Recovery and Towing

[cosrec]

Once you have added a snatch block you can add more if you run out of holding power you ofset load on to deadmad/anchors etc. After that there is no limit on what you can move given you have enough blocks and rope and something to fasten to.

Couple of tips

When you have complicated set ups just count no of ropes to object being winched then times by load on winch to get power exerted and check if if connections are strong enough

 

when winching on single line or multiple lines anchored to your vehicle the object being winched will follow path of winch lines. When off setting load to deadman etc this isnt the case. But it is something that can be used to advantage to guide object where you want it.

Have put drawing on with simple rigging shown i Know it will be obvious to a lot of you but i catches a lot of people out. We have been out to quite a few jobs were people have rolled HGVs trying to get vehicles out of dykes and put them futher in by not understanding why they are not going towards winching vehicle

Compound rigging is handy but on every day jobs i cant see a use for it we have over the years tackled many thousands of heavy jobs and only resorted to it maybe 5 times.

 

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[cosrec]

Just noticed this photo from a job that has been done lately by our company this is a perfect example of HOW NOT TO USE SNATCH BLOCKS they are getting side loading imposed on them and if crane had been any higher would have resulted in ruined blocks broken wires etc. Photos only came to my attention today somebody in for an upping tomorrow

[cosrec]

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[gritineye]

Your choice of wrecker may adversely affect the outcome of any recovery job....

 

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http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290470717559&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:GB:1123

[cosrec]

Have got rigged up and started doing some heavy winching using snatch blocks very important to keep an look out for stones. Try and keep blocks clear of ground and dont winch through earth. Also before applying maximum load check and make sure well greased rope hasnt got any stuck to them. Reason a flinty stone goinging around a snatch block under heavy load will go of like small handgrenade throwing fragments a considerable distance. It also subjects rope to piont loading which can cause strand breaks or deformation.

 

When doing recovery it oftence becomes the case where it takes more to winch a vehicle than it would to physically lift vehicle staight up. Now it may not be practical to back up and pick up vehicle but if you can arrange for an elevated winching angle you can oftence halve the load you need to apply. Unfotunatly most milatry vehicles have no provision to do this eg they can only lift straight up or indepently winch straight out to back or front. In these cases your only option is to try and use terrain to gain elevation.

 

One vehicle that can supply an elevated winching angle is the scammell EKA these well rigged are the equal of two much bigger straight winching trucks in the right circumstances.

 

Another is the 989 diamond t series of trucks even to day these little trucks can be more than a match for some modern much bigger vehicles. Will put a drawing on to show what i mean.

 

To sum up On a post about the Stolly swimming i got a slating for stating what i thought of the operation. It was also suggested i was doing nothing to say what was being done wrong. Hope these ramblings have done a bit to put this right..

Maybe someone has learnt a little bit from this. Maybe it has put someone off doing something that could be dangerous Hopefully it may have saved someone some grief. Plus it may have given somebody a little knowledge and enable them to get some enjoyment out of a situation. Never know might just get you out of a sticky situation one day.

Edited September 4, 2010 by cosrec

[recymech66]

Nice one Cosrec, all good sound tips.

[ChasSomT.]

cosrec, your posts are Brilliant!

I'm sure I'm far from alone in finding this subject fascinating. Please keep it up.

I have long thought I'm a 'frustrated Recce mech'. I've thoroughly enjoyed the times I've been involved in recovery, and lifting in general. I'm lucky, things have gone well when I've been the one to 'jump-in' and take charge of a situation!

Great posts, Very informative, much appreciated.

Chas.

[rbrtcrowther]

It's not just ramblings it's usefull information and i for one enjoy logging on to read this thread and have learned a few good tips. I would like to see a few more pictures of recovery jobs with a little bit of a discription if possible. Super stuff:tup::

[Desert Rat]

It's not just ramblings it's usefull information and i for one enjoy logging on to read this thread and have learned a few good tips. I would like to see a few more pictures of recovery jobs with a little bit of a discription if possible. Super stuff:tup::

 

Totally agree. Brilliant thread and very informative.

