Larkspur-man Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 I’m finishing my Abbot comms set up, exactly as originally fitted, including all Larkspur boxes and the Clansman IBRA Larkspur interface unit. I have the Clansman 351 ready to ‘go in’ but can’t quite find anywhere to actually confirm whether the set was a 351 or a 352 (with the 20W amplifier) . No document I’ve seen specifically states which set, more often the document would just state ‘351/352’ which doesn’t really help, unless either set could have been fitted? Ant help/advice much appreciated. Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordonb Posted June 18, 2022 Share Posted June 18, 2022 As you probably know the 352 was just a 351 with the clip-on RF amp, so does it really matter? Would a gun warrant the 352? I can see that the command post might need the extra range but not an individual gun. Gordon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larkspur-man Posted June 18, 2022 Author Share Posted June 18, 2022 Thanks Gordon, yes I can see that the 20W is not needed for the gun, noting also that the Larkspur B48 that was replaced by the Clansman had less than 1W output. I was just trying to ensure the setup was as close to the original as possible. I have a 20W amp anyway so not a problem either way. Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fv1609 Posted June 18, 2022 Share Posted June 18, 2022 Maybe the answer would be found in EMER CI D 320-329 ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym Posted June 18, 2022 Share Posted June 18, 2022 In photographs I've only seen a 352 fitted, but how authentic that is I couldn't say. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larkspur-man Posted June 18, 2022 Author Share Posted June 18, 2022 Clive, Unfortunately I don’t have EMER D320…9 nor do I know what it is for - presumably the actual vehicle? Andy, I’ve only ever seen one photo of the Abbot with the 351/352 fitted but can’t make out if it has the 20W amp or not. All the other Abbots viewable on-line including one I actually managed to physically get into had the radio gear removed. Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fv1609 Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 12 hours ago, Larkspur-man said: Unfortunately I don’t have EMER D320…9 nor do I know what it is for - presumably the actual vehicle? Andy, Andy the EMER for the vehicle itself is in the series EMER TRACKED VEHICLES (or EMER TV) E 100 series. What I was referring to, by way of CI, was EMER COMMUNICATIONS INSTALLATIONS D 320 series. This is purely about the installation in a particular vehicle, not to be confused with EMER TELS or EMER TELECOMMUNICATIONS F 580 series that covers the 351/352 equipment itself. (Incidentally I am not shouting, but for easy recognition EMER titles are invariably written in upper case. An EMER followed by just a Section & a Category is meaningless without the EMER title being defined. This would be akin asking a librarian for a Charles Dickens book by chapter & page but without giving the title of the book) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larkspur-man Posted June 19, 2022 Author Share Posted June 19, 2022 Hi Clive, It was me that replied to your EMER comment - not Andy, but yes, understand about the EMERS and I have those for the 351/2 set, including user handbooks for the Abbot and the radio sets. So now (it appears) I’m on the lookout for a CI - COMMUNICATIONS INSTALLATION document for the Abbot…If you know where/if these can be located? Thanks, Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fv1609 Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 Brian yes sorry, I see what I had done when I cropped the quote, that Andy was in reference to your comments to him. Yes you need EMER COMMUNICATIONS INSTALLATIONS D 320-329 I have a fair number in the EMER CI series but none that relate to tracked vehicles I'm afraid. I think your best bet would by the REME Museum or RS Museum or possibly Bovington or Badley Library, Royal School of Artillery, Larkhill. Although don't assume that all people working in museums will have a grasp of the structure & designation of EMERs. One museum inherited a large EMER library where a nit-wit had taken all the A sections from every EMER title & put them all on the same shelf and continued through the whole alphabet! The REME Museum in particular have inherited large collections of EMER libraries when workshops have closed. Bear in mind that EMERs relating specifically to your vehicle will only be in a particular EMER library if that workshop was responsible for a vehicle of that type. If you can go