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Foden FH70 refurb restoration


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On 3/14/2021 at 8:13 PM, Motleyholt said:

I've got two of these Andy, 2 male 1 female?

The female has been chewed up and has popped off but I think I can fit one of the spare good ones from the cables and swage the end back over.

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I'd have to measure them up to see, which won't be for a couple of months I'm afraid - the Abbot is in Cornwall and I'm in Portsmouth!

Andy

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Posted (edited)

More progress has been made if you can call taking a fuctioning truck and reducing it to a pile of parts progress!

Some hoses have been cut and the pipes cleaned ready to be refitted.

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Some shiny new bits arrived

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The cable for the headlights even has the right size fitting but the conduit is slightly smaller diameter than the original. But it looks correct and you would have to look close to notice.

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Have also removed the drivers side heater box for repair. Two control cables, two motor wires and three hoses need to be disconnected first. This was made easier by someone in the past snapping the hoses.

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After that there are four m6 bolts going through into the foot well.  Theses are behind the trim/insulation inside which is glued to the bulkhead. Vents were removed and it was carefully peeled off.

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The bolts all came undone which was a surprise.

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Doesn't look too bad until you turn it over......

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Stripped it down this evening. I find that a few sharp taps with a small hammer on the screws along with a combination of a hack saw and a pick to clean out the screw slots is enough to get them out. A couple of pork pie screws needed mole grips to crack them free. And of course lots of penetrating oil. This leaves you with another pile of bits.

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The next step will be to sand blast it all clean and see what's left.

To be continued....

 

Edited by Motleyholt
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13 hours ago, andym said:

Probably worth getting the heater matrix checked over by a radiator firm while you've got it in bits?

Andy

The matrix is the best bit, no signs of damage, corrosion or leaking. And it will get a thorough clean inside and then a while hooked up to a pressure tester. The truck hasn't covered many miles so most of its issues are from lack of use and age. Sheet metal work will undoubtedly consume the lions share of the time. I haven't poked the cab too much yet as I would like to get her road legal. And whilst the underseal is hiding inevitable weak bits I will get it through the ministry test to get it registered. Although one of the DVSA testers thinks I'll need to book an IVA to get it on the system so it can be tested. Will speak to them this week to get the current official prcedure.

But first I'll need to finish the prep work to be test ready. The hoses and pipes all went back on today.

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The thermostat housing had to come off to replace the hose to the heads. Just four bolts to undo, two of which had the worst fitting washers. A size too big for the bolts. The thermostats were nice and grubby.

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Gave them a clean up, made a new gasket and the found the hose to be replaced is the only one that's not two inch. A rummage in the bits box found a piece that will do the job until a new bit arrives. As it hasn't got a permanant home it's got to stay mobile. The heater circuit has been bypassed so I can get both the heater boxes restored. And a new breather pipe fitted, the nice stainless braided one. Not quite OE but until I find an equivalent to the original it will work nicely. 

Filled it up with some fresh coolant and had a little fun going backwards and foward,  even got up to third gear!

Apologies for the lack of pics but I forgot to charge my phone. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
Posted (edited)

This week I've been giving the truck a bit of a service. Might cut down the smoke levels a bit!

It was a cold day just after it arrived.

Simple job, warm up the engine. Cut the lock wire on the sump plug and drain the oil, be ready with a big container as you will be catching 30 litres of oil. Then whilst the sump is draining undo the filter bolts and catch another couple of litres of oil.

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At least I know it's been serviced at least once in its 40 years as it was misassembled. Also had a bonus washer and seal for good measure! Clean all the parts.

 

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Check the engine service book for the correct order.

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Fill with oil and refit, using the new sealing washers. Refit the sump plug and re-wire. Fill up with nice fresh oil.

Next remove the fuel sediment bowl on the chassis for a good clean. This definately hasn't been off, completely sealed with paint.

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Not a pretty sight inside. Plenty of water and built up corrosion and sludge. 30 minutes of cleaning and paint removal and now you can see through the glass.

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New seals from a standard CAV filter fitted and it's all back together. Unfortunately I couldn't free the plastic drain screw. I'll let it soak in the now clean fuel and see if I can get hold of one so I can replace it if it snaps.

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The filter proper is on the side of the engine and a modern screw on type.

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Apart from being mounted upside down to maximise the mess it's a five minute job to fit. Thoroughly prime the system with the lift pump as the last thing you need to be doing is bleeding the pump and injectors. Start it up and check for oil and fuel leaks. Another job done.

Apart from that I've started the sand blasting of the heater box in the sand blast cabinet. One of the best tools to have for rust and paint removal. Its the first proper restoration job.

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A few small holes but nothing too serious on the side panel. Will work through the rest of the parts this week. Awaiting a paint delivery so it can be made good for another 40 years.