 

Yes, it would be great to see more recovery pictures as all you normally get to see is a crashed vehicle or the same vehicle on tow. It would be good to see what happens in between.

:thanx:

[cosrec]

As promised a drawing to show how to use DT969 to its full potential. Notice the winch lines pass under the vehicle between 1st and 2nd axles. Think you will agree 25 ton of winching power from a 9 ton vehicle is impressive. The vehicle is only reciveng about 3.5 tons load which is pressing straight down a load it is more than capable of carrying the actual winching loads are carried across the head stock of the crane and are perfectly balanced so there is no need for any stabilisers in deed dont even need the handbrake on to deliver these winching forces. So you might have a 70 year old truck but under the right conditions you can have fantastic power available with virtually no stress to the vehicle. To give you an idea of what a 25 ton winching force will do i have put on a picture of a fully loaded mixer it would take around half this force to recover it.

 

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[rbrtcrowther]

I have never seen that type of recovery set up in use and wonderd just how it could be deployed. It's all normally stowed away on a pristine lorry an your left wondering how it all comes into play. So thanks for explaning that especialy the fact that the winch cables can be passed under the dt. It would make a really good static display for a DT owner to set up if there was enough space. I had the landy out today for some fun with the guys from the club and was winching for pleasure. And with all this information i've been taking in we had things rigged and sorted much qiucker and with less load on the gear. using the terrain to our advantage rather than fighting against it. :thumbsup:

[N.O.S.]

Anyone ever used these? WW2 U.S.?

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[nptimber]

Anyone ever used these? WW2 U.S.?

[ATTACH=CONFIG]33914[/ATTACH]

They are made by trewhella rolfe st smethwick birmingham they are used to shorten a winch rope or sling and are part of the kit that comes with the trewhella monkey winch

[N.O.S.]

Many thanks for that, NPT. Good old British kit then :-)

[Richard Farrant]

Anyone ever used these? WW2 U.S.?

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Hi Tony,

 

I have used them, as said already, Trewhella made them. When working for REME, I used to test and repair winches, cranes and recovery equipment and when doing the annual winch inspection and max. load cut out test, I have used the shorteners on some of the longer ropes, for practical purposes and we had some that were rated at 30 tons. Never had a problem with them, but just an observation on the photo, the rope loop could get damaged from point loading if used with a shackle or suchlike. I had a large diameter collar in them, like a pulley, this stopped the rope flattening.

Edited September 5, 2010 by Richard Farrant

[radiomike7]

To give you an idea of what a 25 ton winching force will do i have put on a picture of a fully loaded mixer it would take around half this force to recover it.

 

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Cosrec, what would be the best way to recover the loaded mixer without causing further damage? Pulling it upright with a double high level pull looks easy enough but the N/S wheels would still be over the ditch. Would you lift the chassis and drag it clear of the ditch first or would a mobile crane be a better way and easier to control the casualty with such a high centre of gravity? I am also thinking of the time element before the concrete begins to set and writes the drum off.

Edited September 6, 2010 by radiomike7

[N.O.S.]

.... Never had a problem with them, but just an observation on the photo, the rope loop could get damaged from point loading if used with a shackle or suchlike. I had a large diameter collar in them, like a pulley, this stopped the rope flattening.

 

Which is why I was struggling trying to work out how these were used. I'd assumed the loop - because it didn'y have a wear surface like the thimble in a rope end - was for just releasing what is effectively a wedge socket joint, enabling the rope to be looped through to take up any unwanted slack and then locked.

 

You've solved the mystery for me, Richard!

[rbrtcrowther]

I did pretty much the same thing about 6 years ago but it was a mobile crane i stuffed into a ditch on a single track road.:blush: IT was recoverd by a scammell crusader which was set up in front of the crane. The winch rope then went out at about 30 degrees to a buldozer which we buried in the field in line with the side of the crane. Web strops were put round the jib and the whole thing was pulled upright with the winch. The crane was fired up and with the aid of the rear steer and four wheel drive it drove out as the winch kept the pull on.

