Under seal verses Waxoil

[LarryH57]

Reading Clive's comment on another post, has made me consider which is best for stopping rust on my MV? Under seal or Waxoil 

Your thoughts

[Nick Johns]

definatly Not underseal, it actually can enhance corrosion by trapping water moisture against the metal

[LarryH57]

I wonder why underseal is still marketed then?

[ruxy]

Proper  "underseal"  contained asbestos  ,   this more or less ceased to be available abt. very early 1980's    Then the  in name  Ziebart  appeared ,  franchise treatment centres ISTR for full warranty the car had to be under 3 years old.   Dinitrol seems to have a good name ,  Black WAXOYL  is just anothe similar  (expensive)  "Shultz"  a name that crept in after - underseal.     Actually  -  Ex-MOD Land Rovers where the underseal hit received good protection , the top of the chassis hardly received any and as soon as the chassis enamel failed water entered & rust crept down. Also such as the rear cross-member was difficult , too many mud-traps.     I used to buy boxes of Shultz from a factor &  quite a good gun was thrown in ,  by slightly wrong air pressure & wrong spray distance you can replicate a underseal messy finish on chassis & inner wings where it shows on a LWT.    The bulk of the chassis - I prefer a good double-header of machinery enamel  such as Tractol (oil & fuel resistant after 1 month when through dry). Black full gloss with a touch of base matting seems to work best for Ex-works.   The next one I do - probably I will  not use Shultz at all and just use black  "Stone Chip"  PAINT -  this is a plastic thick paint , that you can ripple effect with a heavy coat to just the alloy inner wings where seen , you can re-black this with most paint , Shultz won't take paint as it is a semi-solid oil with waxes - the better stuff has de-watering properties.  Shultz can be scraped off - not chiseled off like underseal - I actually use not so blunt wood chisels  LoL.

Years ago - if the underseal had not dried out , I used to de-rust small areas as needed and use a cheap black 'chassis-paint'  this was sold by the gall. it was just bitumen paint & used on commercial vehicles / trailers as a glam. job prep for prior to , testing,  some second hand car sales also used to do this.

 

Edited August 26, 2020 by ruxy
spelin

[Diana and Jackie]

Dinitrol

[ruxy]

4 minutes ago, Diana and Jackie said:

Dinitrol

Yes,   1986  -  I can't remember exactly ,,  think it was Dinitrol rather than a Ziebart franchisee took a small factory unit at my home town (Barnard Castle) they supplied the new Nissan factory at Sunderland ,  ISTR  - cavity wax injection to sills.   Been inside the original Finnegans Hammerite Nissen hut sheds @ Prudhoe  + the new factory that has had a few top name owners.  Finnegans in those days was mail order or collection only.    Still have a unused sample tin of Finnegans  "Corroles"   =  been inside 3 firms that will knock you up "Corroless"  glass flake technology .   In my days before the mast - the lascars used to stir up  genuine red lead powder with fish oil/linseed oil in a 45 gall oil drum with a spade.   Well proven anti-corrosive - just it was only then done outside territorial limits  !

[johann morris]

Clear wax oil every time, then you can see what's happening under it. I have seen instances where black wax oil or other coloured products have been used, they look good but if they get chipped moisture gets under the coating and the material that you were trying to protect corrodes without you realising.

 

Jon

[ruxy]

28 minutes ago, johann morris said:

Clear wax oil every time, then you can see what's happening under it. I have seen instances where black wax oil or other coloured products have been used, they look good but if they get chipped moisture gets under the coating and the material that you were trying to protect corrodes without you realising.

 

Jon

The last 5 years of Lightweight production  -  HG  KA  KB  KC  KD   were not undersealed ,  most owners prefer the textured black look applied to the open wheelarch area.  If undersealed - I leave as/is  intact and just re-black.     Aesthetics  ,   I quite like the visible NATO green  - I have two HG like that,  and to me originality is important so I leave those - I have several +   LWT's.   Most are KB / KC  all direct MOD sales to me and they are black painted within wheel arches (some parts flaking in sheets) - possibly over factory wax never steam cleaned off correctly)  -  no idea whom applied the black paint - seems brushed on.

Edited August 26, 2020 by ruxy
spelin

[jenkinov]

A few years ago we were approached and asked if we wanted to buy a classic car .when the garage was opened we saw this gleaming car and thought our luck was in.we reinstated the tyres and pushed the car into the light and I got underneath to look..the whole car was undercoated in bitumen and looked good . I reached under and grabbed the chassis and to my shock was able to crush the chassis with my hand with modest pressure ..

The bitumen had disguised the dust which had eaten the car away ..I now use tourist on active rust and then a good paint with grease on springs cables etc and clear wangle so corrosion is visible?

Jenkinov

[jenkinov]

That should have read kurust on visible rust .grease on cables springs etc and clear waxoyle ...I

Jenkinov

 

 

 

[LarryH57]

At Halfords, I have just seen that they sell underseal with Waxoil in it, made by Hammerite. Is this the best of both worlds then, and nothing like the underseal of 40 years ago? Worth buying to match / replace existing stuff?

[ruxy]

Land Rover chassis are not that thick , I always descale and use a good primer / chassis enamel , watch for trouble then spot treat.   I have tried all sorts & don't rate WaxOil , I think it is expensive for what it is.  Inside box sections - I mist out using a paraffin gun using pale spindle oil / light hydraulic oil then follow up later with a viscous grade of Shell Ensis fluid (the original several grades are now much reduced).   Externally - for a 'holding operation'   -   I would use a rope dressing ,  have used Revol but plenty of other makes & it comes in clear or bitumastic black.     Don't think I have used this one  -  Wire Rope BMG-S – based on Wire Rope BMG with a solvent for dewatering and penetration properties , having a searcher & dewatering - should hold out well on light rust.   Trade suppliers should be selling cheaper than Hammerite stuff.   

http://www.revol.co.uk/products-8.html

The problem you may find is that if you start removing rust to white metal , then you may find battery rust pitting & penetration.

Hammerite products are more aimed at DIY market with top $ profit margins. 

Preping a LR chassis - you have to work within a "time-frame" and there are few short cuts.    I have industrial m Von Arx needle scalers , but only use them at certain positions with supplementary fine bunches of needles.  If the chassis paint/ primer is still sound - shot blasting takes time to remove it - so I just sweep blast it to give grip to the tie-coat.   I avoid heavy rusted chassis because in the main I work fastest on the top & near weld runs with carbide insert tipped engineers scrapers / drag scrapers  =  mechanical descaling , I never use any powered abrasive tool - if care not taken you will remove metal as well as rust and it is not so thick as to be sacrificial.

 

Edited August 27, 2020 by ruxy
spelin

[matchlesswdg3]

I use ACF50 although that is not a permanent fix and needs to be re-applied.  AND it is expensive, but I find its good for holding trouble spots at bay.  Great on motorcycles for that oily rag finish.

 

[ruxy]

10 minutes ago, matchlesswdg3 said:

I use ACF50 although that is not a permanent fix and needs to be re-applied.  AND it is expensive, but I find its good for holding trouble spots at bay.  Great on motorcycles for that oily rag finish.

 

Yes , agreed    ACF50  is a bit special among the rest.    I spent 30 years as a field inspection supervisor (rotating equipment) for a number of oil majors  + crane test engineer on up to the biggest in the years I was involved .  So came across claims of all sorts of paints & anti-corrosion performance testing.

[jenkinov]

I.Will add ACF50 to my list...I think the key is regular inspections for that and treat /kill the dust  asap then protect and monitor the area....

Jenkinov