antarmike Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Okay fellas how about a plan for this situation. The Container has already fallen off and hit the road below. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Another one to think about At some stage the tipping gear has to be cut, but I wouldn't like to say what will happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.O.S. Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Another one to think about At some stage the tipping gear has to be cut, but I wouldn't like to say what will happen. I would put a strop around the chassis rear and pull gently from the right. I don't think the tipping gear will need cutting...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 I would put a strop around the chassis rear and pull gently from the right. I don't think the tipping gear will need cutting...... presumably wearing ear defenders?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamond-t-steve Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 (edited) Another one to think about At some stage the tipping gear has to be cut, but I wouldn't like to say what will happen. If it was me I would concider the cutting of anything in that position too dangerous. Looking at the picture what I would do is position a winch out of the picture to the left and attatch the cable to the trucks chassis via a chain wrapped around the rearmost cross member. I would then pull the rear of the truck towards the left. As the body is wedged against the bridge. as you pull the chassis the cab end should come away from the bridge and as long as the ram does not break it should stop the front of the truck dropping to the ground in an uncontroled manor as the rear of the chassis moves left the front should come down hanging on the ram. Once the truck is on it's wheels I would then move the winch cable to the rear of the body and chain the bottom rear of the body to the rear of the truck so as you winch to the left the ram (as long as the it has not leaked and is still full of oil) should hold the body front elevated as it comes away from the bridge. Once the front is clear of the bridge I would stop winching and (depending on the system fitted) l would opperate the rams lowering mechanism to lower the front of the body as far as it will close then block the body and remove the ram. Once the ram is removed I would Via jacks/whatever is available remove the props and lower the body back down onto the truck chassis, chain it down, put the ram in the body and tow away....... Job done with no further damage and in a boring but controled way :D:D OOPs.....forgot to say that I would make sure that there was no air in the trucks brakes so the springbrakes are hard on to stop the truck rolling once the rear wheels are on the ground. Edited January 19, 2011 by diamond-t-steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosrec Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 If it was me I would concider the cutting of anything in that position too dangerous. Looking at the picture what I would do is position a winch out of the picture to the left and attatch the cable to the trucks chassis via a chain wrapped around the rearmost cross member. I would then pull the rear of the truck towards the left. As the body is wedged against the bridge. as you pull the chassis the cab end should come away from the bridge and as long as the ram does not break it should stop the front of the truck dropping to the ground in an uncontroled manor as the rear of the chassis moves left the front should come down hanging on the ram. Once the truck is on it's wheels I would then move the winch cable to the rear of the body and chain the bottom rear of the body to the rear of the truck so as you winch to the left the ram (as long as the it has not leaked and is still full of oil) should hold the body front elevated as it comes away from the bridge. Once the front is clear of the bridge I would stop winching and (depending on the system fitted) l would opperate the rams lowering mechanism to lower the front of the body as far as it will close then block the body and remove the ram. Once the ram is removed I would Via jacks/whatever is available remove the props and lower the body back down onto the truck chassis, chain it down, put the ram in the body and tow away....... Job done with no further damage and in a boring but controled way :D:D OOPs.....forgot to say that I would make sure that there was no air in the trucks brakes so the springbrakes are hard on to stop the truck rolling once the rear wheels are on the ground. pretty much agree but this job and the rollover before it would only go ahead or be done under instruction from the person in charge of the bridge. Or at least it will if Japan is the same as this country. Bridge recovery work here is a nightmare when the bridge engineers get involved. Scotch blocks and rear spades are a no no when working on bridges Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamond-t-steve Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 (edited) pretty much agree but this job and the rollover before it would only go ahead or be done under instruction from the person in charge of the bridge. Or at least it will if Japan is the same as this country. Bridge recovery work here is a nightmare when the bridge engineers get involved. Scotch blocks and rear spades are a no no when working on bridges When winching with the winch vehicle positioned on hard ground ie tarmac or concrete road surfaces the use of rearspades or scotch blocks was concidered by me to not be as effective an anchor as the resistance of the winch vehicles weight and the friction of the much larger surface area of the tyres in contact with the road than there is with the tips of the spade on hard surface. I would also if there was any doubt at all, place another vehicle in front of the winch vehicle and connect the 2 together to add aditional resistance to the winch vehicle being pulled towards the subject. I have winced many times on seeing a recovery truck that is about to winch from hard standing with its rear wheels in the air and the ground anchor spades fully extended with around a dozen very small points of contact ontop of the road surface. Ground anchor spades are designed to be used on soft ground were they can dig in and be effective. Edited January 19, 2011 by diamond-t-steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosrec Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Still trying to get vehicle back up slope, and on to narrow road. As you can see its still upright but will take very little to upset it. I would seriously be looking for something to the left of the road to held stabilise