1944WC52 Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 29 RAF Lancaster bombers attack and sink the Tirpitz (the infamous sister ship to the Bismark) Brent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlienFTM Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 29 RAF Lancaster bombers attack and sink the Tirpitz (the infamous sister ship to the Bismark) Brent There's a coincidence. I went into my Tuesday 10 o'clock meeting where one of my colleagues described an item to me. I had no clue about the item, but he added, "I saw it when I visited (some place in) the New Forest, site of the drop of the biggest ever bomb in the UK." To which I replied, "That would be a Grand Slam then." I then pointed out that the Americans go on and on about MOAB being the biggest ever non-nuclear bomb to be dropped, but in fact according to figures I saw earlier this year, the Grand Slam, developed over 60 years ago, weighed a few pounds more. Tirpitz. Attacked time and again by 617 Squadron, The Dambusters, only to be thwarted by a smoke screen the size of a county whenever an allied aircraft came over the horizon. Damaged and, courtesy of Op Chariot destroying the dry dock at St Nazaire, nowhere to go for repairs. Parked up in a fjord for the duration of the war. Ironically they moved Tirpitz from one fjord to another, supposedly to offer it better protection, only to bring it within range of Lancasters flying from Scotland to Russia. One Grand Slam in the water created a tidal wave big enough to turn the whole thing turtle. Grand Slam broke the sound barrier in free fall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 PLEASE NOTE Gentlemen, when informed that Tirpitz had been sunk by the RAF, the Royal Navy threw teddy out the window, and denied she had been sunk. The reason - the bottom of the hull was still showing!! :whistle: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeEnfield Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 PLEASE NOTE Gentlemen, when informed that Tirpitz had been sunk by the RAF, the Royal Navy threw teddy out the window, and denied she had been sunk. The reason - the bottom of the hull was still showing!! :whistle: Well what do you expect from SAILORS................... ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hardyferret Posted November 18, 2007 Share Posted November 18, 2007 let us not forget gentlemen the immortal words of the Navy, 'Kiss me hardy' :whist Did this start the infamous Rum, Bum, and Baccey :dunno: Or the classic ditty 'All the nice boys like a sailor' always goes down a storm with the Marines (green job's) Good friend of mine is a diver of many years standing, taught me and wrote many of BSAC's manuals technical articles, has a face plate from a diving suit worn by an x craft diver . This was recovered from the site of Tirpitz in the 60's, if only it could talk :schocked: HF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted November 19, 2007 Share Posted November 19, 2007 Tirpitz was not sunk with Grand Slam but with Tallboy a smaller 11,800 lbs bomb of which 5,200 Lbs was the Torpex filling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted November 19, 2007 Share Posted November 19, 2007 Only 42 Grand slams were ever dropped and none against the Tirpitz. 41 were dropped over occupied europe . The one dropped on British soil was dropped from 18,000 feet over Godshill on the edge of the Ashley Walk bombing range in Hampshire. This was the first drop of Grand Slam and the date was 13th March 1945. The first operational use was the following day When 15 Lancasters attacked and destroyed the Bielefeld Viaduct. 14 Lancasters dropped TallBoy and one Lanc dropped the only Grand Slam. It is claimed that the Grand Slam actually brought down a section of the Viaduct. Tirpitz was attacked by both 617 and 9 squadrons. 9 squadron operated out of Bardney, one of the closest Airfields to Scampton, Woodhall Spa and Conningsby, the three airfields used by 617 Squadron, and they were the second "High precision" squadrons charged with dropping these very expensive Tall Boy bombs. bombs. (There was a full weeks maching carried out on each Grand Slam and they were only being produced at the rate of two a month.) it was not helped when a ship bringing over american made bombs was sunk crossing the Atlantic. After the war 15 squadron converted to Lancaster Mark1 (specials) and were the only other Squadron apart from 617 to be given Grand Slam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 I believe the Lancaster's used for Grand Slam 10 ton required high power merlin 24 engines, very few available. Tallboy being 6 ton could be carried by standard lancs. the other reason was fuel - weight considerations. the first Lanc raid was launched from Russia. when the German's moved her she just came into range of raids from UK. Also at the time the smoke pots that had hampered the first attempt had been delivered but were not operational. Wallis had also designed an aircraft he called the Victory bomber to carry them. If you visit Catford, opposite the bus station just by the entrance to the supermarket, there is a row of houses. The last one has a blue plaque on it Barnes Wallis lived here. (Not a lot of people know that) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Mayhem Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 [Did this start the infamous Rum, Bum, and Baccey /quote] And the lash, don't forget the lash. All that stwipping & whipping! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlienFTM Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 Tirpitz was not sunk with Grand Slam but with Tallboy a smaller 11,800 lbs bomb of which 5,200 Lbs was the Torpex filling. That's what you get for relying on memory when you reach a certain age. ;o) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeEnfield Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 [Did this start the infamous Rum, Bum, and Baccey /quote] And the lash, don't forget the lash. All that stwipping & whipping! :naughty: :naughty: :whistle: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 The Lanc B1 (special) was a very stripped version of the Lanc. Some had only one gun in the front Turret, others had this turret completely removed, none had the Dorsal Turret and some had only two of the four rear guns. The Armour plate behind the pilot had to be removed and the Navigators Alloy and leather chair was replaced with a cane chair. On some missions the radio was removed and the operator left behind. It was normal to only carry enough ammo for one two second burst per gun. Grand Slam was too big to fit in the bomb bay so the doors were removed and the resulting hole faired over, the bomb being partly inside the lines of the plane. The Undercarraige of the standard Lanc was not up to the job and the B1 (special) used the landing gear from the Lincoln (also known breifly as the Lancaster Mk4) It was normal for Bombers over germany to carry an extra 100 Gallons of fuel, over and above the theoretiocal load, to allow for unseen headwinds or other gremlins but the B1 (special) had to make do without the luxury of any margin for error. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 And STILL they flew :? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abn deuce Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 I m still learning new things that I hadnt come across in WW2 book's before , Thank You Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlienFTM Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 And STILL they flew :? According to Brickhill's definitive "Dambusters", aircraft taking off with Grand Slams could clearly be seen to have their wings bending under the load. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 Was trying to remember that book. A definite must read for those who have missed it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeEnfield Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 Another book worth getting/looking at, esp for Brilliant pic's, is, LANCASTER, a bombing legend. by Nick Radell and Mike Vines. isbn 1 85152 969 1 basically a photographic celebration of the Lancaster, featuring the only two airworthy Lanc's in existance; B Mk1 and B MkX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 When taking off the Grand Slam aircraft had barely made 1000 feet by the english coast. On They were not supposed to bomb below 14,000 feet because they would be hit by the blast, but one account I read says they bombed at 11,800 feet because that is all the height they could acheive, On releasing the bomb the aircraft jumped up 600 feet. The Aircrews called the B1 (special) "Clapper Birds", because once the bomb was away, the Lanc was so light and with Merlin 24's they sped home at a speed unobtainable by any other four engined bomber... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlienFTM Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 When taking off the Grand Slam aircraft had barely made 1000 feet by the english coast. On They were not supposed to bomb below 14,000 feet because they would be hit by the blast, but one account I read says they bombed at 11,800 feet because that is all the height they could acheive, On releasing the bomb the aircraft jumped up 600 feet. "Bomber" by Len Deighton is a work of fiction but it is superbly researched. He describes how Lancaster crews, having got as high as aerodynamics would take them, would drop the airbrakes briefly, which caused them to lurch another few feet higher. After a slack handful of these manoeuvres, they'd be that little bit higher than the rest of the stream, which got to take the brunt of the flak. But they handled like bricks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted December 17, 2007 Share Posted December 17, 2007 Going back to this, one of the books I recently rescued describes in detail the attack on Tirpitz in September 1944 by 617 and 9squadron. In addition to 617 with Tallboys 9 were carrying the 'JW' or 'Johnny Walker' mine. These little gizmos were 6 foot long and 151/4 inch wide, Lancaster could carry 12. The way it worked is fascinating, After dropping a drogue chute deployed, if the weapon hit a solid surface an impact fuse operated exploding the 100lb Torpex/Aluminium charge. If however it landed in water, the drogue released and it sank to 60 feet. At this point a hydrostatic valve operated releasing Hydrogen gas. This caused the weapon to rise, due to fins attached to the casing it would rise nose first at an angle, causing it to displace about 30 feet horizontally. If it got up to about 20 feet with no target the gas was released the weapon turned nose down, safing the fuse and it sank back to 60 feet were the cycle began again. In addition the charge was shaped with an explosively forming slug liner. There was a futher nasty trick in the arsenal. The inclusion of powdered Ally in the charge gave rise to a large gas formation. the idea was to bodily lift the hull of Tirpitz several feet and when the pressure collapsed drop her again. Unfortunately none were successful and self destructed. Never heard of this great little toy before now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abn deuce Posted December 17, 2007 Share Posted December 17, 2007 so many creative brain's that worked on so many special projects that I m sure we have not found out about all of them yet from WWII. So lite the blue touch paper and retire now , shall we? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 Great thread and there is some serious knowledge on HMVF - its like reading a book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 Jack's hinting AGAIN :dunno: I've finished it so will post, Amazon ought to give us a discount. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.