starlite Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 Hi all, not holding much chance of any major shows this year was on the sniff for an L4 Bren, anyone have one for sale or know who might let one go ideally a correct type not a made up one to finish off my display please pm me. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REME 245 Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 https://www.dandbmilitaria.com/deactivated-guns-and-antique-firearms/machine-guns-launchers/post-ww2/deactivated-l4a3-bren-lmg-sn-762b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starlite Posted May 12, 2020 Author Share Posted May 12, 2020 yep seen those think they are Re-builds, looking for an original as possible. thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
43rdrecce Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 Aren't all L4s rebuilds? I think only some of the the Indian ones were new manufacture. What is it you are looking for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 Perhaps he means not a "bitza" made from spare parts? Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starlite Posted May 12, 2020 Author Share Posted May 12, 2020 You got it Andy, The ones I have seen recently are made up from new parts and re-painted, but please correct me if I’m wrong. I remember some years ago a batch came in they were all original fit and finish, remember seeing them at W&P show Many years ago, don’t get me wrong the ones today look good, they just look to good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
43rdrecce Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 The ex Irish guns? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REME 245 Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 (edited) I believe a lot of Indian 7.62 guns were passed off as British ones some years ago but without looking at the part numbers its impossible to say if this is abitza or not, but clearly has a 7.62 Receiver and Barrel. Edited May 12, 2020 by REME 245 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REME 245 Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 Interesting is this the same Gun? https://www.gunhire.co.uk/hire-catalogue-gun-hire-film-prop-guns/british-l4-a3-light-machine-gun-7-62-cal-live-firing-2/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
43rdrecce Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 I believe these are made up from parts bought in bulk. However, it seems that few genuine L4s have ever been released. Maybe a 'bitsa' is the only option. Genuine L4A3s were RN weren't they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REME 245 Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 If MG37GA is the serial number its the same gun in each advert or false markings? I understand that the scrap yard in Trowbridge spent a week cutting these up with a Civil Servant watching them do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferretfixer Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 On 5/12/2020 at 11:58 PM, 43rdrecce said: I believe these are made up from parts bought in bulk. However, it seems that few genuine L4s have ever been released. Maybe a 'bitsa' is the only option. Genuine L4A3s were RN weren't they? Yes they were intended for the Royal marines. The A3 has a hold open device in the ejector block. They are converted from MK II Bren's. L4A4 SHOULD all be converted from Mk III Guns. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Hall Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 These aren’t made from spare parts, they are Interarms FTRd guns under MOD contract. The guns that were in factory original condition were sold by WWA about 5 years ago (original over seas sale) and I missed out (been looking for one since). The reference to being made from parts probably originated from the cancellation of the Interarms FTR programme (when the MOD decided to issue the GPMG to reserve units instead) and IA were told they could keep the guns. So they finished what they had and offered those for sale and sold the refinished parts to another well known dealer darn sarf who assembled what was left. The A3 is just an A4 built on a Mk2 body, not as common as the L4 but they were sold to many foreign countries. MG37GA is a drawing/part number of a L4A3. The Indian 7.62 guns are rarer than the British, I managed to find 2, a conversion in line with the L4A4 and the other a new build from a 7.62 body, this is much better than even a British L4A4. All Original L4s should have a barred out serial number and a new UExx Axxx serial number next to it, with the exception of about 500?? Guns made up on new, unused Mk3 .303 bodies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
43rdrecce Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 Chris, did any of the Interarms guns enter British service before the cancellation of the FTR programme then? I assume any that did went to the RN/RM, as I understand they were the only users of the L4A3. Are ex British guns few and far between? Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enfield1940 Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 9 minutes ago, 43rdrecce said: Are ex British guns few and far between? I believe almost all of them were scrapped sadly. This also explains why ex-British military Sterling SMGs are almost non-existent on the UK market. The ones you see for sale are commercial guns sold abroad in the past which have different markings and a different paint finish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Hall Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 45 minutes ago, 43rdrecce said: Chris, did any of the Interarms guns enter British service before the cancellation of the FTR programme then? I assume any that did went to the RN/RM, as I understand they were the only users of the L4A3. Are ex British guns few and far between? Paul No, the contract was terminated in favour of the GPMG but some went abroad and others deactivated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
