Unipower - History, technical details, drawings?

[codyrob]

Hi everyone

Hoping you are all well.  I've been fascinated for over 30 years with Scammell, Leyland, Unipower vehicles, an absolute marvel of UK engineering, in the days when the UK still had a world renown industry. For many years I've searched and collected books, articles and brochures, many of which document the brilliant Scammell, Leyland story but for Unipower, sadly, there are hardly any details.

As I know it, Unipower, from its days with cars then specialist trucks, purchased the rights to the Scammell / Leyland brands, and apart from the excellent details revealed on the HMVF pages by Clive of Protrucks, there seems to be very little information.  Alvis-Unipower Ltd seems to have existed for some twelve years from 1988 but apart from a few brochures there are no books?

Having contacted various UK Museums, the Alvis Register, even BAE, who inherited the Alvis-Unipower brand, and the Royal Army of Oman, I have been unable to find technical details / drawings of vehicles such as the MH6660 / MH8750 tank transporters.

If anyone knows of a source, or of those fantastic engineers who were a part of the industrial history at Watford, then please let me know.  I hope I am wrong but I fear such history may have been lost.  Best wishes.

Keith

[john1950]

Unipower an under rated marque. ALE May have some information as they buddy the ones they have with there Trojan's

[codyrob]

Many thanks John.  I did read somewhere ALE had purchased MH8750 plans to enable them to build new trucks.  Thanks.

Keith

[john1950]

I did read some of the information on the Trojan build it was very interesting. You may also give the Commercial Vehicle Museum at Leyland a try as they hold a tremendous amount of material on vehicle builders. 

[codyrob]

Hi again John

Thanks again, I've never heard of the museum but have just looked it up and will fire off an email enquiry. 

Keith

[TJSB]

Some good info in Nick Georgano's book, Scammell, the load movers from Watford. Truck magazine and others have done articles on Br90 and I think Trucking did one on Scammell and Unipower history. Probably have them but currently in storage.  

Toby

[codyrob]

Hi Toby

Thanks, I have the Scammell book and have collected a number of magazine articles over the years.  I'm hoping John's suggestion to contact the Commercial Vehicle Museum bears fruit.

What concerns me is whether the technical details of these vehicles (MH6660/MH8750) and engineering behind them have been collected.  For example, I appreciate I'm being a little too detailed, but what exactly are the systems situated directly behind the cab of these vehicles?  Only detail drawings or technical manuals would have this detail and I'm not sure these have been preserved.  My guess is cooling / hydraulics systems serving the engine / gearbox and winch mechanism.

Regarding the BR90 bridging vehicles currently in service, whilst they have similar cabs and chassis, they are not the same as the MH6660 / MH8750, and the BR90 being a larger number of in-service vehicles will mean details of these will be available / preserved.  

Keith

[TJSB]

Dear Keith, 

 

As you say, the AESPs for the Br90 variants will provide a wealth of information. The Br90 chassis are a sort of I beam and different to the MH 8750 which is channel from looking at pictures. A long shot would be to see if there is someone who knows what tech docs the Omani Army use and whether any of it can be made available.

Toby 

[codyrob]

Thanks Toby, I've tried contacting the Royal Army of Oman (RAO) but alas with no response.  Not unexpected though as the vehicle (MH6660) remains in service.

I am in contact with the REME Museum, and hope their relationship with the RAO EME bears a positive result.

The French have a number of BR90 type vehicles in service, but they do appear to be similar to the BR90s.

Keith

[radiomike7]

On 9/7/2024 at 10:49 AM, codyrob said:

The French have a number of BR90 type vehicles in service, but they do appear to be similar to the BR90s.

Keith

The 6 A.L.E. Trojans were allegedly built on French surplus BR90 chassis. The rear axles and gearbox were uprated and a Volvo Penta engine fitted. I am almost sure the original A.L.E. 8x8 tractor was the prototype tank transporter that was turned down in favour of the Oshkosh.

Unipower also updated the Scammell S24 and produced several versions including some for Scottish Nuclear/EDF.

At a Unipower open day about 30 years ago there were several BR90s in build and I seem to remember the systems behind the cab were the various cooling systems which were driven by hydraulics.

[codyrob]

Hi, thanks so much for the insight, I'm sure your right.  That would have been fascinating open day.

With the forward cab of the A.L.E / BR90 / MH666O type vehicles, I presume the engine / gearbox is partially located toward the rear of the cab.  Once again, without the design details its pure conjecture.

Keith

[john1950]

There is much ambiguity in the published information on these vehicles. A commercial Motor article quotes a Perkins engine type that is a 4 cylinder, It is unusual for them to be incorrect. Commercial Motor left a letter off. Initial power plant seems to be a Perkins Eagle 400 TX rated at403 BHP. with an optional Cummins M405E rated at 400 BHP. I can find on the MH series an article that quotes a Cummins KTA-19-600 coupled to a 5 speed ZF gearbox.  a similar 6 speed gearbox is used in the Scammell D.R.O.P.S. It is a cab ahead of engine either 2 or 6 person variant. One version has a small intrusion into the rear of the cab for the engine. I presume this is removed and the cab moved forward to allow for the 3rd crew member. Early versions seem to be rated around 400 BHP with either Perkins or Cummins power plants. ALE purchased the tank transporter demonstrator which had damage to the engine from water ingress, as well as 6 ex French Army units. Cabs seem to have been made by Penman Engineering. 

