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Abbot FV433 Radio/Comms System - Clansman info sought


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I’m finishing my Abbot comms set up, exactly as originally fitted, including all Larkspur boxes and the Clansman IBRA Larkspur interface unit.

I have the Clansman 351 ready to ‘go in’ but can’t quite find anywhere to actually confirm whether the set was a 351 or a 352 (with the 20W amplifier) . No document I’ve seen specifically states which set, more often the document would just state ‘351/352’ which doesn’t really help, unless either set could have been fitted?

Ant help/advice much appreciated.

Brian

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As you probably know the 352 was just a 351 with the clip-on RF amp, so does it really matter? Would a gun warrant the 352? I can see that the command post might need the extra range but not an individual gun.

 

Gordon

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Thanks Gordon,

yes I can see that the 20W is not needed for the gun, noting also that the Larkspur B48 that was replaced  by the Clansman had less than 1W output.

I was just trying to ensure the setup was as close to the original as possible. I have a 20W amp anyway so not a problem either way.

Brian

 

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Clive,

Unfortunately I don’t have EMER D320…9 nor do I know what it is for - presumably the actual vehicle? 

Andy, 

I’ve only ever seen one photo of the Abbot with the 351/352 fitted but can’t make out if it has the 20W amp or not. All the other Abbots viewable on-line including one I actually managed to physically get into had the radio gear removed.

Brian

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12 hours ago, Larkspur-man said:

Unfortunately I don’t have EMER D320…9 nor do I know what it is for - presumably the actual vehicle? 

Andy,

Andy the EMER for the vehicle itself is in the series EMER TRACKED VEHICLES (or EMER TV) E 100 series. What I was referring to, by way of CI, was EMER COMMUNICATIONS INSTALLATIONS D 320 series. This is purely about the installation in a particular vehicle, not to be confused with EMER TELS or EMER TELECOMMUNICATIONS F 580 series that covers the 351/352 equipment itself.

(Incidentally I am not shouting, but for easy recognition EMER titles are invariably written in upper case. An EMER followed by just a Section & a Category is meaningless without the EMER title being defined. This would be akin asking a librarian for a Charles Dickens book by chapter & page but without giving the title of the book)

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Hi Clive,

It was me that replied to your EMER comment - not Andy, but yes, understand about the EMERS and I have those for the 351/2 set, including user handbooks for the Abbot and the radio sets.

So now (it appears) I’m on the lookout for a CI - COMMUNICATIONS INSTALLATION document for the Abbot…If you know where/if these can be located?

Thanks,

Brian

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Brian yes sorry, I see what I had done when I cropped the quote, that Andy was in reference to your comments to him.

Yes you need EMER COMMUNICATIONS INSTALLATIONS D 320-329

I have a fair number in the EMER CI series but none that relate to tracked vehicles I'm afraid. I think your best bet would by the REME Museum or RS Museum or possibly Bovington or Badley Library, Royal School of Artillery, Larkhill.

Although don't assume that all people working in museums will have a grasp of the structure & designation of EMERs.

One museum inherited a large EMER library where a nit-wit had taken all the A sections from every EMER title & put them all on the same shelf and continued through the whole alphabet!

The REME Museum in particular have inherited large collections of EMER libraries when workshops have closed. Bear in mind that EMERs relating specifically to your vehicle will only be in a particular EMER library if that workshop was responsible for a vehicle of that type. If you can go there & search for yourself that would be the best option.

Throughout the internet there are examples of EMER misunderstandings that are passed on from site to site, there are vehicle experts and authors who appear not to have grasped the EMER structure.

I don't know whether this is through ignorance or sloppiness assuming that say a vehicle will just have a set of "EMERs" that covers it?

But taking the Abbot the associated EMER titles might include:

TRACKED VEHICLES
POWER (eg engine & charging)
COMMUNICATION INSTALLATIONS
TELECOMMUNICATIONS
INSTRUMENTS (eg periscopes & sights)
ENGINEERING & MISCELLANEOUS (eg boiling vessel, cooling systems)
ARMAMENT
SMALL ARMS & MACHINE GUNS
TEST & MEASUREMENT
WORKSHOPS (eg welding, preservation, painting)
MANAGEMENT (eg repair procedures, H&S)
RADAR & FIRE CONTROL EQUIPMENT
GENERAL (eg waterproofing, H&S)

So EMER title is everything as I'm sure you understand, but you need to be prepared that some people working in a museum may not fully understand what you are asking for.

If they say they have nothing, ask whether they have a microfiche collection as quite a lot of EMERs were also published in fiche.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I have D325, which relates to updates to the Clansman fit. The only version I've seen of D320 was at the old REME museum at Arborfield and was entirely Larkspur. There must be later versions, possibly at Lyneham but I haven't yet paid them a visit.

Andy

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Andy,

Pity I wasn’t interested in this when I was at the school of electronic engineering (SEE) at Arborfield in the early 70s! I seem to recall there was an abundance of ‘Précis’ documents based on various equipment’s EMERS.

I haven’t been to Lyneham yet but it’s on my list.

Brian 

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On 6/19/2022 at 3:32 PM, Larkspur-man said:

Andy,

Pity I wasn’t interested in this when I was at the school of electronic engineering (SEE) at Arborfield in the early 70s! I seem to recall there was an abundance of ‘Précis’ documents based on various equipment’s EMERS.

I haven’t been to Lyneham yet but it’s on my list.

Brian 

That raises another interesting question - is there such a thing as a list of SEME documents?  The ones I have for FV432, RB44 and Stalwart are excellent.