it a tractor a l/r or even a tirfor to a tree It will take very little to hold it. Any way on this occasion there is nothing but will have a go anyway. The vehicle we have to use for the recovery is a Crusader. I have put the crusader in the drawing and have drawn a line in blue representing the winch rope going to the front Nato hitch. You can see from this line it’s fairly high. The crusader is a fantastic piece of kit but even in its lowest position the winch still exits from the rear of the truck at about 51/2 ft from floor level. Most jobs this makes no difference but on this occasion if you look it is pulling at a steeper angle than that line I drew AB and this could be all that’s needed to upset the vehicle. To combat this I would put a snatch block in the rigging as shown in red. The snatch block isn’t there to increase power but to change direction of pull. As its pulling as shown the vehicle will now be fairly stable and you will be in with a good chance of recovering it trouble free at least enough to get lower wheel to near the top of bank. Now you may be wondering what the end of winch rope fastened to. I would wrap a chain round the box section of the leg furthest from the casualty and down and out underneath the spade before lowering the leg to the floor then fasten winch to this [ATTACH=CONFIG]40426[/ATTACH] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulob1 Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 not totally following you here, is the scammel there to just stop it falling over or to recover it, how does it move it onto the single track road as shown if it is alongside...dont understand...why would you not use the scammel to pull the truck forwards ensuring that the truck is secured sideways so that it will not fall over...must be missing something here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antar Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 not totally following you here, is the scammel there to just stop it falling over or to recover it, how does it move it onto the single track road as shown if it is alongside...dont understand...why would you not use the scammel to pull the truck forwards ensuring that the truck is secured sideways so that it will not fall over...must be missing something here... Paul please..... MM & LL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamond-t-steve Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 (edited) Jobs like that is were a nice big 750 Holmes comes in handy. Park the wrecker pref back to back with the casualty, (the wrecker on the road ) seperate the 2 jibs and swing them both towards the casulty. Attatch the the Holmes jib cable closest to the casualty to the far side and the other jib cable to the side nearest to the wrecker then lift the far side first tilting the casualty towards the wrecker until it is close to level then lift on both jibs together just enough for the rear wheels of the casualty to clear the ground. Next I would turn the casualties steering as far as I could in the direction it needs to go to roll in reverse back onto the road. Then remove the ignition key to lock the steering in that position. Next I would climb into the wrecker and slowly drive forward pulling the casualty back up onto the road in the direction it went off.......... This description is a little simplified as there are nearly always complications but that is how I would and indeed have, recovered trucks from this position..... Edited January 20, 2011 by diamond-t-steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosrec Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 not totally following you here, is the scammel there to just stop it falling over or to recover it, how does it move it onto the single track road as shown if it is alongside...dont understand...why would you not use the scammel to pull the truck forwards ensuring that the truck is secured sideways so that it will not fall over...must be missing something here... Sorry i havnt made a better job of describing this job the scammell is parked a little ways in front of the casualty and recovering it. I was going to do another drawing to suggest the ideal angle for winch rope when viewed from above is 45 degrees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamond-t-steve Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Sorry i havnt made a better job of describing this job the scammell is parked a little ways in front of the casualty and recovering it. I was going to do another drawing to suggest the ideal angle for winch rope when viewed from above is 45 degrees. I would have thought that there would be a good chance that the back of the casualty would slide further down the bank and possibly turn over if you pull forward like that ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosrec Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Jobs like that is were a nice big 750 Holmes comes in handy.Park the wrecker pref back to back with the casualty, (the wrecker on the road ) seperate the 2 jibs and swing them both towards the casulty. Attatch the the Holmes jib cable closest to the casualty to the far side and the other jib cable to the side nearest to the wrecker then lift the far side first tilting the casualty towards the wrecker until it is close to level then lift on both jibs together just enough for the rear wheels of the casualty to clear the ground. Next I would turn the casualties steering as far as I could in the direction it needs to go to roll in reverse back onto the road. Then remove the ignition key to lock the steering in that position. Next I would climb into the wrecker and slowly drive forward pulling the casualty back up onto the road in the direction it went off.......... This description is a little simplified as there are nearly always complications but that is how I would and indeed have, recovered trucks from this position..... I am a bit mystified now you want to describe how lifting the front of the truck is going to get back wheels of truck clear of floor working on example i have given not that i am knocking use of 750 its the ideal use for vehicle although not exactly as you describe. I have tried in all posts to try and use ways that available to members of this forum not many people on this forum will have access to a 750 as a HMV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamond-t-steve Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 I am a bit mystified now you want to describe how lifting the front of the truck is going to get back wheels of truck clear of floor working on example i have given not that i am knocking use of 750 its the ideal use for vehicle although not exactly as you describe. I have tried in all posts to try and use ways that available to members of this forum not many people on this forum will have access to a 750 as a HMV I ment lifting the back of the casualty then use the casualties steering front wheels to bring the front of the casualty back onto the road......I do appologise as I was trying to describe from the point of view of a recovery operator not as advise to a MV user. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