I have some pics of it somewhere but none of the recovery as i was the only one who could fit through the window to get in the crane to drive it:-)

[recymech66]

I did pretty much the same thing about 6 years ago but it was a mobile crane i stuffed into a ditch on a single track road.:blush: IT was recoverd by a scammell crusader which was set up in front of the crane. The winch rope then went out at about 30 degrees to a buldozer which we buried in the field in line with the side of the crane. Web strops were put round the jib and the whole thing was pulled upright with the winch. The crane was fired up and with the aid of the rear steer and four wheel drive it drove out as the winch kept the pull on.

I have some pics of it somewhere but none of the recovery as i was the only one who could fit through the window to get in the crane to drive it:-)

 

Talking of cranes, here's one I did in Northern Ireland about 13 years ago. Before everybody slates me for winching it over on to it's boom, the drop was about a metre from the road which isn't apparent in the pic's, on the opposite side of the road a house and grounds were preventing us from placing the recovery vehicles in the ideal position so to attempt recovering it onto the road, given were we were and the enemy threat (IRA) authority to winch over, and over onto it's wheels was given. A rep from the crane company came out to inspect prior to winching and accertained only cosmetic damage would be caused and fairly cheap repairs (panels etc) would be needed to get it back on the road.

 

Web album generated by Web Gallery Wizard PRO™.

[rbrtcrowther]

Well that makes mine look pretty rubbish. :embarrassed: We had only had the crane about 8 months and i stuffed it:shocked:[ATTACH=CONFIG]33990[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]33988[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]33991[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]33987[/ATTACH]

[recymech66]

Beware of them soft verges :cool2: Oh and a lovely Scammell.

[mike65]

Interesting thread thanks.

I am learning alot about winching which I will probably (and hopefully) never need, but it is nice to know a bit.

 

Seems to me that when it comes to winchingand/or recovery the most important bit of kit is a Scammell.

 

Mike

[rbrtcrowther]

the Foden is a good truck too so long as you can get climb into the cab without it overturning on to you:)

[recymech66]

the Foden is a good truck too so long as you can get climb into the cab without it overturning on to you:)

 

SVR is even better:-D

[cosrec]

Cosrec, what would be the best way to recover the loaded mixer without causing further damage? Pulling it upright with a double high level pull looks easy enough but the N/S wheels would still be over the ditch. Would you lift the chassis and drag it clear of the ditch first or would a mobile crane be a better way and easier to control the casualty with such a high centre of gravity? I am also thinking of the time element before the concrete begins to set and writes the drum off.

 

I went on this job myself so will try and answer your questions. The picture doesnt actually show very well were the dyke started it is actually about 4ft away from the road. the wheels are sunk on the soft verge between road and dyke the fat middle part of drum is only just resting on opposite side of dyke. the dyke is about 4ft deep if you look to front of mixer the darker green strip is weeds that are choking dyke and give a better idea how it runs. Lifting chassis and dragging on to road would create two big problems. 1 the drum on a mixer is ony held on by gravity at the back if it comes clear of the rollers you have major headaches. 2 pulling it around would caused the drum to fall into dyke causing it to be headdown this would double any winching forces required to stand it back up again.

We used a modern wrecker with twin winches on boom parked at right angles in a stubble field opposite two wide straps fastened to chassis then wrapped around drum (makes sure drum is kept tight in rear rollers) using elevated winching pulled until os wheels almost on floor. piont here the fact wheels are off the road is to your advantage as it they dig in and stop mixer shuffling on its side. next big dollop of swarfega on each os tyre and where its going to hit road. then winch untill vehicle is level. once upright it takes virtually nothing to hold it then removed front winch line down to a block on rear leg out to rear most part of chassis on mixer another block and back to wrecker. then its a case of winching the back across and giving a little tweek on top line untill it slides back across road . On this ocassion had to then go to road and winch a bit more to get front wheel out of soft verge. Damage to mirror door and side guards but driver still drove on to destination and tipped 2 hr from call to tipping load. Thank for asking questions

Quick tip if mixer is stuck but still mixing 3 bags of sugar in back will buy you enough time to get some gear on scene to sort it out

Edited September 6, 2010 by Marmite!!
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