GHQ MEF - unusual vehicle markings?

[Simon Warner]

I wonder if anyone can help shed light on these vehicle markings for GHQ Middle East Forces please? The attached photo shows vehicle id plates which were in place in March 1942 on 15 cwt soft skin vehicles attached to GHQ MEF - Cairo (three photos are of a Bedford MWD). The camel (yellow on black background) is GHQ MEF and the white bar denotes GHQ vehicle. You can see that there are two iterations of this sign in that one has the camel painted as part of the lower diagonally divided sign whereas others show it above and on the black background.

I am trying to identify the '461' and also the colours of the diagonally divided part of the sign.

Some clues: The serviceman who drove these vehicles and who took the photos was at the time '4 company 3rd Air Formation Signals' I can find nothing that relates to the diagonally divided sign other than a mention that some vehicles early in the war had a diagonally divided white over dark blue DR sign. Confusing though as the top section does not appear white when viewed against the white GHQ bar. The numbers 461 I think are most likely red? The bridging plate doesn't help since the plate will be yellow but the '5' does not look as black when compared to the black background of the camel.The vehicle was Despatch Rider Letter Service and the person from whom the photos came was a Despatch Rider in the RCoSignals. Elsewhere on the vehicles (not in the photo) can be seen the white over mid-blue sign for the DR service and then on the rear of some vehicles were the same horizontally divided white over blue DR type sign but with a black silhouette of a Blenheim bomber. This I believe relates to 'Air Formation Signals'

I think these are early versions of signage before it became more standardised? Certainly the sign I have described with the Black Blenheim was scoffed at by the RCoS museum until I showed them a photograph. Up until that time they insisted that the sign was light blue over green with a centre dark blue band and that the aircraft silhouette was red. 

I'm only a beginner at trying to decipher these vehicle markings so please, any help or pointers to identifying the '461' or the colours would be most gratefully received!

[simon king]

No answers I’m afraid, but the way the white bar appears in some of those photos seems to indicate that it might have been painted over the original diagonal halved square at a later date which could explain the colour variation.

Theoretically the only diagonal halved AoS square was the RASC red/ green, but perhaps this is actually the suggested blue/white with red numbering as other units in the  460 series are also signals units. Could it just a be a case of misinterpreting the wording of the regulations with regard to the positioning of the colours on the square?. Wouldn’t be the first time a signwriter has screwed up , juxtaposing AoS and formation signs etc etc

465 was 4 Air Formation Signals

468 was Det ME Pigeon Service

Edited January 28, 2021 by simon king
Added known 460 series units

[Simon Warner]

1 hour ago, simon king said:

No answers I’m afraid, but the way the white bar appears in some of those photos seems to indicate that it might have been painted over the original diagonal halved square at a later date which could explain the colour variation.

Theoretically the only diagonal halved AoS square was the RASC red/ green, but perhaps this is actually the suggested blue/white with red numbering as other units in the  460 series are also signals units. Could it just a be a case of misinterpreting the wording of the regulations with regard to the positioning of the colours on the square?. Wouldn’t be the first time a signwriter has screwed up , juxtaposing AoS and formation signs etc etc

465 was 4 Air Formation Signals

468 was Det ME Pigeon Service

Thank you Simon, that's interesting info.The mention of the white / blue with red lettering came from wikipedia and is related to NW Europe 1944-5 so possibly a red herring. I think you may be on the right track when you say about the bar being added later. It could of course be 'repainting' of the bar? I wonder also how much the lighter colours changed due to 1. Dust / dirt and 2. Fading due to the intense sunlight (I have other photos from this set which show vehicle tyres being kept covered due to the heat ). Looking for example at the bridging plates the number 5 looks very faded - one could believe it wasn't black but I can find no mention anywhere of them ever (during this period) being other than 'Black on Golden Yellow'If you look at the photo that's not an MW (not sure what it is) it looks as though the bottom bar is not white but white/blue? I thought this was the effect of a shadow but another photo suggests otherwise - agin though, not something mentioned elsewhere.

Where did you find the info on the 465/468 46o series AoS numbers please?

 

[simon king]

The Royal  Signals AoS blue/white with red numbering was introduced in mid 1941. Information on MEF unit numbers came from the sacred British Military Markings 1939 - 1945 by Hodges and Taylor

[Simon Warner]

23 minutes ago, simon king said:

The Royal  Signals AoS blue/white with red numbering was introduced in mid 1941. Information on MEF unit numbers came from the sacred British Military Markings 1939 - 1945 by Hodges and Taylor

 

23 minutes ago, simon king said:

The Royal  Signals AoS blue/white with red numbering was introduced in mid 1941. Information on MEF unit numbers came from the sacred British Military Markings 1939 - 1945 by Hodges and Taylor

Thanks Simon