That's all for this installment. 

Edited by Motleyholt
Missed a pic
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Posted (edited)

Rebuilt the main body of the first heater box today, firstly scraped and peeled off the foam seals and then blasted it clean.

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The fragile bits were clearly revealed.

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The spot welds were drilled out and the rotten bits separated. 

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The Base section is straight foward, just a rectangle of 1mm steel sheet with 3 bends. So some sheet was marked out.

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Cut.

And folded. 

It was a bit slow as I was trying to hold the phone steady and operate one handed.

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Test fitted.

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Next was the small rusted section on the top.

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I decided to repair this part by just replacing the edge. Cut off the edge with the angle grinder, cut a strip of steel, folded it and attached with plug welds.

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Next filled some of the pin holes on the side of the casing. Simple trick is to cut a small piece of sheet and lay it behind the holes. Then plug weld the holes, the sheet will avoid making big holes in thin steel. Then simply grind off the backing metal off.

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Then straighten all the edges, punch holes and weld it all back together.

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A bit more prep then ready for priming, high build priming, to hide some of the pitting and top coating. 

Blast and paint all the other parts. Then do it all again for the second heater.

I need to source some adhesive backed foam to make all the seals too.

A satisfying afternoon.

Edited by Motleyholt
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10 hours ago, Motleyholt said:

I need to source some adhesive backed foam to make all the seals too.

Screwfix sell 13mm wide x 10mm foam tape Like This

Otherwise I have used this company and found them pretty good: Rubber and Sponge, They do a wide range and were cheapest when I last looked

I second what Marvin says about using copper as a backing.

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On 4/3/2021 at 5:55 AM, marvinthemartian said:

I use copper as a backing for welding small holes, as the weld doesn't stick, and you get a fairly flush finish that won't need much flatting. 

Thanks I will try that on the next box. I should have got the little mig out of the van but I was being lazy and using the big mig in the workshop. It's a bit heavy handed for thin sheet but in pulse mode it can just about do it.

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22 hours ago, pc1959 said:

Screwfix sell 13mm wide x 10mm foam tape Like This

Otherwise I have used this company and found them pretty good: Rubber and Sponge, They do a wide range and were cheapest when I last looked

I second what Marvin says about using copper as a backing.

Thanks you, I'll look them up tonight whilst I'm ordering some paint.

What are people's views on paints? Go with a more old fashioned or modern two pack? They appeared to have been rather stingy with the paint at the factory, there is next to no paint behind the front cab corners, no signs of primer either. The heater boxes were hammerited then sprayed over DBG once assembled to the cab. I would like to give the parts a decent life expectancy after I've rebuilt them. So any advice would be greatly appreciated.

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On the filter front, I've dismantled a large number of those types with separate elements over the years, and I don't think I've ever found one with the correct combination of springs and washers in the correct order!

Andy

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6 hours ago, andym said:

On the filter front, I've dismantled a large number of those types with separate elements over the years, and I don't think I've ever found one with the correct combination of springs and washers in the correct order!

Andy

I think it's a British thing, just take all the parts you have mix them up, take a couple out, add some extras and bung it back together. I don't believe much has been done on my Foden since it was built due to the milage it has or rather hasn't covered. Yet it amazes me the half hearted way in which it was put together. Possibly a sign of the times in the late seventies with industrial unrest etc. It's a good design, probably quite advanced in its day with air brakes and air operated transfer box and so on. It's just not got the attention to detail that we all now expect. I have no idea what they cost new but I'm sure it wasn't cheap.

Anyway after some gardening and diy I took it for a drive around the farm now it's dried up on the ground. Got to know the gearbox a little better and found its still a bit sticky on the range change. I'll change the oil and see if it helps. It definately improved as it warmed up. Apologies for the un edited footage and my joy at a smooth gear change.

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I also suspect that people just don't read the maintenance manuals ("If all else fails ..")  I've found mistakes in the FV432 manuals that have followed into those for the Bulldog, so either no-one has reported them or no-one read the manuals in the first place!

Andy

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18 minutes ago, andym said:

I also suspect that people just don't read the maintenance manuals ("If all else fails ..")  I've found mistakes in the FV432 manuals that have followed into those for the Bulldog, so either no-one has reported them or no-one read the manuals in the first place!

Andy

My neighbour who was in the Army, not sure exactly which regiment but was responsible for the motor pool told me yesterday he always preferred to use the civie version of the manual as the Mod ones were hopeless we were talking about land rover to be honest 

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I've just found some photos of the conduit bits I need for my Abbot if any of yours suit?  These are slightly larger than the usual ones on the rear of headlamps.  I'm OK for the conduit itself, just need the end fittings.