there & search for yourself that would be the best option. Throughout the internet there are examples of EMER misunderstandings that are passed on from site to site, there are vehicle experts and authors who appear not to have grasped the EMER structure. I don't know whether this is through ignorance or sloppiness assuming that say a vehicle will just have a set of "EMERs" that covers it? But taking the Abbot the associated EMER titles might include: TRACKED VEHICLES POWER (eg engine & charging) COMMUNICATION INSTALLATIONS TELECOMMUNICATIONS INSTRUMENTS (eg periscopes & sights) ENGINEERING & MISCELLANEOUS (eg boiling vessel, cooling systems) ARMAMENT SMALL ARMS & MACHINE GUNS TEST & MEASUREMENT WORKSHOPS (eg welding, preservation, painting) MANAGEMENT (eg repair procedures, H&S) RADAR & FIRE CONTROL EQUIPMENT GENERAL (eg waterproofing, H&S) So EMER title is everything as I'm sure you understand, but you need to be prepared that some people working in a museum may not fully understand what you are asking for. If they say they have nothing, ask whether they have a microfiche collection as quite a lot of EMERs were also published in fiche. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larkspur-man Posted June 19, 2022 Author Share Posted June 19, 2022 Many thanks Clive, I will start digging! Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 I have D325, which relates to updates to the Clansman fit. The only version I've seen of D320 was at the old REME museum at Arborfield and was entirely Larkspur. There must be later versions, possibly at Lyneham but I haven't yet paid them a visit. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larkspur-man Posted June 19, 2022 Author Share Posted June 19, 2022 Andy, Pity I wasn’t interested in this when I was at the school of electronic engineering (SEE) at Arborfield in the early 70s! I seem to recall there was an abundance of ‘Précis’ documents based on various equipment’s EMERS. I haven’t been to Lyneham yet but it’s on my list. Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 On 6/19/2022 at 3:32 PM, Larkspur-man said: Andy, Pity I wasn’t interested in this when I was at the school of electronic engineering (SEE) at Arborfield in the early 70s! I seem to recall there was an abundance of ‘Précis’ documents based on various equipment’s EMERS. I haven’t been to Lyneham yet but it’s on my list. Brian That raises another interesting question - is there such a thing as a list of SEME documents? The ones I have for FV432, RB44 and Stalwart are excellent. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fv1609 Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 Yes they are very good at distilling what is covered in EMERs but also including common sense explanations of topics that fall through the gaps of EMERs but are crucial to an understanding of a system. I haven't updated my list for a few years but this is what I have catalogued & there is no clear cataloguing structure. I also have some originals with very clear diagrams & text which were the original documents with cut & paste sections from which the print run was printed. (Thanks to Roger) SEME FERRET SCOUT CAR MK 1 & 2. Mar.1986 SEME GEW/EL/7 FV Pattern Electrical Equipment. Undated SEME G3/017 Batteries & Charging. Oct. 1981 SEME G3/032 FV432 Mk 1 Electrical Systems. Mar. 1981 SEME G3/051 'B' Vehicle Electrical Systems. Oct. 1980 SEME Handout on the Coil Ignition System. Undated SEME Lecture Precis Elect/11 Ignition Sep.1962 SEME Lecture Precis Elect/18 Cross – Field Generators Sep.1962 SEME V1/03 Petrol Engine Technology for Vehicle Mechanic Initial Students. Jul.1982 SEME V1/14 Transmission, Suspension, Steering, Brakes (Basic) SEME Dec. 1985 SEME V1/14-TA Transmission, Suspension, Steering, Brakes (Basic) SEME Dec. 1985 SEME V1/14 Transmissions Technology - Basic - Part 1. Apr.1998 SEME V1/14 Transmissions Technology - Basic - Part 2. Apr.1998 SEME SARACEN Undated SEME CVR(T) Chapter 3. The Generating System. SEME Solex 40 NNIP Carburettor fitted to Rolls Royce 'B' Series Engines. undated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robin craig Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 Clive are any of those available anywhere to be purchased as a copy. The first one in your list on the Ferret is my obvious ask. I may have some trades from my end, I will have to go look Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fv1609 Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 Robin many of these are endorsed to the effect that the précis may be retained by the student. I have many with a student's name on them, so one would think there would