Headlamp Identification

[Scrunt & Farthing]

Can anyone shed any light on what model this headlamp may be?  It is as fitted by Leyland to their 1920s buses and lorries. 

At a guess I would imagine it is a Lucas, but since Lucas used a bewildering array of part numbers (about 48 pages worth by 1937 according to a catalogue I have (for cars)) it is hard to guess.  They are described by Leyland as 24 watt.

And, just as importantly if you have been sitting on a pair of these awaiting just the sort eager chap to come along convert them into beer tokens for you please PM me.

Cheers, Dave. (S&F)

Edited July 5, 2020 by Scrunt & Farthing

[mammoth]

I would expect them to be CAV which at some stage was bought out by Lucas but maintained it's identity as the supplier for commercial vehicles. This in the era when they had the 'ears' same as acetylene lamps and could thus be retrofitted.

[Citroman]

Send a mail here they must know.

https://vintage-headlamp-restoration.co.uk/

[8_10 Brass Cleaner]

I had a pair that resembled that, steel bowls with the stirrup mount rivetted in, Ali bezel.

I sold them to Alan Eatwell to go on his S type Foden (diesel).

There are a lot of different sizes, CAV and Lucas tend to be identical from about 1929ish as Lucas bought CAV. And ML and various other electrical firms.

[Scrunt & Farthing]

Thanks Hedd, I think the much earlier CAV headlamps were more bell shaped.  As you say Lucas acquired CAV and Rotax in 1926.   

I am interested in point your about different sizes.  I had naively assumed that there was a limited range of stirrup sizes, say 8,9 and 12 inch that were commonly agreed upon (a sort of industry standard).   I had not considered they may vary between manufacturer.  Since I don't have the stirrups it is academic - when you find me some, I will make brackets to suit. 🙂 

Dave (S&F)

[8_10 Brass Cleaner]

No, Dave you misunderstand, the stirrups are a industry standard, or rather 2 standards. Side and Head. But that type of lamp, steel bowl, ali rims, there are a number of different diameter lamps. The ones I had were apparently smaller than ones Fitted to a Sentinel, so that market wasn't mad interested. Alan Eatwell saw the big picture, the rarity, and the quality of the product and paid full asking price unseen!. 

My view with your restoration is that provided you put some period stirrup mounted lamps on it, there isn't many about who know enough to pick holes with it. In anycase the lighting may well have been an option, or indeed purchaser fitted.

The ali rim commercial lamps are actually much rarer than the car equivalents in brass. That said the market is such that despite being rarer they are not that many punters who want to buy them, whearas the easier to find large car equivalents (usually brass bowl, brass rim) are easier to sell, both to the actual large vintage car - market, but also to those making Mk6 Bentleys look like 4 1/2 litre Birkin Jobs.

They are all a much of a muchness price wise. I got over £600 for my pair nearly 10 years ago, but they were ready to fit, reslivered etc.

I notice there is a nice pair of ali rimmed Smiths lamps wanting a bit of work here, and don't look out of the way in price terms.

https://www.prewarcar.com/168967-smiths-headlights-for-a-variety-of-british-cars , but they do appear to be in New Zealand!.

[Scrunt & Farthing]

Ah,  I see your point. Thanks Hedd.    I had seen the ones on pre-war car.  It is a shame that Hans Compter in NZ is about as far from the Scrunt and Farthing Scrap Lorry Works as it is possible to be without actually leaving Earth.    He does have some nice stuff, including a good range of Leyland shaped magnetos.

Dave

[Ian McConville]

I have a pair of CAV lamps that look similar to the photo. Nameplate has R.L.H K 803 and they are 7" inside the aluminium rim. One has a broken lens that is branded SMITHS. If you are still interested I can send photos. Location, Australia.

[lynx42 Rick Cove]

G'day Ian, Welcome to HMVF it's about time you got into something green. Cheers Rick.

[Scrunt & Farthing]

On 6/30/2021 at 4:51 AM, Ian McConville said:

I have a pair of CAV lamps that look similar to the photo. Nameplate has R.L.H K 803 and they are 7" inside the aluminium rim. One has a broken lens that is branded SMITHS. If you are still interested I can send photos. Location, Australia.

Hi Ian,  welcome to the forum.  It is the best and most well run forum that I have been on, and a wide range of vehicles (or piles of scrap in my case).   Wherabouts in Oz are you?  We used to get over, but only to WA which still has a lot of relics up at places like Whiteman Park etc.  But the flat got sold so we don't make that journey anymore.  

Thanks for the ID on the lamp, I think you have rightly identified them with a number which is what I had be looking for.  I would very interested to see photos of them.  Its dead easy to post the pic, just pop it in the box marked choose files.   

All the best, mate.

Dave

[mammoth]

Ian's lights are now allocated to a Leyland hard rubber resto. Any further information on these would be most welcome.

 

Edited July 5, 2021 by mammoth

[Richard Farrant]

I do not think that the Smith Lens have anything to do with Smiths in the UK, who made speedometers and other auto parts. They were probably made by a US company, L.E. Smith who produced the first headlamp lens for the Ford Model T, here is a history of the company;

https://www.carnivalglassworldwide.com/l-e-smith-story.html