Edited September 16 by john1950
update

[utt61]

On 9/8/2024 at 2:55 PM, codyrob said:

Hi, thanks so much for the insight, I'm sure your right.  That would have been fascinating open day.

With the forward cab of the A.L.E / BR90 / MH666O type vehicles, I presume the engine / gearbox is partially located toward the rear of the cab.  Once again, without the design details its pure conjecture.

Keith

Yes, the engine, gearbox and cooling pack is in the block immediately behind the cab.

 

On 9/8/2024 at 1:56 PM, radiomike7 said:

The 6 A.L.E. Trojans were allegedly built on French surplus BR90 chassis. The rear axles and gearbox were uprated and a Volvo Penta engine fitted. I am almost sure the original A.L.E. 8x8 tractor was the prototype tank transporter that was turned down in favour of the Oshkosh.

Unipower also updated the Scammell S24 and produced several versions including some for Scottish Nuclear/EDF.

At a Unipower open day about 30 years ago there were several BR90s in build and I seem to remember the systems behind the cab were the various cooling systems which were driven by hydraulics.

I had the good fortune to attend that open day radiomike7 mentions, and have quite a few photos I took on the day. As I recall it was late 1987 or early 1988.  

P547HNT, ALE's original heavy haulage tractor is indeed the sole prototype MH8875 tank transporter built as a demonstrator but sadly rejected (allegedly for political reasons) in favour of the Oshkosh HET, an act which effectively marked the death knell of Scammell, Unipower, and truck building in Watford.  P547HNT was sold initially to GEC Alstom and later transferred to ALE, and has been substantially modified since the MH8875 demonstrator days.

 

[codyrob]

Hi utt61

Thanks so much, were there any MH6660 vehicles under construction, and if so, did you take any photos of the rear of the 6x6?  I would be very interested and more than happy to pay any costs for the photos.

Its brilliant that these details still exist, these are so important to the heritage of the UK truck industry.

Keith

[radiomike7]

1 hour ago, codyrob said:

Hi utt61

Thanks so much, were there any MH6660 vehicles under construction, and if so, did you take any photos of the rear of the 6x6?  I would be very interested and more than happy to pay any costs for the photos.

Its brilliant that these details still exist, these are so important to the heritage of the UK truck industry.

Keith

Try here, the photos blow up quite well.

https://www.primeportal.net/bridging/ulrich_wrede/vickers_br90_bv/

[utt61]

The BR90 vehicles were/are all 8x8.whereas the MH6660 that codyrob is asking about was a 6x6, and all of them as far as I know went overseas (unless some were used as the basis of airport crash tenders, something I'd have to check).

I believe also that although ALE bought the ex-French MH 8875 vehicles with the intention of rebuilding them in the end they built the MH 8870 "Trojan" fleet from scratch, albeit heavily inspired by the original Unipower MH 8875. I remember seeing the by then superfluous French vehicles advertised and thinking what a cool truck to own! The only problems were firstly they were still very expensive and secondly they're overwidth (as are the TBTs) so either need Crown exemption from C&U Revs or have to operate on an STGO, both of which make private ownership difficult.

The ALE Trojans are to the best of my knowledge the first tractors in the word that support multiple unit operation, with the lead driver being able to control power, gearshifts and brakes from the lead unit.

Edited September 16 by utt61
Undoing erroneous autocorrection - "overwidth" had been changed to "overweight"

[codyrob]

4 hours ago, radiomike7 said:

Try here, the photos blow up quite well.

https://www.primeportal.net/bridging/ulrich_wrede/vickers_br90_bv/

Many thanks, very good photos of the BR90.

[john1950]

There is a good video on utube of 3 Unipower's working a 450 tonne transformer in a bridge trailer from the factory.

[radiomike7]

3 hours ago, john1950 said:

There is a good video on utube of 3 Unipower's working a 450 tonne transformer in a bridge trailer from the factory.

Not sure which video you mean but I suspect they are Trojans designed and engineered by A.L.E. and based on French BR90s.

[radiomike7]

18 hours ago, utt61 said:

I believe also that although ALE bought the ex-French MH 8875 vehicles with the intention of rebuilding them in the end they built the MH 8870 "Trojan" fleet from scratch, albeit heavily inspired by the original Unipower MH 8875. I remember seeing the by then superfluous French vehicles advertised and thinking what a cool truck to own! The only problems were firstly they were still very expensive and secondly they're overwidth (as are the TBTs) so either need Crown exemption from C&U Revs or have to operate on an STGO, both of which make private ownership difficult.

The ALE Trojans are to the best of my knowledge the first tractors in the word that support multiple unit operation, with the lead driver being able to control power, gearshifts and brakes from the lead unit.

There was a long article on the 6 Trojans which was written with help from A.L.E., I'm almost sure the chassis and front axles were reused from the BR90s and a couple of spare chassis were sold on.

The SOEC Sunday visit to Unipower was slightly later than 1987/8, I was on a split shift that day and managed to fit the trip in to an extended break. Scammell closed their doors in 1988 and I got my HGV licence in 1989 so I suspect it was 1990/1.