a lot of these out there. However many are endorsed that when leaving the Army they should be handed into their unit for destruction. I think there were two reasons for this. Document security & the emphasis that the documents are for training & not to be used in the field where the relevant EMER/AESP carries the authority & will be up to date. So these days very few of these turn up. Sellers of military books in general do not see any value or prestige in selling them I'm afraid. I will be doing a sweep of the military sections of all the booksellers in Hay on Wye in a few days. But I doubt that I will find anything useful, it is hard enough finding official Army/WO coded publications. Certain sellers ask what is my period of interest? Napoleonic? WW1? WW2? They are rather taken back when I explain any period is of interest on any subject other than guns, medals & uniforms! Thereafter I am not regarded as a serious collector of military books, how dare they! I just seek official publications not memoirs & people's opinions as to how they would have better orchestrated a military campaign from their armchair some years later. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym Posted June 22, 2022 Share Posted June 22, 2022 There is/was a seller at W&P who used to have an interesting selection of SEME publications. I can't remember his name but think he may have been responsible for writing some of them in the first place. It would be nice to know if there was such a thing as a SEME library that held reference copies of all their publications. Another thing to check when I finally manage to organise a trip to Lyneham? Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fv1609 Posted June 22, 2022 Share Posted June 22, 2022 Andy it was Roger Jones who sadly died recently. Hence my "Thanks to Roger" reference earlier on in this thread about having the originals from which copies were printed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fv1609 Posted June 22, 2022 Share Posted June 22, 2022 In order to identify a pattern for SEME document codes I have updated the list in my collection. But it seems rather erratic in structure with the earliest documents attributed to the Army School of Transport, MT Wing, Bordon and School of Electronic Engineering REME. SEE REME Precis No.596 Saladin, Saracen & Ferret Electrical Systems. Feb.1965 Precis No.128 MT Wing, RCT Division, General Mechanical Principles 1965-1971 Precis No.30-50 MT Wing General Electrical & Mechanical Principles July 1970 SEME CVR(T) Chapter 3. The Generating System. SEME EI Note No.91/BG Electrical Instruments SEME GEW/EL/7 FV Pattern Electrical Equipment. Apr.1978 SEME G3/017 Batteries & Charging. Oct. 1981 SEME G3/032 FV432 Mk 1 Electrical Systems. Mar. 1981 SEME G3/032 FV432 Mk 1 Electrical Systems. Jan. 1988 SEME G3/033 FV Pattern Electrical Equipment (Whld ‘A’) Sep.1979 SEME G3/034 CVR(T) Scorpion Electrical Systems. Mar.1984 SEME ??????? CVR(T) & CVR(W) Electrical Systems SEME G3/052 AC Vehicle Charging Systems Oct.1982 SEME G3/051 'B' Vehicle Electrical Systems. Oct. 1980 SEME Lecture Precis Elect/11 Ignition Sep.1962 SEME Lecture Precis Elect/18 Cross – Field Generators Sep.1962 SEME PM 1849 Handout on the Coil Ignition System. Undated SEME PR 265 Ver.2 Land Rover Oct.2004 SEME Precis CVR(T) Automotive SEME SARACEN Undated SEME Solex 40 NNIP Carburettor fitted to Rolls Royce 'B' Series Engines. undated SEME VEW/BW/ENG TECH Engine Technology SEME V1/03 Petrol Engine Technology for Vehicle Mechanic Initial Students. Jul.1982 SEME V1/14 Transmission, Suspension, Steering, Brakes (Basic) SEME Dec. 1985 SEME V1/14-TA Transmission, Suspension, Steering, Brakes (Basic) SEME Dec. 1985 SEME V1/14 Ver.3 Transmissions Technology - Basic - Part 1. Apr.1998 SEME V1/14 PR 38 Ver.3 Transmissions Technology - Basic - Part 2. Apr.1998 SEME V1/39 Electronic Ignition. Feb.1991 SEME V2/08 Ferret Scout Car Mk 1 & 2. Mar.1986 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 Thanks Clive, I wondered about the "Roger" reference. I'll look out my collection when I next have a chance, I think I have several you haven't listed. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robin craig Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 Andy do you collect SEME precis manuals? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 On 6/23/2022 at 12:12 PM, robin craig said: Andy do you collect SEME precis manuals? Not as such, Robin, but I'll grab ones relevant to my vehicles and occasionally other ones that interest me. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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