Andy

 

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4 hours ago, jpsmit said:

Looks like a speedometer cable end could work. 

Interesting, I hadn't thought of that.  I'd still love to know who the OEM was, though.

Andy

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8 hours ago, andym said:

I've just found some photos of the conduit bits I need for my Abbot if any of yours suit?  These are slightly larger than the usual ones on the rear of headlamps.  I'm OK for the conduit itself, just need the end fittings.

Andy

I'll have a look on the spare cab and bits of chassis. If I find any I'll let you know.

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19 hours ago, andym said:

Interesting, I hadn't thought of that.  I'd still love to know who the OEM was, though.

Andy

I found a bagged nos conduit from a 430 marked  "ICORE International, Slough."

Hope that help !

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I think that it is all to the FVRDE design and has not changed much since the days of the Conqueror immediately post war.

Does anyone know what the threads are?

 

John

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22 hours ago, Motleyholt said:

I'll have a look on the spare cab and bits of chassis. If I find any I'll let you know.

Had a look this afternoon and have only got the smaller fittings, sorry.

Haven't had much playtime this week, just a bit of blasting and priming.

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Hopefully be more progress next week.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Update night, several more jobs either completed or progressed. Some time ago I ordered the original type of alternator belt, it's a tripple v belt all in one. The engine manual states either a 3v belt or 4 individual matched belts. The original belt is an odd length and I would have needed to order 10 as a minimum order! So I opted for the next size up as the safest option as there is plenty of adjustment. In hindsight I could have gone the next size down but it works fine and there is adjustment left.

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Next was to change the oil in the second part of the gearbox that deals with high, low and overdrive. It has a habit of sticking between ranges leaving you looking a bit silly with the engine revving freely before it decides to select.

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It was a bit mucky inside. I think it should be a heavy and probably a straight grade. Once I have the manual digitised I'll know for sure. As a temporary flush I've put in an ep 80w90 basic grade incase there is anything intolerant in there. 

Next was to strip out the second heater box.

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Oddly the heaters are different on each side. One side has a single control flap inside and the other a double. My donor cab has exactly the same set up. So either they have both been replaced or that's how they were built?

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And the other side...

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It's now stripped and awaiting the blasting treatment. 

Next was to replace the degraded wiring harness to the with the part from xmod.

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I decided to swap the wires inside for the larger originals. I regreted this almost imediately, the new conduit was slightly smaller than original. A draw wire and a spot of rubber grease made it work. It had to be trimmed to the right length and a some heat shrink fitted to hold the end together.

Lastly a headlight upgrade to make driving a little easier should I find myself out after dark. Some wipac halogen headlights were purchased. Fairly straight foward to fit just time consuming. Originally the outer headlight is dip beam and both operate for main. An extra wire was added to allow both to operate dip and main.

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More fighting with conduit fittings, all eventually gave up with a little warmth and round jaw grips. The original headlamps and bulb harnesses were re-homed in the stores for a future restoration if someone wants it totally original.  I know you concourse restorers are out there.

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Again a bit of variety where one lamp had been replaced.

Then make up new harnesses for halogen H4 bulbs.

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Crimped and soldered for reliability.

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And assemble.

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Only managed to get two back in as they are a bit fiddly to get all the rubbers back in with the headlights straight.

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Two to go tomorrow.  Once it's on the road they will all be stripped fully for a re-paint. Three are solid and one is starting to rust around the mounting. The rusty one appears to be the replacement. In the meantime a coating of wax spray will keep them sound. Just need to align them now.

Hopefully the next installment will be refitting the heaters and reassembling the cab.

 

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Martin,

 

I am not certain but I recall something about it not being OK to have both dipped headlights running when on dipped.  If so, that might cause a problem on MOT.  You could just disconnect it for the test!  I am not sure of the reason why for the rule.  It is counter intuitive as surely such an arrangement would reduce the chances of one side of vehicle having no headlight lit. 

Others may know more about this!

 

John

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Martin,

 

I am not certain but I recall something about it not being OK to have both dipped headlights running when on dipped.  If so, that might cause a problem on MOT.  You could just disconnect it for the test!  I am not sure of the reason why for the rule.  It is counter intuitive as surely such an arrangement would reduce the chances of one side of vehicle having no headlight lit. 

Others may know more about this!

 

John

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11 minutes ago, attleej said:

Martin,

 

I am not certain but I recall something about it not being OK to have both dipped headlights running when on dipped.  If so, that might cause a problem on MOT.  You could just disconnect it for the test!  I am not sure of the reason why for the rule.  It is counter intuitive as surely such an arrangement would reduce the chances of one side of vehicle having no headlight lit. 

Others may know more about this!

 

John

Absolutely correct John, I ran in to this with the S26 when it seemed like a good idea in case of failures but it is actually illegal.

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