Andy

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Yes they are very good at distilling what is covered in EMERs but also including common sense explanations of topics that fall through the gaps of EMERs but are crucial to an understanding of a system.

I haven't updated my list for a few years but this is what I have catalogued & there is no clear cataloguing structure. I also have some originals with very clear diagrams & text which were the original documents with cut & paste sections from which the print run was printed. (Thanks to Roger)

SEME FERRET SCOUT CAR MK 1 & 2. Mar.1986
SEME GEW/EL/7 FV Pattern Electrical Equipment. Undated
SEME G3/017 Batteries & Charging. Oct. 1981
SEME G3/032 FV432 Mk 1 Electrical Systems. Mar. 1981
SEME G3/051 'B' Vehicle Electrical Systems. Oct. 1980
SEME Handout on the Coil Ignition System. Undated
SEME Lecture Precis Elect/11 Ignition Sep.1962
SEME Lecture Precis Elect/18 Cross – Field Generators Sep.1962
SEME V1/03 Petrol Engine Technology for Vehicle Mechanic Initial Students. Jul.1982
SEME V1/14 Transmission, Suspension, Steering, Brakes (Basic) SEME Dec. 1985
SEME V1/14-TA Transmission, Suspension, Steering, Brakes (Basic) SEME Dec. 1985
SEME V1/14 Transmissions Technology - Basic - Part 1. Apr.1998
SEME V1/14 Transmissions Technology - Basic - Part 2. Apr.1998
SEME SARACEN Undated
SEME CVR(T) Chapter 3. The Generating System.
SEME Solex 40 NNIP Carburettor fitted to Rolls Royce 'B' Series Engines. undated

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Robin many of these are endorsed to the effect that the précis may be retained by the student. I have many with a student's name on them, so one would think there would a lot of these out there.

However many are endorsed that when leaving the Army they should be handed into their unit for destruction.

I think there were two reasons for this. Document security & the emphasis that the documents are for training & not to be used in the field where the relevant EMER/AESP carries the authority & will be up to date.

So these days very few of these turn up. Sellers of military books in general do not see any value or prestige in selling them I'm afraid. I will be doing a sweep of the military sections of all the booksellers in Hay on Wye in a few days. But I doubt that I will find anything useful, it is hard enough finding official Army/WO coded publications. Certain sellers ask what is my period of interest? Napoleonic? WW1? WW2?

They are rather taken back when I explain any period is of interest on any subject other than guns, medals & uniforms! Thereafter I am not regarded as a serious collector of military books, how dare they!

I just seek official publications not memoirs & people's opinions as to how they would have better orchestrated a military campaign from their armchair some years later.

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There is/was a seller at W&P who used to have an interesting selection of SEME publications.  I can't remember his name but think he may have been responsible for writing some of them in the first place.

It would be nice to know if there was such a thing as a SEME library that held reference copies of all their publications.  Another thing to check when I finally manage to organise a trip to Lyneham?

Andy

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Andy it was Roger Jones who sadly died recently. Hence my "Thanks to Roger" reference earlier on in this thread about having the originals from which copies were printed.

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In order to identify a pattern for SEME document codes I have updated the list in my collection. But it seems rather erratic in structure with the earliest documents attributed to the Army School of Transport, MT Wing, Bordon and School of Electronic Engineering REME.

SEE REME Precis No.596 Saladin, Saracen & Ferret Electrical Systems. Feb.1965

Precis No.128 MT Wing, RCT Division, General Mechanical Principles 1965-1971

Precis No.30-50 MT Wing General Electrical & Mechanical Principles July 1970

SEME CVR(T) Chapter 3. The Generating System.

SEME EI Note No.91/BG Electrical Instruments

SEME GEW/EL/7   FV Pattern Electrical Equipment. Apr.1978

SEME G3/017        Batteries & Charging. Oct. 1981

SEME G3/032        FV432 Mk 1 Electrical Systems. Mar. 1981

SEME G3/032        FV432 Mk 1 Electrical Systems. Jan. 1988

SEME G3/033        FV Pattern Electrical Equipment (Whld ‘A’) Sep.1979

SEME G3/034        CVR(T) Scorpion Electrical Systems. Mar.1984

SEME ???????         CVR(T) & CVR(W) Electrical Systems

SEME G3/052        AC Vehicle Charging Systems Oct.1982

SEME G3/051        'B' Vehicle Electrical Systems. Oct. 1980

SEME Lecture Precis Elect/11 Ignition Sep.1962

SEME Lecture Precis Elect/18 Cross – Field Generators Sep.1962

SEME PM 1849 Handout on the Coil Ignition System. Undated

SEME PR 265 Ver.2 Land Rover Oct.2004

SEME Precis CVR(T) Automotive

SEME SARACEN Undated

SEME Solex 40 NNIP Carburettor fitted to Rolls Royce 'B' Series Engines. undated

SEME VEW/BW/ENG TECH Engine Technology

SEME V1/03                          Petrol Engine Technology for Vehicle Mechanic Initial Students. Jul.1982

SEME V1/14                          Transmission, Suspension, Steering, Brakes (Basic) SEME Dec. 1985

SEME V1/14-TA                    Transmission, Suspension, Steering, Brakes (Basic) SEME Dec. 1985

SEME V1/14 Ver.3                 Transmissions Technology - Basic - Part 1. Apr.1998

SEME V1/14 PR 38 Ver.3     Transmissions Technology - Basic - Part 2. Apr.1998

SEME V1/39 Electronic Ignition. Feb.1991

SEME V2/08 Ferret Scout Car Mk 1 & 2. Mar.1986

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