recymech66 Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 I understand Cosrecs drawing and description, I've recovered many trucks like this in places like Bosnia and Kosovo on high mountain tracks with not much room to squeeze past the casualty, By positioning the wrecker as far over to the left as possible as you look at the drawing thereby allowing the winch to pull at an angle of approx 45 degrees then anchoring the end of the winch rope as low down as possible will in effect try to pull the casualty down and towards the back of the wrecker, once the slack has been taken up quite alot of downward force will be applied and will be just enough to stop the casualty from rolling, the trailer will eventually naturally follow the unit up onto the road. You may run out of room and have to reposition a number of times. And yes a Tirfor is an excellent machine for anchoring vehicles that may roll once a pull is applied, we always carry one on our wrecker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamond-t-steve Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 (edited) I would like to add though, that unless the casualty vehicle belongs to the MV owner/operator I would strongly advise against attempting any such recovery operation. The litigation involved should anything go wrong would make your eyes water. Your insurance would NOT cover you. Edited January 20, 2011 by diamond-t-steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosrec Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 I ment lifting the back of the casualty then use the casualties steering front wheels to bring the front of the casualty back onto the road......I do appologise as I was trying to describe from the point of view of a recovery operator not as advise to a MV user. No problem and if you have any pictures etc that highlight any principles that help with safe recovery they will be welcomed on here by most people Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosrec Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 To continue with the one down the slope if rigged as I described in drawing the secret to success is to get up close and work a little at a time. If casualty gets to point were it is getting close to winching vehicle stop let go and pull forward a little re rig have another go. It may take 2 or 3 attempts but you will end up with the lower front end wheel on or very near the top of the embankment. Also as you are not only pulling sideways but slightly forward the rear wheels should be a little higher up the embankment.. The whole vehicle will also be more stable. But still try not to be greedy and finish it of in one go with a long winch forward. As the vehicle is now more stable let go pull forward slightly and re rig again by now you will able to hang to somewhere of to the right hand side of vehicle and winch again your aim being to get the front end as far to left hand side of road as possible even to the point of putting the left hand front wheel over the gradient at the left hand side if that’s what it takes. The aim of all this a little bit at a time equal amounts forward and sideways at the same time is to end with at least one of the rear lower back wheels on or near the top of the embankment . From here it is just straight forward winches pull to get the whole vehicle back on to roadway. If you try pulling sideways to much it will probably defeat the winch vehicle and drag it sideways. Too much forward pull and at best casualty won’t climb. So once again a little bit at a time equal amounts to side and forward or at about 45 degrees. Winch only you can get some vehicles out of quite tricky places Not the best of pics but should show sort of angle to aim for Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosrec Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 (edited) [ATTACH=CONFIG]40475[/ATTACH] Edited January 22, 2011 by cosrec Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulob1 Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 [ATTACH=CONFIG]40475[/ATTACH] GET YOU NOW, so in your picture you are slightly forward of the casualty, or slightly behind..that's what I did not understand. saw a truck on M3 on thursday afternoon exactly like this, had gone too close to the edge and slipped over, still upright but very precarious... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosrec Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 (edited) A few more showing jobs recovered using methods i described. Although not all have limited room to work all take into account where the CG and more then anything this will dictate where you hang to when winching and lifting. [ATTACH=CONFIG]40625[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]40626[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]40627[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]40628[/ATTACH] Edited January 25, 2011 by cosrec Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosrec Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Something to reflect on all the best kit in the world amounts to nothing if the person using it is a numbskull. Just watched this clip makes me want to cry and by the look of the kit he is driving he reckons to be a recovery operator. PS turn the volume down if easily offended.http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=kt_r-jO3lKE [YOUTUBE][/YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=kt_r-jO3lKE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyFowler Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Something to reflect on all the best kit in the world amounts to nothing if the person using it is a numbskull. Just watched this clip makes me want to cry and by the look of the kit he is driving he reckons to be a recovery operator. PS turn the volume down if easily offended.http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=kt_r-jO3lKE[YOUTUBE][/YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=kt_r-jO3lKE I could not believe my eyes ! :wow: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 I could not believe my eyes ! :wow: Look at all the related videos of NY Sanitation Dept with their recovery trucks :undecided: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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