ago, carrying a BMP1 tracked APC. I seem to recollect the tracks were welded to the trailer (chained down as well of course). Does anyone else remember this?

 

He could have picked a more authentic load though :-(

 

Yep remember the one, wasnt it done to class it as a Mobile Project Vehicle and driven on a car licence?