43rdrecce Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 26 minutes ago, Enfield1940 said: I believe almost all of them were scrapped sadly. This also explains why ex-British military Sterling SMGs are almost non-existent on the UK market. The ones you see for sale are commercial guns sold abroad in the past which have different markings and a different paint finish. Seems that is the case. With the Sterling, as you say most have foreign contract serial numbers. Not sure about the paint though. The crackle paint was originally on early British Sterlings too. It was removed and replaced with Suncorite in the course of their service life on most if not all weapons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Hall Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 32 minutes ago, Enfield1940 said: I believe almost all of them were scrapped sadly. This also explains why ex-British military Sterling SMGs are almost non-existent on the UK market. The ones you see for sale are commercial guns sold abroad in the past which have different markings and a different paint finish. Unfortunately the UN agreement to which the UK is a member and signatory Decrees that military weapons are destroyed unless sold to a foreign government. So all the excess L4s, L2s, L1s and many others have been destroyed at Donnington. I’m sure there’s likely still many in war reserve as we’ve not got enough L85s (350,000??). The shameful thing is if you look at the current prices of EU deacs, the government could probably earn a few hundred pounds per item. And that much more than scrap. But Luckily some examples have passed into civilian ownership legally. Movie props, contractor repairs/replacements etc. but not many. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enfield1940 Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 32 minutes ago, 43rdrecce said: Not sure about the paint though. The crackle paint was originally on early British Sterlings too. It was removed and replaced with Suncorite in the course of their service life on most if not all weapons. My understanding is that the British military guns always had the smooth Suncorite over phosphate finish. However, some commercial spare parts with the crackle finish (e.g. end caps) were later on obtained by the MoD from Sterling and ended up on military guns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Hall Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 30 minutes ago, 43rdrecce said: Seems that is the case. With the Sterling, as you say most have foreign contract serial numbers. Not sure about the paint though. The crackle paint was originally on early British Sterlings too. It was removed and replaced with Suncorite in the course of their service life on most if not all weapons. British contract L2A3s only ever had a Sunc finish and have different markings to the commercial offerings. The serial numbers are also US or UF prefixed rather than the commercial KR or S prefix. Some MOD spares were salvaged from broken up commercial guns (because the commercial gun was not to UK spec) but I believe they were refinished to MOD spec. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Hall Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 2 minutes ago, Enfield1940 said: My understanding is that the British military guns always had the smooth Suncorite over phosphate finish. However, some commercial spare parts with the crackle finish (e.g. end caps) were later on obtained by the MoD from Sterling and ended up on military guns. I did have some Enfield made end caps that were salvaged from commercial Sterling’s and these sold on eBay for a very good price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REME 245 Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 (edited) Unless you know better I would be very surprised if the MOD store much of anything these days including weapons. The tatical docterine is that any major conflict would not last long plus it costs money to store anything in bulk. Edited May 22, 2020 by REME 245 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 My deac SMG has a KR prefix and a smooth finish. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
43rdrecce Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 1 hour ago, Chris Hall said: British contract L2A3s only ever had a Sunc finish and have different markings to the commercial offerings. The serial numbers are also US or UF prefixed rather than the commercial KR or S prefix. Some MOD spares were salvaged from broken up commercial guns (because the commercial gun was not to UK spec) but I believe they were refinished to MOD spec. Here is an interesting press photo from a sequence taken in 1972. Crackle finish paint on this L2A3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enfield1940 Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 43 minutes ago, andym said: My deac SMG has a KR prefix and a smooth finish. I believe KR is the pre-1971 commercial serial number prefix. Afterwards it was S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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